DexterMeth
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Reed got electro-shock when he was still a teenager. Would get lost in his own neighborhood.
Theories in why mainstream music has declined since the 50's-90's
- Thread starter Droppersneck
- Start date
coelophysis
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Umm...
MyFinalRest
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In the 90's? Has it gotten that bad? It's true! I even miss the good 'ol shitty days of Pearl Jam and MC Hammer compared with the garbage that started coming out in the late 90's and 2000's!
It was actually pretty fucking awesome. Even shit bands like Winger had a virtuoso lead guitarist in them.
Droppersneck
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Ill take feel over 80's speed anyday. Too many notes pisses me off. I think eric johnson is good but his music sucks.
Melody>>>technical prowess
DexterMeth
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Is this news to you or something?
CoffeeDrinker
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I knew I liked the guy. I didn't know why before now.
DexterMeth
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I take that back Droppers. Reed > Bowie ...by light years
ReeferChiefer
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It's simple, image > talent. Record companies don't seem to look for talent anymore. They look for who's going to appeal to a general group of people. Based on what they wear, what they do outside the studio, and even what's said in their songs. It seems selling out to the mainstream has become a fad. It's sad when I'm bumping 90's rap like Snoop Dogg and think about what he's become. The ones that weren't murdered, sold their souls and started making shitty music.
DexterMeth
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The music scene is going to come back in a big way with all the RCs that have circulating.
spacejunk
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david bowie?
you have to let go of the "convenience" of the olden days recording industry.
we used to have some good, conveniently available (on tv, radio, easy to find) music that made it through. you know - visionary artists that made it into the mainstream via a major record company.
now, i respect david bowie as an artist, but it's just not how it is done any more. most of the "artists" we see nowadays are pretty face/tits/arse etc and dance moves, moulded into a pliable, agreeable (the the industry) marketable image.
if you think individual, free-thinking, risk-taking artists are still signed by major record companies - i'm sorry but you're mistaken.
pre-fab boy bands? sure. auto-tune porn starlet dancer girls? well, alright. i-can't-believe-they're-not-gangstas? hmm, ok.
now the record companies are dead, we are left with all this safe, unimaginative boring shit. we all seem to agree on this, right?
you read practically any youtube comments section (i sometimes forget myself and do this) of an old song, and there's all this moaning "music sucks now!" "nobody has any talent any more" - it appears that way, but it's all an illusion of the media and the dead industry.
it's like a beautiful lake that has been poisoned by an invisible contaminant. the light still shimmers on the lake with all its natural beauty, it still looks the part - but you can sit there with your fishing rod all week and you're not going to catch one fish.
major labels? recording industry? dead.
not going to promote anything good ever again - just forget it. turn off mtv, forget about the radio. it's all been corrupted, it's decomposing. you can hear it
the days of good, tasty, yet convenient music are - in the current climate/industry/technology - over.
now it's all fast food music.
makes you fat, gives you heart disease, colon cancer (of the mind and soul).
there are countless amazing artists recording and performing now. new artists - fresh artists. shit you (and i) would love.
there are more artists recording albums now than ever before. this is great - but it's the other reason it's hard to find the good shit.
with the internet, the ease of recording, the low cost of self-releasing or independently releasing/pressing/distributing music means that we are FLOODED with music. most of it shit - but still HEAPS of it is good.
it's not like the 90s, the 80s, the 70s or earlier - all you had to wade through then was what was released by record labels.
sure - there were indie labels, that released rarer stuff that was harder to find, that they had their own audiences and signed bands they were interested in. if you found a band signed to one of those labels, you might also have found you liked their obscure label-mate bands too. but even with this, you still might only have dozens, maybe hundreds of records to choose from at any given time. it was possible for even a half-hearted music fan to work their way through a lot of this, sorting the good stuff from that which they didn't like.
now, on the other hand, every man and his dog can put out a cd or fork out to have his home recordings pressed onto vinyl. it was once the domain of the upper echelon of musicians - professionals, and even after that broke down a bit, it was still a very expensive undertaking to record, press, release and promote an album or a single.
