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Theoretical psychedelics

have you came up with a modified trypta, psyche, or disso that doesn't exist, if so what?

  • yes

    Votes: 3 50.0%
  • no

    Votes: 3 50.0%
  • I've tried a few that no one has ever heard of

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    6

Waxworth

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 21, 2020
Messages
52
4 hydroxy methylethylpropyltryptamine
can it be done. also it seems like 4-ho-amt would be easier on the body than these 5-meo or chloro- amt's
I have a suspicion that 4-ho-amt would be one of the most impressive 4-ho's, that or the most body loading and annoying.

I've heard of 4-ho-ept described as meditative, and gentle with not much visual decoration to the experience. perhaps, adding the methyl aspect would make it into a 4-ho-met experience with a nice sense of whimsy and wonder.
also 4-ho-amt could be the most incredibly recreational of the bunch.

any thoughts on 4-ho-amt? any other possible amt derivatives?
is my proposed 4-hydroxy mept possible?
 
Well 4-HO-aMT supposed to have alot of side effects and is hard for the body to tolerate. But in one that I would really like to try that sounds interesting is 4-Me-aET, which would be Psychedelic/Empathogen. I'm sure their is a ton of stuff out there that barely anyone's tasted yet. Not sure about the other compound, someone more knowledgeable will chime in soon about whether or not it would work.
 
5-AcO-DMT ....perhaps it's more psychedelic and less toxic than 5ho-dmt....
And 4-pro-dpt seems like it might be absolute fireworks!!! (In regards to the survey).
I'm no chemist or neuropharmacologist so I was like where would you put the third substitution on the amine ...like I clearly see how you could have methylEthyl tryptamine or methyl propyl tryptamine....but then I remembered trimethyl tryptamine does exist so it probably is possible to synth but would 4-hydroxy-methyl-ethyl-propyl-tryptamine be active???
As in, would it too bulky to fit into the receptor? No idea....
 
IIRC Shulgin has comments on 4-aco-amt (or 4-ho-amt) being quite toxic on tihkal
 
thanks, @Cosmic Charlie. I just looked at the wiki. sounds like Amt is safe on its own but somehow near impossible to
turn into a safe derivative. Weird how you can have a class of chemicals that all can be altered in the same way and have the same general safety profile and then theres one that is next to impossible to do the same with. wonder if there will ever be a safe aMT derivative.

Just looked at the 4-me-aET wiki. Looks cool. Wonder if the stimulation and empathagenic quality is unique from the 5-meo's which I never liked. Maybe as a energy boost. Beats drinking red bull or energy drinks. But I couldn't really get that supposed mdma glow. 5-meo's only real use for me was an energy boost.
Wasn't 4-me-aet available for quite some time? I dont remember ever seeing an actual trip report for it, just lots of armchair speculation.

OP: are you talking about simple derivatives of things that already exist, 5-meo-mpt for example, or are you looking for truly novel compounds?

My 1st suggestion for a simple derivative of a known compound would be DOSe aka 2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylseleneoamphetamine. Shulgin spoke favorably about 2c-Se but had serious concerns about toxicity stemming from the addition of selenium. DOSe could, in theory, significantly reduce the effective dose from the high double digit milligram or even triple digit range down as low single digit mg, theoretically causing a much lower exposure to selenium. I'd try it...

PiHKAL entry for 2c-Se
 
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Another compound I would love to see is (5-ethyl-4,7-dimethoxy-2,3-dihydro-1H-inden-1-yl)methanamine. Not exactly novel, but much more so that simple phen and tryptamine derived compounds.
 
OP: what do you think about changing the title of this thread to "theoretical psychedelics" or something similar? It would probably get more people to check the thread out and other, more knowledgeable people to tell us if any promise for the proposed compounds exists or if we're barking up the wrong tree. This could be a more of a lay person's version of the NPD thread about psychedelics of the future. I'm very curious to see what other people might propose...


A bit off topic: theoretically, would the addition of the methylseleneo moiety, very different from the controlled DOXs place DOSe outside of the bounds of the analog act?
 
What do you think of [(7R)-3-trifluoromethyl-2,5-dimethoxy-bicyclo[4.2.0]octa-1,3,5-trien-7-yl]methanamine?? Anyone?

I wish I could get a chem draw type program that would work on my BL specific burner phone.
 
OP: what do you think about changing the title of this thread to "theoretical psychedelics" or something similar? It would probably get more people to check the thread out and other, more knowledgeable people to tell us if any promise for the proposed compounds exists or if we're barking up the wrong tree.

I don't mind.
 
4'-methylrolicyclidine (4-MRC)

1-(1-phenyl-4-methylcyclohexyl)pyrrolidine


reposted from 30 October 2019


Friends, I'm going to tell you a strange tale and ask your assistance. Back when I was a little kid I was a bit of a prodigy, I devoured chemistry books, I saw them as a natural followup to playing with LEGO, atoms as building blocks. As a young teen I devoured chemistry text books for higher education.. You get the gist.

