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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Stimulants Therapeutic doses of methylphenidate based drugs, amphetamine based drugs, and lithium plus seraquel

Juicewrldfan

Juicewrldfan

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Joined
Dec 10, 2022
Messages
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Okay-so before I wasn’t stable and didn’t realize how manic I was. Since then, I have found the perfect medicine regimen for my bipolar disorder. I am more stable than ever and never felt so clear minded and yet I still struggle with adhd. I lost yet another job and I just got it due to forgetting to hat I’m talking about mid sentence in meetings, looking like a airhead, and not completing tasks on time because well just being disorganized and stopping and starting different tasks etc.

So I go back to my adhd doctor tomorrow. This doctor will write basically whatever I ask just not the dosage or frequency. The type of med only.

I have tried the non-stimulant meds with no success due to either side effects or ineffectiveness.

A big benefit of lithium is it’s shown to greatly reduce euphoria from stimulants. I have seen people prescribed lithium and amps many times yet interactions show that there is a risk of SS. I am guessing that’s only in recreational doses?

I am trying to decide if I want a methylphenidate based drug or an amphetamine based drug not for recreational use but only therapeutic doses.

I am giving them to my wife for a safer measure but don’t till abuse them because I’m stable now. Still want to play it safe.

What is your experience with these meds? If you were in my shoes which would you prefer for therapeutic purposes?

I am going to give the meds one more shot while stable and medicated.
 
What drug works for you depends on you. I didn't respond to methylphenidate even with 36mg, 72mg doses without any tolerance so after 2 weeks my doc switched me to Vyvanse and been on stable 40mg for around 10 months now. I'd bet on long-acting amphetamines (Adderall XR or Vyvanse).

But if you really want, try Desoxyn. It's methamphetamine, legal in the US for ADHD (although not legal here in Canada). I found low-dose methamphetamine to be the best drug for ADHD. But the problem is people abuse it so it have a bad reputation as a result docs are reluctant to prescribe it. I never abused it. I weigh out 15mg crystal methamphetamine on capsules (do this for 30 doses) and take one every day (except weekends). I self-medicated like this for a few months until I saved up enough money to see a doc for ADHD.
 
Clonadine is something I would ASK YOUR DOCTOR ABOUT

Definitely ask for his expert opinion, don't take advice from randos online. But Clonadine paired with my amphetamine really walked back the intensity of the ADHD drug. However if I were your psychiatrist I'd probably try a stimulant like buproprion that isn't as agressive on monoamines and glutamate.

If YOUR DOCTOR doesn't think Clonadine is it, you may just have to keep trying stims or none stims that don't fuck with monoamines and glutamate as much. Actually Clonadine is prescribed on its own off label to treat ADHD
 
Juicewrldfan said:
Okay-so before I wasn’t stable and didn’t realize how manic I was. Since then, I have found the perfect medicine regimen for my bipolar disorder. I am more stable than ever and never felt so clear minded and yet I still struggle with adhd. I lost yet another job and I just got it due to forgetting to hat I’m talking about mid sentence in meetings, looking like a airhead, and not completing tasks on time because well just being disorganized and stopping and starting different tasks etc.

So I go back to my adhd doctor tomorrow. This doctor will write basically whatever I ask just not the dosage or frequency. The type of med only.

I have tried the non-stimulant meds with no success due to either side effects or ineffectiveness.

A big benefit of lithium is it’s shown to greatly reduce euphoria from stimulants. I have seen people prescribed lithium and amps many times yet interactions show that there is a risk of SS. I am guessing that’s only in recreational doses?

I am trying to decide if I want a methylphenidate based drug or an amphetamine based drug not for recreational use but only therapeutic doses.

I am giving them to my wife for a safer measure but don’t till abuse them because I’m stable now. Still want to play it safe.

What is your experience with these meds? If you were in my shoes which would you prefer for therapeutic purposes?

I am going to give the meds one more shot while stable and medicated.
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Also if he does prescribe clonadine remember to take it daily. It does have a rebound/withdrawal period that needs a taper down

en.m.wikipedia.org

Clonidine - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
ninjapirateroberts said:
What drug works for you depends on you. I didn't respond to methylphenidate even with 36mg, 72mg doses without any tolerance so after 2 weeks my doc switched me to Vyvanse and been on stable 40mg for around 10 months now. I'd bet on long-acting amphetamines (Adderall XR or Vyvanse).

But if you really want, try Desoxyn. It's methamphetamine, legal in the US for ADHD (although not legal here in Canada). I found low-dose methamphetamine to be the best drug for ADHD. But the problem is people abuse it so it have a bad reputation as a result docs are reluctant to prescribe it. I never abused it. I weigh out 15mg crystal methamphetamine on capsules (do this for 30 doses) and take one every day (except weekends). I self-medicated like this for a few months until I saved up enough money to see a doc for ADHD.
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He definitely can't take Desoxyn Adderal or VyvanDr. He has a history of taking nearly the entire bottle right away with drugs like that
 
I got no advice my man. I just want you to know I would reply to alot more of your posts; Id like to; I just have no expertise when actual mental health problems are present.