you no longer need to convince A&R guys to sign your band, and they no longer need to convince their bosses that your band is a worthwhile risk, a worthwhile investment - you don't need to convince anyone of anything in order to release music these days - it's really not that hard to do it yourself.
the whole idea of a recording artist, recording company has melted into the cultural media information morass - to the point that it has been consumed by it.
so here's the big secret - if you want to find the good music, you're going to have to go looking for it!
i know that we used to be spoiled, it was everywhere - it was brought to us by the good people at [insert classic old major record company here]. sure, the company wasted money with decadent spending, payola campaigns to buy hits and chart spots, drugs, strippers, parties etc etc etc - but it also employed people and put food on their families' dinner tables.
when the industry died, most of the record industry people lost their jobs so they were no longer there to do the work involved in finding good artists and help them release great music.
so the point is - that is now everybody's job!
bill from capitol records, or sam from columbia aren't talent scouting any more - you are! and so am i!
when you find something good, find out who that band are. get one of their albums - maybe get some of their older ones too.
if you can see them live - go do it.
if you can't - maybe you can find out what other bands they play with, and track down their music too (psssst - a hint! it doesn't cost anything to stream music over the internet, and free mp3s aren't so rare either).
look for articles, see who these bands talk about. who is inspiring them at the moment, who are they impressed by and talking up?
you don't need to buy the music magazine - you can use google, it's free!
there are heaps of free online music zines as well - whatever your particular taste in music, it is surely catered for somewhere online.
if you're not finding any good music online, go see a local band in your town. if you don't have local bands in your town, make a point of it next time you're in a big city.
there is so much music around these days - people have no excuse in pretending it doesn't exist. it's everywhere. lots of it is good. there's plenty of shit too - but people seem to like to forget that there always was heaps of shitty music.
it's time for music listeners to get with the times, get off their arses and go and find the stuff they like.
if people want to be nostalgic about "the good old days" of music, where it was so easy to find good stuff on the radio - that's fine. but it doesn't mean that the only good shit was in the past, or that the next exciting thing in music will be done the same way as "classic" rock stars.
now, bowie made it big - even though he was weird and subversive. he went through numerous style and sound changes, led the way for many years in the vanguard of popular music.
but he still had an aggressive manager and a record company behind him. he still had the old fashioned elvis presley/colonel tom parke thing.
because the product people used to sell (records) is now a practically worthless (think hyperinflation in germany between the world wars) commodity, artists don't have the economic foundation that existed from the 50s through to the 90s.
the music industry was big bucks. it attracted businessmen, investors - there to make their millions.
these days? the record industry is the last place they'd be.
the cigar chomping, suit wearing band managers are few and far between - it ain't where the money is. those guys went back to pimping and selling coke or working in finance or some shit.
"You're not just selling an idea or music, you're selling a whole package"
- how do you do this in the current climate? what are you selling?
records? t-shirts? concert tickets? (only the second two options are profitable any more)
it's up to all of us to stop torturing ourselves listening to the record industry's dying, auto-tuned breath and just reject that shit. seek out the good stuff (however you please - music is everywhere) and spread it far and wide. if you want to hear good music, it's totally up to you - it's up to all of us.
and if you like it - buy something off them. most bands are selling something, be it merch or whatever.
if your favourite local band is playing a show, and the bass player is your cousin's boyfriend, don't ask for a spot on the guest list - cough up the measly five bucks at the door.
if your favourite touring act rocks into town, buy one of those shirts they have at the merch desk - and a poster, and a sticker and a keyring. that is how people make their money on touring these days. sad but true.
