lib.sOCialist
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2008
- Messages
- 62
The two most difficult opiates/opioids to withdraw from are Fentanyl and Opana. The latter being pure living hell for 3-7 days depending on dosage, MOA, frequency of dosing.
The worst opiate/opiod to withdraw from? [New poll options added 1-22-08]
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APatcher
Greenlighter
The withdrawal from Ultram (tramadol), when taken in excessive amounts over time, is worse than any of the other opiates (possibly with the exception of methadone being worse). Tramadol not only causes a synthetic opiate withdrawal syndrome, but it also affects the GABA system, serotonin, and possibly others.
It's like going through opiate withdrawal, benzodiazepine withdrawal, and SSRI withdrawal all at the same time. The other interesting thing about tramadol is most people can consume a ton of it without throwing up or overdosing. Extremely high levels of tolerability can occur -- unlike most of the other opiates. (The others would kill you before such a level of tolerance was reached).
Having said all that, tramadol is probably easier to wean down the dose than any of the other opiates. As long as the user has enough supply to cut the dose over a period of 2 to 4 weeks, the withdrawal will be far less problematic than the others. It seems to have more gradual mental effects during the weaning down process. Tramadol also has a delayed opiate onset, so the opiate craving is far less when weaning down. In fact, some have found it useful when withdrawaling from harder opiates. However, immediate substitution of tramadol may be problematic because it can block the effects of some other opiates.
Nevertheless, heavy alcohol withdrawal tops them all, and is probably more deadly than any of the opiates over the long term. If you really want to test the limits of withdrawal hell, drink all day and all night for a few months and then quit suddenly. Drink about a liter (quart) or more of hard liquor every day for a year, and then quit abruptly!!! If you live to tell about it, it will make the opiate withdrawals seem like "mild complaining".
It's like going through opiate withdrawal, benzodiazepine withdrawal, and SSRI withdrawal all at the same time. The other interesting thing about tramadol is most people can consume a ton of it without throwing up or overdosing. Extremely high levels of tolerability can occur -- unlike most of the other opiates. (The others would kill you before such a level of tolerance was reached).
Having said all that, tramadol is probably easier to wean down the dose than any of the other opiates. As long as the user has enough supply to cut the dose over a period of 2 to 4 weeks, the withdrawal will be far less problematic than the others. It seems to have more gradual mental effects during the weaning down process. Tramadol also has a delayed opiate onset, so the opiate craving is far less when weaning down. In fact, some have found it useful when withdrawaling from harder opiates. However, immediate substitution of tramadol may be problematic because it can block the effects of some other opiates.
Nevertheless, heavy alcohol withdrawal tops them all, and is probably more deadly than any of the opiates over the long term. If you really want to test the limits of withdrawal hell, drink all day and all night for a few months and then quit suddenly. Drink about a liter (quart) or more of hard liquor every day for a year, and then quit abruptly!!! If you live to tell about it, it will make the opiate withdrawals seem like "mild complaining".
austinslacker
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 56
1 Methadone
2 Heroin
3 Oxymorphone
4 Oxycontin
5 Hydrocodone
2 Heroin
3 Oxymorphone
4 Oxycontin
5 Hydrocodone
enoughorangejuice?
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2007
- Messages
- 3,213
IMO, logically, PPT, methadone and buprenorphine should be the hardest/longest/and most difficult opioids to W/D from. PPT because it's 50+ alkaloids, not just one, and the long half-lives for meth/bupe.
IME:
oxycodone W/D last 5-6 days and is pretty bad. hydrocodone W/D is a little easier but that was only b/c my doses were lower on hydro than on oxy.
PPT: only used daily for a month and a half and then switched back to oxy but went a day or two without anything and W/D was MUCH heavier/strong than oxy and i could tell PPT was a bad path to go down (as the high was also much much stronger and more euphoric and better than oxy/hydro).
Suboxone: didn't think it would be difficult at first but after reading the stories online and hearing from multiple sub docs that they have very few, if any, patients that can get below 2mg a day of bupe (or get off completely). iwas the first patient my doctor ever had get off bupe. (but i switched to lomotil, then to opium tincture, but thats another story).
anyway i'd guess it would go like this:
1. PPT (only b/c it's more than one drug you are addicted to)
2. Methadone
3. Buprenorphine
4. Oxycodone/Heroin/Hydrocodone/Morpine (equivalent doses of course)
5. Demerol/Fentanyl (people seem to prefer morphine/heroin or oxy in general)
6. Oxymorphone/Hydromophone (easier/shorter W/D b/c of the shorter half-life? just a thought)
7. Codeine/Tramadol (tramadol may be a lot higher up because of its SSRI properties...SSRI w/d is hell. lexapro w/d for me was worse than 3mg / day klonopin w/d cold turkey after being on it for 3 years daily, and the lexapro w/d was worse than morphine / oxycodone w/d (1.5 year habit).
