The War On Drugs Is A War On Culture

[love_sex_desire]

The title sums up where I want this thread to go. Submit your thoughts opinions and perspectives pertaining to my concept that the War On Dugs Is A War On Culture

 

[nervousone]

incorrect

 

[love_sex_desire]

incorrect

Care to elaborate nervousone?

I wasn't asking for one word answers, they offer no insight and are completely useless. To simplify, if I stated, "Oxygen is not essential for humans to survive", al though obviously false, by answering incorrect you are in no way communicating why this is incorrect. I'm looking for reflections, thoughts and opinions. Whether these thoughts agree or disagree I am looking for actual thought and open dialogue.

Computers/robots can be programmed quite easily to answer simply correct or incorrect. A Magic eight-ball can do the same thing. They are irrelevant, I'm looking for actual thoughts not one word answers that sound pre-programmed.

I'm sure the bluelight community as a whole is compromised of many independent thinking, intellectual individuals that will ignore any one answered questions, and I encourage all who come across one word answers to dismiss them.

At the risk of discrediting yourself I urge you, nervousone, as nervous as you may be, to elaborate on why my suggestion is incorrect when you have some time.

Remember this thread is a valid suggestion to encourage people to think, and unfortunately a one word answer does not equate to what I would even consider to be thought. To me a one word answer more accurately equates to being braindead.

 

[Sweet P]

Depends what you define as culture. I think your statement is a bit too general. Illicit drug use isn't a part of mainstream culture, so the war on drugs isn't a war on culture itself. It may be a war on a certain subculture or lifestyle, but not human culture in its entirety.

 

[arthunter888]

Most narcotics are detrimental to one's health in several ways, so there is some warrant for their illegality aside from the subcultures that use them.

But classic psychedelics and cannabis do not pose significant health risks, so I know that their illegality is bound to a WAR ON CULTURE:

The REAL REASONS PSYCHEDELICS/CANNABIS BECAME ILLEGAL are largely social, political, and behavioral. Let's face it: long term use of them DOES change people, more or less obviously. And the WAYS IN WHICH they change people make them a threat to the people in power and a threat to the institutions/values for which they stand.

For example, psyches/cannabis (to varying extents) promote:

1) Community values (sociability with others, sharing, bartering),
2) Creativity,
3) Dialogue on existentialism (Does science really explain everything? What if this is reality... what if this is our origin...)
4) The rejection of materialism (I can live without all these fancy possessions, happiness is not dependent on objects)
5) Introspection (why live this way? why do this/that? How can I be truly happy? What is morally correct? How do we improve the state of the world?),
6) The dissolution of social/ego boundaries ("me vs. you", "us vs. them" fades away).

As Terence Mckenna once said, "the tension between 'straight' culture and 'psychedelic culture' is a tension between values." This statement is right on, because I guarantee you that if the above values were to prevail, it would be the socioeconomic elites' worst nightmare. To show this, now let's look at the values that keep the elite in power:

1) Capitalism ( greed, financially motivated, what is mine is mine)
2) One-track thinking (thinking "inside the box", thinking 'normally')
3) Self-repression (your voice does not matter, the powerful will make decisions)
4) Determinism (Science explains everything, what you cannot perceive cannot be real, our view of human origin is the correct opinion)
5) Crass materialism (you worth IS measured by your material possessions, you will be respected if wealthy, and ridiculed if poor)
6) Conformity (Do not think for youself, follow the pre-established view about what is the right way to live, follow the majority, do not ask questions!)
7) Reinforcement of Social/Ego boundaries ((define yourself, compete with your peers, make a splash, you ARE your reputation, be better than everyone else!)

^^These are the values that dominate the minds of capitalistic individuals, not people who explore consciousness expansion through cannabis and psychedelics: in fact the expansion of mind shows how ridiculous and toxic the above values are.

The dominant drugs in a society tell a lot about the values of the society: the types of drugs that America promotes are not chosen because they are the safest or are the most pleasurable, they are chosen because they regulate the behaviors of their consumers in a way that benefits those in power. For example,

Caffeine: has a terrible 'bill of health', with many physically damaging side effects. BUT, caffeine is effective at keeping you alert and energetic, and therefore productive, so it helps you to do things like tinkering away at an assembly line of products, or typing uninteresting data into a computer, etc. in a sort of benign daze! This increased production boost the economy, which increases the amount of wealth that "TRICKLES UP" to those in power.

Tobacco: has a terrible 'bill of health' as well. BUT, Nicotine is a mild stimulant that increases productivity as well. More importantly, though, Nicotine is more addictive than any other drug, including heroin. Therefore, Nicotine addicts will shovel out $6 or more a day for a constant supply of cigarettes, which boost the economy to TRICKLE UP.

Alcohol: this one takes the cake. I need not convince you of how horrific this is to you health, just note how you feel the day after a night of heavy drinking (the day after a cannabis/psychedelic is not even close to how shitty a hangover feels). Alcohol is also highly addictive, and therefore boosts the economy. More importantly though, alcohol has effects opposite to cannabis and psychedelics. Instead of expanding your mind, it narrows it. Your thought processes are dulled, you are stupified (just listen to an alcohol TRY to sound articulate). You do not rationalize before acting. And also, it reinforces boundaries (me vs. you = barfights, when was the last time you saw a stoner/hippy break a bong over someones head for looking at them for too long or the wrong way?)