PS> i'm not meaning to single you out, dextermeth, your bowie comment just awoke another rant from deep inside me.
he played the game - he played it well (ask iggy and lou) - but he did so within the framework of a powerful industry that included receptive media such as rock magazines and contemporary radio.
i've been trying to make sense of this musical shift that has occurred, and work out how to use it as a positive thing rather than be one of those folks that gets left behind in thinking about how things used to be much better. the kids were just crass...!
you have to let go of the "convenience" of the olden days recording industry.
we used to have some good, conveniently available (on tv, radio, easy to find) music that made it through. you know - visionary artists that made it into the mainstream via a major record company.
now, i respect david bowie as an artist, but it's just not how it is done any more. most of the "artists" we see nowadays are pretty face/tits/arse etc and dance moves, moulded into a pliable, agreeable (the the industry) marketable image.
if you think individual, free-thinking, risk-taking artists are still signed by major record companies - i'm sorry but you're mistaken.
pre-fab boy bands? sure. auto-tune porn starlet dancer girls? well, alright. i-can't-believe-they're-not-gangstas? hmm, ok.
now the record companies are dead, we are left with all this safe, unimaginative boring shit. we all seem to agree on this, right?
you read practically any youtube comments section (i sometimes forget myself and do this) of an old song, and there's all this moaning "music sucks now!" "nobody has any talent any more" - it appears that way, but it's all an illusion of the media and the dead industry.
it's like a beautiful lake that has been poisoned by an invisible contaminant. the light still shimmers on the lake with all its natural beauty, it still looks the part - but you can sit there with your fishing rod all week and you're not going to catch one fish.
major labels? recording industry? dead.
not going to promote anything good ever again - just forget it. turn off mtv, forget about the radio. it's all been corrupted, it's decomposing. you can hear it
the days of good, tasty, yet convenient music are - in the current climate/industry/technology - over.
now it's all fast food music.
makes you fat, gives you heart disease, colon cancer (of the mind and soul).
there are countless amazing artists recording and performing now. new artists - fresh artists. shit you (and i) would love.
there are more artists recording albums now than ever before. this is great - but it's the other reason it's hard to find the good shit.
with the internet, the ease of recording, the low cost of self-releasing or independently releasing/pressing/distributing music means that we are FLOODED with music. most of it shit - but still HEAPS of it is good.
it's not like the 90s, the 80s, the 70s or earlier - all you had to wade through then was what was released by record labels.
sure - there were indie labels, that released rarer stuff that was harder to find, that they had their own audiences and signed bands they were interested in. if you found a band signed to one of those labels, you might also have found you liked their obscure label-mate bands too. but even with this, you still might only have dozens, maybe hundreds of records to choose from at any given time. it was possible for even a half-hearted music fan to work their way through a lot of this, sorting the good stuff from that which they didn't like.
now, on the other hand, every man and his dog can put out a cd or fork out to have his home recordings pressed onto vinyl. it was once the domain of the upper echelon of musicians - professionals, and even after that broke down a bit, it was still a very expensive undertaking to record, press, release and promote an album or a single.
you no longer need to convince A&R guys to sign your band, and they no longer need to convince their bosses that your band is a worthwhile risk, a worthwhile investment - you don't need to convince anyone of anything in order to release music these days - it's really not that hard to do it yourself.
the whole idea of a recording artist, recording company has melted into the cultural media information morass - to the point that it has been consumed by it.
so here's the big secret - if you want to find the good music, you're going to have to go looking for it!
i know that we used to be spoiled, it was everywhere - it was brought to us by the good people at [insert classic old major record company here]. sure, the company wasted money with decadent spending, payola campaigns to buy hits and chart spots, drugs, strippers, parties etc etc etc - but it also employed people and put food on their families' dinner tables.
when the industry died, most of the record industry people lost their jobs so they were no longer there to do the work involved in finding good artists and help them release great music.
so the point is - that is now everybody's job!
bill from capitol records, or sam from columbia aren't talent scouting any more - you are! and so am i!
when you find something good, find out who that band are. get one of their albums - maybe get some of their older ones too.
if you can see them live - go do it.
if you can't - maybe you can find out what other bands they play with, and track down their music too (psssst - a hint! it doesn't cost anything to stream music over the internet, and free mp3s aren't so rare either).
look for articles, see who these bands talk about. who is inspiring them at the moment, who are they impressed by and talking up?
you don't need to buy the music magazine - you can use google, it's free!
there are heaps of free online music zines as well - whatever your particular taste in music, it is surely catered for somewhere online.
if you're not finding any good music online, go see a local band in your town. if you don't have local bands in your town, make a point of it next time you're in a big city.