8. Darvocet/Lomotil/Motofen (little to no W/D)
IME:
oxycodone W/D last 5-6 days and is pretty bad. hydrocodone W/D is a little easier but that was only b/c my doses were lower on hydro than on oxy.
PPT: only used daily for a month and a half and then switched back to oxy but went a day or two without anything and W/D was MUCH heavier/strong than oxy and i could tell PPT was a bad path to go down (as the high was also much much stronger and more euphoric and better than oxy/hydro).
Suboxone: didn't think it would be difficult at first but after reading the stories online and hearing from multiple sub docs that they have very few, if any, patients that can get below 2mg a day of bupe (or get off completely). iwas the first patient my doctor ever had get off bupe. (but i switched to lomotil, then to opium tincture, but thats another story).
anyway i'd guess it would go like this:
1. PPT (only b/c it's more than one drug you are addicted to)
2. Methadone
3. Buprenorphine
4. Oxycodone/Heroin/Hydrocodone/Morpine (equivalent doses of course)
5. Demerol/Fentanyl (people seem to prefer morphine/heroin or oxy in general)
6. Oxymorphone/Hydromophone (easier/shorter W/D b/c of the shorter half-life? just a thought)
7. Codeine/Tramadol (tramadol may be a lot higher up because of its SSRI properties...SSRI w/d is hell. lexapro w/d for me was worse than 3mg / day klonopin w/d cold turkey after being on it for 3 years daily, and the lexapro w/d was worse than morphine / oxycodone w/d (1.5 year habit).
8. Darvocet/Lomotil/Motofen (little to no W/D)
methadone was horrific...definately worse than heroin, oxy etc at least with those you knew you'd be ok in 4 or so days. i was still feeling the methadone wd 4 months later.
most of the posts re fentanyl i've read on here seem to be from recreational users. i've certainly abused my share of opiates in my day, but was put on the fent patch some months ago. It doesn't get me high but i hear the kick is REALLY bad....like methadone bad.
Anyone here been on the patch regularly for chronic pain and then kicked?
most of the posts re fentanyl i've read on here seem to be from recreational users. i've certainly abused my share of opiates in my day, but was put on the fent patch some months ago. It doesn't get me high but i hear the kick is REALLY bad....like methadone bad.
Anyone here been on the patch regularly for chronic pain and then kicked?
wow seems to be methadone is the answer tho iv never had enough of a suply to withdrawl off, just enough to hold me till i got my next shot of dope. Heroin would have to be my vote.
Now im on sub's, so will see how this gose when i stop taking em. I might have a new vote.
Now im on sub's, so will see how this gose when i stop taking em. I might have a new vote.
I see that alot of people say methadone w/d is hard and it lasts a long time, to the people that picked methadone i'm curious about if it was so bad because you went cold turkey off of methadone or were you weaned off ? Is the w/d still really bad at the end if your weaned off slowly ?
K'd-OUT-in-AZ
Bluelighter
Methadone hands down. Started using 'daily' when I was 16, quit when I was 24 (1 year 4 months ago) and spent 3 of those 8 years on Methadone. The biggest mistake of my life was attempting to get off a simple 5 year daily habit by going through the MMT route. I wish I would have looked more into Suboxone 'before' MMT versus 'after'.
'I see that alot of people say methadone w/d is hard and it lasts a long time, to the people that picked methadone i'm curious about if it was so bad because you went cold turkey off of methadone or were you weaned off ? Is the w/d still really bad at the end if your weaned off slowly ?'
I was very slowly weaned off my maximum daily dose of 130mg Methadone. When on Methadone daily for years, every 5-10mg decrease in dose produces significant withdrawals that last for almost a week. But the incredibly hard part is when your weaning off the last few milligrams in which every day feels like intense heroin withdrawals but once you are completely off the Methadone the w/d's are...too awful to explain...and last forever. At my MMT 10mg was the most you could wean off per week although 5mg is suggested when being weaned off maximum doses that exceeded 100mg (when on maintenance for at least a year).
I attempted cold turkey but couldn't handle it. I was vomiting every couple hours of the day and could not eat solids...or I'd vomit. I couldn't get out of bed because my muscles barely functioned. My body was in a constant state of pain, bones felt incredibly fragile, I couldn't stay asleep for more than an hour or two when I was actually able to get to sleep. Hallucinations and nightmares of being dead. My bed was completely soaked from the cold sweats. The flu like symptoms were the least of my troubles.
