Theoretical info about muscle growth promotion of GABA analogues

[Solipsis]

Can someone shine a(n elaborate if necessary) light on how some drugs like GHB but also pregabalin which is not really a usual GABAergic at all are involved in muscle generation / body building? I just noticed that β-Hydroxy β-methylbutyric acid has qualities related to this and I heard in the past that GHB increases levels of HGH. Is the structural similarity of HMB a coincidence? Is a big part of it also just that having high levels of GABA / GABAergic agonism / transmission increases HGH levels. Or does it get a lot more complex
I am prescribed pregabalin and I wonder if it can also perhaps help. How can I get the most out of this situation? My main request is for background info though...

 

[Zeds(NCO2CH2CH3)2]

Hello Solipsis

Refer to the Thesis as linked : http://trace.tennessee.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2440&context=utk_gradthes

I will quote a decent component located on page 16-17 of the linked thesis.

"HMB also appears to directly upregulate protein synthesis through the activation of mTOR (mammalian target of
rapamycin), the intracellular protein that regulates protein synthesis [75].
Another possible mechanism by which HMB exerts its effect lies in its ability to provide
readily available substrate for cholesterol synthesis in muscle cells, as this is critical for the
integrity of myotube membranes [43,57]. There is evidence that damaged muscle cells are
unable to produce adequate cholesterol, resulting in decreased sarcolemmal integrity and
increased susceptibility to cell rupture [57]. The majority of HMB is metabolized into HMGCoA, which is often termed the rate limiting step in cholesterol synthesis [43,57]. Thus, HMB is
able to support the maintenance of sarcolemmal structure by providing an essential substrate for
myotube cholesterol synthesis [43]. It is important to note that HMB supplementation does not
result in an increase in circulating cholesterol [76,77]. HMB may play a role in the production of
coenzyme Q, a downstream metabolite of HMG-CoA, which plays an important role in myocyte
proliferation and mitochondrial function [78]. While the mechanisms of action of HMB may not
be well understood, the efficacy of supplementation in a variety of populations on protein
synthesis and muscle maintenance is well established [43]."

Notably I would guess the transaminated form of HMB to be important in something, names would be such as: β-hydroxy butyrate= β-amino butyrate,

3-Hydroxy-3-methylbutyric acid= 3-amino-3-methylbutyric acid
Best,
zedsdead​

 

[dopamimetic]

Don't know if this is related, but when I was prescribed pregabalin up to 800mg/d several years ago, while it did not work for what I got it for, upon the end of treatment (some months) I have noticed a somewhat huge improvement in endurance. Since I did not do sports regularly, I did notice this only on some occasions but was really surprised (and did not attribute this to the lyrica at this moment, as for a rather sedating substance if any, I'd expected the opposite). But really, the only thing I can compare it to is myo-inositol trispyrophosphate (ITPP), that derivate that modulates the binding of oxygen to red blood cells and also has this "like I had a pair of brand new lungs" effect, yet instantly.

 

[smt]

GHB became a really popular bodybuilding drug after this study I believe:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC508244/pdf/1000745.pdf

The researchers noticed a doubling nocturnal hGH release when GHB was taken pre-bed. The researchers theorized it was more to do with GHB's ability to cause people to fall into short-wave sleep faster.

 

[...]

But really, the only thing I can compare it to is myo-inositol trispyrophosphate (ITPP), that derivate that modulates the binding of oxygen to red blood cells and also has this "like I had a pair of brand new lungs" effect, yet instantly.

Are you saying the ITPP instantly boosted your endurance?

Dose? How long did you take it for? Did tolerance develop?

 

[Zeds(NCO2CH2CH3)2]

I am curious about this ITPP as well, what dose would you compare it to?

Also pregbalin may modulate a target in the blood vessels or the bone marrow, see this study' hemanangiosarcoma in mice administered pregbalin '

Only causes hemanangiosarcoma and reduced rbc , wbc counts, I would say it doesn't do it through the oxygen network but most likely acting as an inhibitor of HMG Coa reductase, (inhibiting fatty acid oxidation) , thereby indirectly increasing glycolytic process. Also note that 98% pregbalin unexpressed, with 2% as n-methyl pregbalin.

N methylation is an odd reaction so find the process in the rbc, wbc, mitochondria, etc that would selectively n methylate pregbalin peripherally and this could be responsible for the effects
Zedsdead

 

[dopamimetic]

Are you saying the ITPP instantly boosted your endurance?

Dose? How long did you take it for? Did tolerance develop?

Well, for curiosity and cause I got an offer for it ... I've never used "body supplements" before, just this being an inositol derivate being tested for use in people with heart damage, I thought that giving it a try can't be that bad. Since I do not really do regular exercise, I can't compare this much, but the effect is real. Effective dose for me (75 kg) is around 100 mg, I've used this only a few times yet, the last time some weeks ago when I had to move and thus carry furniture and boxes and climb stairs over and over. Of course there is no way to increase strength, but it did really boost my body's ability to carry oxygen. I have never breathed so deep and easily, respiratory rate did not really go up as expected and even the recovery time after carrying a heavy thing was shortened remarkably. .

As I did not take the ITPP the days after, I could directly compare and it was a real difference. Given the tiny amount of non-invasive (compared to e.g. steroids one has to inject) substance, it is really amazing. I see why they use this in race horses.. and a shame that people suffering from asthma or such have no access to this (if there are no unforeseen side effects).

It is too long ago to remember much of pregabaline's effect, but that was remarkable too. At first I thought it might be due to pregabalin's effect on pain perception, but it was beyond that.

 

[Solipsis]

Thanks for all your informative posts, am I to conclude (pretty oversimplified) that effects on muscle growth / endurance etc from GABA analogues are mediated via change of sleep architecture or via all sorts of specific and each unrelated effects on blood / bloodvessels / metabolism?

I'm having trouble picturing this together. Say, phenibut, how does that fit in (other than that it increases pain sensitivity for me and is therefore a bitch to take with workout soreness)

 

[Thomas29]

Xanax and Valium Particularly are Used to Produce HGH in more quanitties but basically GABA in General does that but remember.... It helps Muscles Grow at the same time helps Cancer Cells to Grow Also.