there is so much music around these days - people have no excuse in pretending it doesn't exist. it's everywhere. lots of it is good. there's plenty of shit too - but people seem to like to forget that there always was heaps of shitty music.
it's time for music listeners to get with the times, get off their arses and go and find the stuff they like.
if people want to be nostalgic about "the good old days" of music, where it was so easy to find good stuff on the radio - that's fine. but it doesn't mean that the only good shit was in the past, or that the next exciting thing in music will be done the same way as "classic" rock stars.
now, bowie made it big - even though he was weird and subversive. he went through numerous style and sound changes, led the way for many years in the vanguard of popular music.
but he still had an aggressive manager and a record company behind him. he still had the old fashioned elvis presley/colonel tom parke thing.
because the product people used to sell (records) is now a practically worthless (think hyperinflation in germany between the world wars) commodity, artists don't have the economic foundation that existed from the 50s through to the 90s.
the music industry was big bucks. it attracted businessmen, investors - there to make their millions.
these days? the record industry is the last place they'd be.
the cigar chomping, suit wearing band managers are few and far between - it ain't where the money is. those guys went back to pimping and selling coke or working in finance or some shit.
"You're not just selling an idea or music, you're selling a whole package"
- how do you do this in the current climate? what are you selling?
records? t-shirts? concert tickets? (only the second two options are profitable any more)
it's up to all of us to stop torturing ourselves listening to the record industry's dying, auto-tuned breath and just reject that shit. seek out the good stuff (however you please - music is everywhere) and spread it far and wide. if you want to hear good music, it's totally up to you - it's up to all of us.
and if you like it - buy something off them. most bands are selling something, be it merch or whatever.
if your favourite local band is playing a show, and the bass player is your cousin's boyfriend, don't ask for a spot on the guest list - cough up the measly five bucks at the door.
if your favourite touring act rocks into town, buy one of those shirts they have at the merch desk - and a poster, and a sticker and a keyring. that is how people make their money on touring these days. sad but true.
PS> i'm not meaning to single you out, dextermeth, your bowie comment just awoke another rant from deep inside me.
he played the game - he played it well (ask iggy and lou) - but he did so within the framework of a powerful industry that included receptive media such as rock magazines and contemporary radio.
i've been trying to make sense of this musical shift that has occurred, and work out how to use it as a positive thing rather than be one of those folks that gets left behind in thinking about how things used to be much better. the kids were just crass...!
Last edited:
Engage
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2012
- Messages
- 1,042
So true! I lol.
Also:
Except for music. I know hardcore music junkies that haven't bought a disc in years, it's fucking pathetic.
Of course there's still good stuff out here, but theres a lot more 'bedroom musicians' that might have benefited greatly from a million dollar recording studio that now just doesn't see the value of investing the money...for nothing. I dunno.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2002
- Messages
- 66,868
cyc hit the nail on the head. awesome post.
there was 'shitty' music in the 60s and there was 'awesome' music in the 90s. there's good and bad music, always.
i find that, generally speaking, if you want to enjoy, you'll seek out things to enjoy. if you want to moan and rant, you'll seek out things to moan and rant about. as ever, comments say so much more about the subject than the object...
alasdair
there was 'shitty' music in the 60s and there was 'awesome' music in the 90s. there's good and bad music, always.
i find that, generally speaking, if you want to enjoy, you'll seek out things to enjoy. if you want to moan and rant, you'll seek out things to moan and rant about. as ever, comments say so much more about the subject than the object...
alasdair
Engage
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2012
- Messages
- 1,042
No one said you need a million dollar studio to make quality music.
How to make a Dubstep Track under 20 minutes in FL Studio 10
See?![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
~ Being employed ft to make music as opposed to pt (when you're not washing dishes at the local hipster deli) can only improve the quality of your music. I'm guessing. What do I know?
~ Having a whole culture and generations of musical experience to rely on, or $1,000 an hour producers, etc, tutelage like with classical music, as opposed to a cracked version of virtual dj and a library of 'truly unique ambient sounds and dubstep beats!' Now only $39.99! helps also.