So I went back onto the Methadone for a few more months until I finally came to my senses and really looking into Suboxone. I had to get back down to 30mg before switching onto it though.
Everything worked out in the end though...well, so far :D
'I see that alot of people say methadone w/d is hard and it lasts a long time, to the people that picked methadone i'm curious about if it was so bad because you went cold turkey off of methadone or were you weaned off ? Is the w/d still really bad at the end if your weaned off slowly ?'
I was very slowly weaned off my maximum daily dose of 130mg Methadone. When on Methadone daily for years, every 5-10mg decrease in dose produces significant withdrawals that last for almost a week. But the incredibly hard part is when your weaning off the last few milligrams in which every day feels like intense heroin withdrawals but once you are completely off the Methadone the w/d's are...too awful to explain...and last forever. At my MMT 10mg was the most you could wean off per week although 5mg is suggested when being weaned off maximum doses that exceeded 100mg (when on maintenance for at least a year).
I attempted cold turkey but couldn't handle it. I was vomiting every couple hours of the day and could not eat solids...or I'd vomit. I couldn't get out of bed because my muscles barely functioned. My body was in a constant state of pain, bones felt incredibly fragile, I couldn't stay asleep for more than an hour or two when I was actually able to get to sleep. Hallucinations and nightmares of being dead. My bed was completely soaked from the cold sweats. The flu like symptoms were the least of my troubles.
So I went back onto the Methadone for a few more months until I finally came to my senses and really looking into Suboxone. I had to get back down to 30mg before switching onto it though.
Everything worked out in the end though...well, so far :D
Ds
Bluelight Crew
hydromorphone, that's all i can get in my city.. been doing 4-5 a day for the past 6 months. If I dont go a day without doing one I feel like superman when he's around that green crystal thing.
byebyeblondie
Greenlighter
heroin fo sho... but i want mo
Well I know now for sure its methadone the past two weeks I was tapered down 13 mg. every other day and it was really bad !!!. I'm sure it had alot to do with going down so fast, in the end I just couldn't kick it. I wish I just would have coped with the heroin w/d and never got on this shit. Maybe next time I manage to get low I'll try bup.
Shambles
Bluelight Crew
Withdrawals after using for three days 
.
Bloody hell, you should maybe reconsider your opiate use if that's the case. It takes months, years even, to develop proper opiate withdrawals. I think you may be confusing comedowns with withdrawals. They're really not the same thing at all.
.Bloody hell, you should maybe reconsider your opiate use if that's the case. It takes months, years even, to develop proper opiate withdrawals. I think you may be confusing comedowns with withdrawals. They're really not the same thing at all.
cosmic charlie
Bluelight Crew
Ive withdrawled from heroin and methadone a couple times in my life mostly because i went to jail otherwise i wouldnt have stopped they were all horrible experiances. But about a month ago I stopped using poppy pods about 5 to 10 mammoths was my daily dose , and ill tell you what , hardest kick off my life i puked for the first 3 weeks and know im finally starting to feel normal again , whatever that is , i was also shooting heroin too which made the first week torture. I got through it tho , go me , no more tolerance.
entheogenius said:Withdrawals after using for three days
Bloody hell, you should maybe reconsider your opiate use if that's the case. It takes months, years even, to develop proper opiate withdrawals. I think you may be confusing comedowns with withdrawals. They're really not the same thing at all.
hm perhaps. all i know is that for a week, my body was so sore i could barely move, and i was constantly shitting and puking, and i was one pissed off motherfucker.
cosmic charlie
Bluelight Crew
opiphoria said:
thanks , im doing really well today is day 25 . Methadone is a tuff one 2 kick i went through that a few years ago i was on 60 mgs a day and was sent to jail for 2 weeks. It was pretty rough but not as bad as what i just went through in my opinion. When i got out of jail i went on vicoden for about 6 weeks the first 3 weeks i took 2 or 3 the last 3 weeks i took one . Then one day I woke up and didnt take anymore hydro and i was fine so that was like 8 weeks after my last dose of methadone. Its a hard one to kick cold turkey thats why i used a weak opiate like hydro. That helped me maybe you can try something like that . without the 2 weeks in jail that is.
txchick007
Bluelighter
So far, GHB. (8-10 caps/day)
chrisinabox
Bluelighter
^ uh, ghb, is not an opiate/opioid. i believe its a GABAergenic similar to alcohol or benzos. not sure but def know its not an opiate.