Most of the time I think people are over / mis diagnosed --- as the US will let you tell them your schizo and never really check because your asking for their product......its a shitshow. Makes helping ppl with real problems alot harder when 90% of the playbook is "ease up its not as bad as you think: if anything at all"
 
^Right. prolly better than what the doc has lined up? I find it very odd that I catch so many direct contradictions as a laymens. Like when they took a 70 yr old off all of her xanax she had been scripted since 16, than also her lyrica which was scripted TO stop seizures, as well as her Lamictal (which I THINK was also for seizures) than put her on olanzapine which lowers your seizure threshold.

I asked straight out, we trying to wack this lady or?? Seems like a bad plan...

*I suspect she had an opi problem to but will never know or care other than that also would up her chance of seizure if use suddenly ceased (and they sure as shit weren't given any out unscripted) on the floor.
 
smokeymcpot42088 said:
^Right. prolly better than what the doc has lined up? I find it very odd that I catch so many direct contradictions as a laymens. Like when they took a 70 yr old off all of her xanax she had been scripted since 16, than also her lyrica which was scripted TO stop seizures, as well as her Lamictal (which I THINK was also for seizures) than put her on olanzapine which lowers your seizure threshold.

I asked straight out, we trying to wack this lady or?? Seems like a bad plan...

*I suspect she had an opi problem to but will never know or care other than that also would up her chance of seizure if use suddenly ceased (and they sure as shit weren't given any out unscripted) on the floor.
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Yeah agreed. I really like my psych as a person and she is super easy to be vulnerable to and honest. That's the most important thing to me but man she tried to give me serotonin syndrome, a benzo addiction (candy flavored dissolving 2mg clonazepam twice a day one morning one night for 60 days straight [and I am a recovered heavy alcoholic. Benzos are the only drug that when folks told me not to fuck with it- I could sense the fear), and she sent my Vyvanse to the pharmacy despite me saying I want to be done with amphetamines. Think it was just an accident, but I'd rather not find out how far my willpower would stretch with a bottle of amph in the house

Anyways yeah absolutely no amphetamine or aggressive cathinones for this man. Anything that heavily throws off serotonin norepinephrine or dopamine is off the table.

Wellbutrin is gentle enough that 150mg XL could be explored to get him thru some of the early stim withdrawal blues. Should have someone with him during the first week to monitor since it is a DRI
 
I also have ADHD and bipolar. Personally Vyvanse has worked perfectly for me, it doesn't make me scattered like short acting amphetamines, yet still just makes me feel better and a little more productive. I'm on 50mg now, have been on 60mg before. I honestly think I need a higher dose, but at this point I'm just happy to be able to have it prescribed at all.

Have only ever taken concerta or Ritalin once or twice, didn't seem as smooth or helpful as amphetamine, just made me jittery like coke or something.
 
deficiT said:
I also have ADHD and bipolar. Personally Vyvanse has worked perfectly for me, it doesn't make me scattered like short acting amphetamines, yet still just makes me feel better and a little more productive. I'm on 50mg now, have been on 60mg before. I honestly think I need a higher dose, but at this point I'm just happy to be able to have it prescribed at all.

Have only ever taken concerta or Ritalin once or twice, didn't seem as smooth or helpful as amphetamine, just made me jittery like coke or something.
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Interesting

My wife has tried meth a handful of times. I measure hers out to just above the theraputic Desoxyn threshold. Usually 0plike 30mg on the scale.

She gets visual disturbances and has bipolar type 1. Never has gone full blown manic.

But on like 25mg one night she cleaned the bathroom sink with the light off for 9, hours. Her eyes were straight black

After that she doesn't partake. I find amph induced psychosis so fascinating. What makes certain people more vulnerable or less vulnerable? I've gone four nights on my worst binge, but still only kinda had visuals like psilocybin, objects shimmering and shit. But I knew it was chill. First time we used together she kept seeibg pretty lights in the overhead fan. She was able to converse with me, never broke from reality, but stared at the ceiling fan for an hour smiling

She told me the other day that she likes it when she hallucinates things like that. Personally it freaks me out. My best friend I met her mid two month manic episode and once I realized what was happening it was a living nightmare trying to keep her safe
 



Maybe get one of these; its got a key that locks it and it dispenses the dose 1x a day.

Of course you could always smash it open with a hammer. But are you really going to do that if its merely full of difficult-to-abuse 36mg time-release methylphenidate (concerta)?

If you do wind up smashing it to get to a bunch of concerta, then you have a larger problem on your hands.
 
Electrum1 said:
Yeah I think he's beyond that. Not trying to be a dickhead, he's just gone all out after getting new scripts many times now. Don't want to see the guy OD
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I'm more concerned about him inducing a manic episode

If he's abused to the point of clinical psychosis before, it will get triggered quickly, possibly even in very small doses

As amphetamine abuse goes on, glutamate builds up making the brain extremely sensitive. Some people call this uhhhhh extreme dopamine sensitivity. Really it also enhances serotonin too, and norepinephrine. But it takes a while to go back to normal. And some people ever go back.
 