~ I find the argument of 'if-you're-bored-you're-boring' to be (overused) and simplistic and silly. It ignores the entire other half of reality. Things are different. Towns are different. Musical genres rise and fall (to some extent) and are different. Set...and setting.
And, a person in prison, for example, or diagnosed with cancer, or stuck in Texas, shouldn't be completely blamed for not having a rip roaring, funky good time because 'if you want to moan and rant, you'll seek out things to moan and rant about'. Terminal cancer got you down? Well, if you want to moan and rant, you'll seek out things to moan and rant about I guess, bro. lol.
Of course, you have a lot of control over where you are and what you seek out, but that doesn't address:
-----> why mainstream music has declined since the 50's-90's?
Basically, how has the music industry changed in the last 50 years.
What are the pros and cons of that change.
That is all.
By the way, I'm not a total prick when it comes to new music, file sharing, whatever, I like a lot of great new music, too.
Some of it wouldn't be possible without that stuff. New things are being done and blended. Wonderful things.
But, I feel like the homemade 'everyone's-a-DJ' crap outnumbers the talent. It's easier for anyone to
'make music' now. And via youtube, myspace, bandcamp, etc, everyone is exposed to this shit.
Oh well. Boo hoo.
So, you may have to look a bit harder amid the rubbish, but it's still there somewhere. I guess.
Most of the music I listen to is from 10+ years ago, and will probably occupy the rest of my life appreciating just that.
Letting it soak into my bones. Etc.
On the whole though, I feel that deviantART neither deviant... nor art.
People who have even picked up a book on Art Theory or Art Appreciation know this already. <--- what a prickish thing to say.
But, if nothing else, there's more choices now as we can listen to a recording of John Field's Nocturnes, next to the latest Dubstep wonk some 10 year old squeezed out from audacity this week with a few libraries of prerecorded beats cobbled together in his parent's house. hah. I still buy cassettes. And make mixed cassettes. By the ton. I love 'old' tech. As if the quality of 'oldness 'has degenerated it's value or usefulness? Bah!
The cult of the new is a marketting ploy to move units.
How to make a Dubstep Track under 20 minutes in FL Studio 10
See?
~ Being employed ft to make music as opposed to pt (when you're not washing dishes at the local hipster deli) can only improve the quality of your music. I'm guessing. What do I know?
~ Having a whole culture and generations of musical experience to rely on, or $1,000 an hour producers, etc, tutelage like with classical music, as opposed to a cracked version of virtual dj and a library of 'truly unique ambient sounds and dubstep beats!' Now only $39.99! helps also.
~ I find the argument of 'if-you're-bored-you're-boring' to be (overused) and simplistic and silly. It ignores the entire other half of reality. Things are different. Towns are different. Musical genres rise and fall (to some extent) and are different. Set...and setting.
And, a person in prison, for example, or diagnosed with cancer, or stuck in Texas, shouldn't be completely blamed for not having a rip roaring, funky good time because 'if you want to moan and rant, you'll seek out things to moan and rant about'. Terminal cancer got you down? Well, if you want to moan and rant, you'll seek out things to moan and rant about I guess, bro. lol.
Of course, you have a lot of control over where you are and what you seek out, but that doesn't address:
-----> why mainstream music has declined since the 50's-90's?
Basically, how has the music industry changed in the last 50 years.
What are the pros and cons of that change.
That is all.
By the way, I'm not a total prick when it comes to new music, file sharing, whatever, I like a lot of great new music, too.
Some of it wouldn't be possible without that stuff. New things are being done and blended. Wonderful things.
But, I feel like the homemade 'everyone's-a-DJ' crap outnumbers the talent. It's easier for anyone to
'make music' now. And via youtube, myspace, bandcamp, etc, everyone is exposed to this shit.
Oh well. Boo hoo.
So, you may have to look a bit harder amid the rubbish, but it's still there somewhere. I guess.
Most of the music I listen to is from 10+ years ago, and will probably occupy the rest of my life appreciating just that.
Letting it soak into my bones. Etc.
On the whole though, I feel that deviantART neither deviant... nor art.
People who have even picked up a book on Art Theory or Art Appreciation know this already. <--- what a prickish thing to say.