At age 13 I felt compelled to buy a bottle of Ether (a NMDA antagonist) and inhale its contents. Usage of ether gave me fantastic visions, it shifted my chemistry interest to pharmacology and drugs, but there was more. I was receiving glimpses subtle and not to subtle of the future in those trips, and then in dreams and to my utmost astonishment, over the course of more than 30 years since, many of those things came painstakingly true, down to the details. But lets not digress too much.

One thing occurred over and over again: A molecule danced and rotated before my eyes from all direations, throbbing in the beat of my heart, and what sounded like an angelic chorus kept joyously singing: "4 methyl! 4 methyl! Roli! Roli!", and this over and over to have me memorize and never forget. This was something. This was something that would play a role in my life., would play a role in the world.

I grew older and wiser and whatever I could find on the subject pointed in the direction that this very straightforward analogue of the scheduled Rolicyclidine would not just be active, it would be very active, and very probably it would have a strong sedative and NMDA antagonist effects that would catapult the user into a deep hole without any stimulant resistance. A Dreamer's Dissociative, for a deep Hole In One.

In 2011 I got into MXE, another dissociative, and it kept on hammering on this particular molecule, on occasion singing the same mnemonic song, pushing my focus on it, that it was important.
All the SAR info I have read points to it being active and strongly dissociative.

Now in 2019 I have quit using dissociatives. I had the plan to have it made and test it, but now I feel compelled to not use a single dose of Dissocuative in my life again. I felt its role was played out in my life, I should focus on sobriety instead. But I had to do something with this molecule and I'm doing it right now.

Consider this post a lost kitty poster in the neighborhood: HAVE YOU SEEN THIS ARYLCYCLOHEXYLAMINE?

Was it synthesized in small circulation somewhere, have you read some old Parke Davis research where it was mentioned, does it even have a CAS number, anything at all?

Bluelighter Adder once made an overview of arylcyclohexylamines he said to have tried, and this one was among them, but people have widely called some of his research into question asthings were subsequently made and acted different than advertized.

Has anyone seen this research chemical? It is Rolicyclidine with a methyl group on the 4-position of the cyclohexane ring. Its 1-(1-phenyl-4-methylcyclohexyl)pyrrolidine. 4'-methylrolicyclidine, 4-MRC for short. Its completely legal worldwide except in some places as an analog of the scheduled Rolicyclidine. I have this urge that people may know more and that this is something important, a big one.

If so many things of those trips didnt have come true in the minutest detail I wouldnt bother you all with this. In any case its 99% sure to be a rock solid RC.

Does anybody have another sighting, on paper or at large, other than Adder's monograph in that thread from many years ago?

Private messages and confidentiality offered if you know stuff that you rather not say publically, but I have zero interest in taking a dissociative again at this point so no "offers" thank you.

This has been on my mind since I was a little kid riding Falkor on ether, help me out.

4-methylrolicyclidine-jpg.16324




2023 edit: My Spirit Guide, that-who-calls-itself-God, announced in no uncertain terms that the generic name of 4'-methylrolicyclidine is going to be Omnicyclidine in reference to Omnicyclion, the book it as God wrote through me. It intends this dissociative as a Sacred Medicine for the adherents to the paradigm of Omnicyclion and the Promise it holds - Omnicyclians, but only to those who seek the guidance this Medicine offers, because like any strong Dissociative it has a degree of harm potential.
 
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Zeta:

The original title compound, "4-HO-MEPT" or 4-hydroxy-N-methyl-N-ethyl-N-propyltryptamine, I would say could in fact actually be active at the 5-HT2A receptor based on recent research into the rare psilocybin-containing mushrooms alkaloid aeruginascin, 4-PO-TMT, and its active metabolite, 4-HO-TMT, or 4-hydroxy-N,N,N-trimethyltryptamine, as well as a synthetic prodrug, 4-AcO-TMT. This study found that 4-HO-TMT bound to the 5-HT2A receptor with around six times less potency than psilocin, 4-HO-DMT, and interestingly 4-AcO-TMT did not bind there (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7365549/). However, the problem mentioned in this study and that as far as I'm aware was already thought to be the likely problem with aeruginascin is that they may not pass through the blood-brain barrier efficiently due to the difference adding the third group on the tail makes, but I don't believe it's been actually proven that aeruginascin can't get into the brain yet, and this study also notes that "quaternary ammonium salts have been known to cross the blood-brain barrier through transporters; therefore, psychotropic activity remains a possibility." It's also possible though that changing three methyls to a methyl, ethyl, and propyl is not as forgiving in retaining 5-HT2A receptor affinity or agonist activity as changing two methyls to an ethyl and propyl, but again we just won't really know that kind of thing until someone decides to research it.
 
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