Therapeutic doses of a dissociative?

[sekio]

Riluzole is a very indirect dissociative; it is not a NMDA antagonist so is one of those pseudo-dissociative drugs like Salvia.

That ABC special is kind of stupid. "Doctors call it ketamine ... and in a different form it can stop depression". What different form, the magical, non-abusable medical ketamine. Not dirty, addictive, abusable, bladder-damaging street ketamine. Which drug are they even talking about ? Ketamine or riluzole?

DXM always seemed the way to go for a true multifunctional broad spectrum ("dirty") antidepressant. Quick rundown - SNRI, weak kappa/mu opioid agonist, sigma1 agonist, weak binder to the PCP site
DXO the main metabolite is the real heavy hitter. Affinity for rat mu & kappa opioid (not very efficacious tho), less of a SNRI, much stronger of a NMDA antagonist and sigma1 agonist.

Both of them bind to a variety of nicotinic acetylcholine receptors as antagonists (c.f. ibogaine,wellbutrin) and also block certain ion channels (L-type voltage-gated ca²⁺)

truly broad spectrum drugs

 

[rangrz]

Therapeutic dosages of ketamine may result in respiratory depression and should only be administered by a physician or dental surgeon familiar with anaesthesia. (and in any event, given what ketamine is intended for, and what 'therapeutic' means in that context, it should be self-evident that it will render you into a state of profound unconsciousness, with the rough guidelines being ~1-4.5mg/kg~ with an average of 2mg/kg to produce surgical anaesthesia)

therapeutic dosages of DXM (that is, those found on the back of bottle of cough syrup...30-60mg...) have no evident psychoactive effect.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "therapeutic" dosage.

 

[phenethylo J]

^Even with an anesthetic dose of ketamine the respiratory is relatively low depression. You don't need to be monitored by a bunch of machines like with proplaphol and other anesethics.

By therapeutic doses of ketamine they mean low doses used for depression, chronic pain treatment, and tolerance moderation for opiates. Ketamine and methoxetamine have both really helped me with my debilitating chronic pain as well as my depression and allowed me to go down on my morphine and hydrocodone which I take to treat it. Lots using of times when I was using them my mom would repeatedly comment on how much better I seemed to be doing. While I have told her about trials with it being use for that treatment and she found it interesting I haven't told her I self medicate with it.

 

[rangrz]

^

I know it generally does not cause too much respiratory depression, but I still would hold that anyone being induced into a state of general anaesthesia should be attended to by a qualified person familiar with the technique being used and equipped to maintain an airway.

That use of "therapeutic" is odd to me, I'd say those dosages recommended by the manufactures on the product monogram approved by the regulatory agency which approved the therapeutic product to be marketed as such would be the therapeutic dose. (The rest would be experimental I'd say, in the sense of an experiment to determine what the therapeutic dose for the new indication is)

 

[any major dude]

There's been quite a bit of legitimate research on ketamine & nmda antagonists for depression. It seems to be quite effective. However I haven't seen any studies wherein they're used daily like most of our current anti depressant meds. Typically the studies have used single dose, weekly, & biweekly dosing regimens IIRC. Those measures should be sufficient to avoid tolerance & addiction in most people. Also, these were usually sub-khole doses as well. Not sure how much dosage effects the anti-depressant effects. Gotta do some pubmed &Google scholar searching later, haven't read much on this in a couple months

 

[edzeppelin]

After I read of the AD effects of Ketamine, and subsequently finding Jamshyds method on this site, I decided to try something like what Jamshyd does, which is a sub-psychedelic dose, at least two or three times a day. I couldn't obtain K, so I decided to use MXE. I tried 60 ml of polisterix DXM some monthes before, and got nothing. It may be better than nothing at larger 200 - 300 mg. But that would generally be a highish does to work or go to school on.

Based on the dosages being reported for psychedelic use, I decided on a dose of 10 mg, subinglually, three times a day. The first time I took it, I noticed an initial feeling very similar to the first half hour after dosing LSD. No trip ensued at that low dose, and I soon could no longer feel that initial effect. The AD effects took hold after about the fourth day. It was glorious - I could think very clearly, more confidence, etc..

I had no urge to redose, nor trip on my supply. (I had had a very difficult trip on psilocybin mushrooms 18 years prior, and did not wish to revisit that place.)

Anyway, the AD effects were happening, and I was really starting to turn things around (tackling the mess of unfinished chores and other business)

Now, the bad part. After 5 or 6 weeks the AD effect stopped. A higher dose would do nothing, or just skip right past the AD effect, and go right to a low-psychedelic dose feeling. I could not work in this state, so stopped. I thought tolerance would be not as pronounced, given the lower doses involved. But, at least for me, my lower dose usage has led to a very high tolerance.

I stopped for 4 months, and tried it again. This time I wanted to see if I could titrate up to the AD effect. I stopped at 90 mg, when I got a mild sense of contentment. So I stay off it for another 6-8 months. One day I was feeling particularly down so I tried again. Got a nice sense of contentment off 40 mg. But tried the same the next weekend, and barely felt anything. Tolerance to this class of drugs is very long lasting, and for MXE at least, the AD effects are very hard to get once you have a tolerance.

So all this leads me to believe it(MXE) is not a good long-term AD medication, purely for reasons of tolerance. And it should be noted for many this substance has strong psychologically addictive properties. Ketamine may have less tolerance issues and a more pronounced AD effect. But this statement is based on anecdotal stories of others on this forum. If there's one thing I've learned from reading this site for a few years, it's that drugs can have widely differing effects on people. So as always "YMMV"

 

[Sweetshare]

MXE is perfect for the treatment of depression. A minimum of side effects, but do not take often!

On high-dose dissociatives providing subjective amelioration for your issues, fun though it is (I can't stay away from chasing this every few months at least myself), it is delusional. IME it is an effect of severe dissociation to let you live out your subconscious wish fulfillment fantasies, emotionally or in vivid realism (if the dose is high enough to induce dream-visions). It's easy to survive just to reexperience this, but this isn't a solution nor a real alleviation of symptoms, just a mad obsession that distracts you from making any real progress, which will require longterm lifestyle changes.

Its true...