I personally love clonidine. It’s been a god send to me in many ways. I’ve said this a hundred times in different threads. It’s helped for withdrawal, restlessness, anxiety, and even sleep.

Ive been prescribed both aderall XR and Ritalin IR for ADHD/OCD. I like them both in different ways.

I’ve seen it suggested in a couple studies that clonidine has the potential to be used off label for ADHD.. but nothing ever seemed conclusive (not that I’ve seen). I havent really looked into it, just noticed.

It makes me very sleepy, so I’d never be able to take it during the day. But, maybe that would work great for someone else.
Could be a great med to try and worth talking to a doctor about.
 
Thanks everyone for your kind replies and support. It means alot to me.

Before I saw the responses I had already had my appointment and so now I take 20mg IR Ritalin in am and 10mg pm.

Idk why they don’t give me slow release as I believe slow release are much less risk.

I am taking precautions though. Immediately after filling it I took it to my wives work and gave the pills to her. Hell I even gave her 30 for her to keep for herself. She only uses them therapeutically and is not an addict. She has adhd but has been denying herself treatment because she was worried about me.

I think Ritalin taken orally for someone with a heavy amp history is pretty safe as the only way I would get high off it in the past is really voiding ir IV which is extremely unsafe (IV).

So long as I don’t fall into the trap and use a different ROA I will be fine.

Also I just ordered the time released medicine safe. My plan is this-

- keep all meds exert a week supply at my wife’s work locked in her desk.
- use the time release medicine safe for weekly meds.( I bought it today @negrogesic
- continue going to recovery support meetings. I know it’s not everyone’s thing but I need it. It helps me to stay connected with people that have the same goal of not abusing drugs.
- I quit weed. Not as harmless as I thought. I think it makes me more likely to use.
- take bipolar meds as prescribed.
- stay honest about cravings and/or relapse immediately as most of the time I kept using from the shame and guilt eating me alive and I think had o just told my wife right away I would have had help and it being out in the open makes it easier to quit.

Tonight I’m going to a DAA meeting for the first time. I’ve been to AA and that’s where I go the most but AA is tricky because some people have crazy views like not taking ANY psychiatric meds. One guys sponsor told him he should t be taking any osychiatric
Meds because they affect the brain and he went into psychosis.

Then you have your sponsors that use sponsorship as a way to boost their ego.

I’ve had one sponsor that made a scene for no r we son at all. I wasn’t doing our saying much and wasn’t doing anything and out of nowhere yelled at me in front of his friends “ I’m the teacher! You are the student!!!” Like wtf. Just trying to look big I front of his friends. He’s lucky I didn’t knock him out right then and there.

Then I’ve had sponsors try to tell me how to handle my marriage and insist I have to do it that way. I told him it’s not his place. He’s there to help me stay sober not manage my marriage.

So when coming back to AA I told myself I’m just not going to get a sponsor but idk Kay e I will one day. I did have one good one but he was elderly and I haven’t been able to find him after ghosting him when I relapsed years ago.

I guess I just have to find the right people and stick with them. I did make one friend so far in recovery. He only has two months though but that’s really a big part of what I’m looking for is to stop Isolating and have friends in recovery. He’s going to the meeting with me tonight.

Any further safety nets please let me know. Also, I’m not so sure that seraquel and lithium blunt the euphoria from stimulants as they say because I found alot of posts on the net of people taking both and still getting high so I’m not throwing caution out the window.

I know it’s risky but I honestly want stability and recovery so much more than feeling high l. That just would destroy my progress as I just got stabilized in the right meds and also my wife is very happy with the stable me and our marriage hasn’t been this good in years. Additionally, I can’t function when I abuse stims and always lose my jobs. So yeah getting Hugh on stims destroy Ms EVERYTHING.

I was thinking about vyvanse because it was effective and had slow onset but I did abuse them and even at therapeutic doses it got me high (60mg) so we decided on Ritalin. I should have asked for slow release though. Just another safety net. I’ll do that next time.

Anyhow, if you all have any other suggestions for safety precautions please let me know. I can’t think of anymore.
 
Lithium and Seroquel were both very sedating for me. You are on a low dose of both, as they always start lithium with to check your levels. That said, try not to go above your Ritalin dose merely to offset sedation. Seems like you know this. Just be aware that it may be an impulse once you hit a therapeutic dose of lithium. Remember Ritalin isn't to get high it's to help with ADHD, as you know and have mentioned.

For reference, I was on 1200mg lithium and 200mg Seroquel. (Not at the same time)

Do not drink alcohol on lithium. It dehydrates you and the hangover is horrendous.

Drink lots of water. Lithium is more toxic without it.

@Juicewrldfan
 
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The teachings of AA are “merely a suggestion”… anyone that tells you otherwise, stay far, far away from.

I’m happy for you dude! You’re making some very good choices for yourself, and I think that’s wonderful!

I wish you nothing but the very best :)
 
Personally, I found very little difference between IR and XR Ritalin. That’s not to say it wouldn’t be different for someone else.
 
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