But, if nothing else, there's more choices now as we can listen to a recording of John Field's Nocturnes, next to the latest Dubstep wonk some 10 year old squeezed out from audacity this week with a few libraries of prerecorded beats cobbled together in his parent's house. hah. I still buy cassettes. And make mixed cassettes. By the ton. I love 'old' tech. As if the quality of 'oldness 'has degenerated it's value or usefulness? Bah!
The cult of the new is a marketting ploy to move units.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2002
- Messages
- 66,868
these manufactured, hypothetical cases really do nothing to advance the discussion. if i come up with two fictional cases that offer counterpoint, as we then even? if i come up with another one, do i 'win'?
5% of life is what's happening. the other 95% is how you choose to deal with it. there are plenty of (real world) examples of people with terminal illnesses who don't fit your stereotype.
re: "a rip roaring, funky good time", if you have to exaggerate that transparently to make your point, it speaks volumes.
alasdair
shimazu
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2012
- Messages
- 18,435
I can only comment on the rap industry as I havent followed anything else really but in one word: money. And as other people have said, its more about image than actual music nowadays. Back in the day guys like Biggie and Tupac didnt have to fabricate stuff about their life to sound cool, they really lived that shit. Fast forward to 2012 with YMCMB and Rick Ross being the most widely listened to rappers. What happened in those 10 years? All the good ones make money off their first couple albums than drop the fuck off. The hunger just isnt there anymore. 50 Cent, Lil Wayne, Wiz Khalifa, Kid Cudi, Kanye, Young Jeezy, the list goes on. All their early shit is leaps and bounds better than whatever they put out these days. Of course this is completely my opinion but I dont think youd be hard pressed to find others with the same opinion.
Engage
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2012
- Messages
- 1,042
Theoretical how? I've been in prison.
Prison is not a fictional place.
Get off your high horse and lighten up.
You're online. lol. Arguing about the quality of music today.
CoffeeDrinker
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2009
- Messages
- 4,082
I agree.
When a person loses their hunger their talent is surprisingly quick to follow. It's rare that a well-fed person manages to produce good music regularly, but those are the people we love the most. It's the difference between inventing your own mold, and then using that same mold over and over.
The sad truth is most people are just into the trends so they can appreciate and talk about the same artists as all their friends and peers. If two people are in agreement that a less-than-brilliant artist is "where it's at" then a third person is much more likely to tolerate that and even tell himself he likes it too.
Luckily there's an undercurrent of wisdom which tells artists and fans to think for themselves and simply go with whatever they love to listen to. This is why good music will always be made, and, with the massive amounts of connections now available, will always be available to hear as long as the artists try to get heard. The do-it-yourself attitude will never go away, but unfortunately neither will "monkey-see, monkey do."
shimazu
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2012
- Messages
- 18,435
Not to mention rap is more about the Producers than people realize. Anyone can sound good over a good beat. Look at the song Blowin Money Fast (BMF). Styles P is way better than Rick Ross but they both sound hot because Lex Luger hooked em up with the beat. And when people ask "oh whos song is that it sounds hot" the answer is Rick Ross because technically it is his song. I just happen to give more credit to Lex and Styles but most people dont look that deep i to it.
also fuck DJ Khaled what does that guy even do besides yell "we da best!" he dont rap or produce and im not exactly hyped up by his voice so hes not a good hype man. he needs to just not say anything ever again
also fuck DJ Khaled what does that guy even do besides yell "we da best!" he dont rap or produce and im not exactly hyped up by his voice so hes not a good hype man. he needs to just not say anything ever again
ya i produce hip hop tracks and to me producing a beat requires far more talent than rapping, other than the top echelon of rappers like gza, ras kass, basically the guys with the best lyrics. anyone can write a rap, it's really not that hard. the voice is generally what makes a rapper a hit or a miss. but rappers are a dime a dozen, if you rap you better know someone cuz noone needs a rapper these days, producers are in hot demand. i'm not even well known as a producer or anything i'm just getting off the ground and already i've had opportunites placed in front of me, whereas rappers noone gives a fuck about really everyone and there moms rapping these days.