Okay, that's pretty much the 'backbone' of why cannabis and psychedelics were vulnerable to becoming illegal in the first place in the United States, and probably explains their legal status in many other countries as well. To sum up, Cannabis and psychedelics are radically different than the socially accepted alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine. The powerful elite have remained in power because they were and are able to influence the behavior the majority of US citizens, by suppressing drugs that would 'open their minds' like cannabis and psychedelics. They do not want people consuming these mind openers, because they are sort of like 'bullshit detectors': the more you start asking questions, thinking outside of the box, acting in a way that is helpful to the humanness of yourself and others, the more you start to realize that most of the behaviors that you have been conditioned into are bullshit, are toxic and destructive, and are designed to benefit a very small percentage of the population called the elite rather than you! And this is why mind-expanding drugs will be suppressed by the elite to the utmost extent possible, and is why 50% of all prison inmates are NON-VIOLENT drug offenders.

Thank you very much for listening to my rant. I think that if supporters of mind-expanding drugs want any hope of acceptance (however unlikely, legalization is out of the question), we need to stray from the obvious 'clean bill of health' argument, and vocalize the REAL, subtle issues that dominate the situation in the background. We must expose the bullshit constantly streaming out from the elite minds, and openly tie that into the terrible war on drugs that is happening in order to have any chance of what we can truly call freedom.

 

[arthunter888]

This is a great thread idea, let's get this thing going...

 

[arthunter888]

bump

 

[Captaindammit]

If they legalized drugs in the USA they would have no need for the DEA and ATF (no one is going to need weapons to "protect" their supply/hood)


soo.. we will never see drugs legalized in the us.

 

[AndroidsDreamofBTC]

While agree that restrictions on psychedelics/weed are mostly about people keeping in line, there is a lot more to culture than drugs. The War on drugs is just a war on one particular culture. If you think legalizing LSD would make everyone open minded and caring of other people and nature, think again! Even if LSD/shrooms where legal, we would still have just as much mindless capitalism and reality TV. It's the lowest common denominator, can't really do anything about it!

 

[kayenta]

The title sums up where I want this thread to go. Submit your thoughts opinions and perspectives pertaining to my concept that the War On Dugs Is A War On Culture

Absolutely. I find it remarkable that in every indigenous community in parts of the world where psychedelic plants grow naturally, those plants are revered as sacraments and form the basis of the spiritual/mystical/religious aspect of the community, but in our modern first-world society LSD is lumped in the same category as crack in most people's minds. Absurd.

 

[Sweet P]

^ I get what you're saying, and I kinda agree, but indigenous communities are very different from structured modern societies. I don't think much comparison can be made. I'm a drug user, but I wasn't raised around drugs and I don't regard it as a part of my culture. It's the lifestyle I chose for myself.

 

[3DayRun]

Well thought out reply, but you do realize that questioning authority / not being materialistic / doing what really makes you happy, ect. can be done without psychadellics. Also, when one lives this type of lifestyle then people don't get harassed by law enforcement. They only do when drugs are involved. Therefor, the basis of your arguement is false.

I'd go further and say that if this lifestyle really brought the majority of people happiness and a life they enjoyed better then they'd participate in those lifestyles. Frankly, I question the merits of anything that needs the drugs for enlightenment or the dedication to such a life of anyone who needs the drugs to achieve that.

 

[kayenta]

^ I get what you're saying, and I kinda agree, but indigenous communities are very different from structured modern societies. I don't think much comparison can be made. I'm a drug user, but I wasn't raised around drugs and I don't regard it as a part of my culture. It's the lifestyle I chose for myself.

You seem to be implying that indigenous psychedelic-using communities aren't/weren't structured - I doubt this is the case at all.

Anyway, having thought about this some more, it strikes me that the only two drugs which are truly part of majority European/North American culture - alcohol & tobacco - are legal. Coincidence? And where other drugs are used by other cultures or sub-cultures, this drug use is often demonized by the majority culture. For example, cannabis use in the USA in the early 20th century by black/hispanic minorities, LSD with hippies - big backlashes against them. Peyote use among native Americans was brutally supressed by Spanish imperial forces, and the list goes on. Just compare the difference in attitudes towards cocaine and crack - essentially the same drug but one associated with rich and famous and the other with poor people often of different race.

I'm sure that those examples have at least as much to do with clamping down on a particular lifestyle as with clamping down on the drug itself.

So rather than the war on drugs being a war on culture, I think it's a case of the war on some drugs being a war on some cultures, borne out of bigotry/racism/fear.

What galls me the most though is that people still think that they should be able to dictate the private lifestyle choices of others.

 

[arthunter888]

Well thought out reply, but you do realize that questioning authority / not being materialistic / doing what really makes you happy, ect. can be done without psychadellics. Also, when one lives this type of lifestyle then people don't get harassed by law enforcement. They only do when drugs are involved. Therefor, the basis of your arguement is false.

I'd go further and say that if this lifestyle really brought the majority of people happiness and a life they enjoyed better then they'd participate in those lifestyles. Frankly, I question the merits of anything that needs the drugs for enlightenment or the dedication to such a life of anyone who needs the drugs to achieve that.

Hmm, you seem to be missing my point.

"Well thought out reply, but you do realize that questioning authority / not being materialistic / doing what really makes you happy, ect. can be done without psychadellics."

^Yes it is true that you can develop healthy values without psychedelics. BUT, a vast majority of us Americans are raised all throughout our pre-adult lives to adhere to capitalist/toxic values. This conditioning is so strong and so built in that by the time we develop independent minds it is not simply just a case of saying "I'm not going to be materialstic, etc." It takes severe dedication, time, and hard work to de-condition yourself enough to even REALIZE that a lot of these values are toxic, LET-ALONE changing those internal values, a whole new animal itself. Psychedelics with a high enough dose, however, give your mind a blank-slate, they dissolve many years worth of conditioning, giving you an objective third-person view of your values INSTANTLY, as soon as the molecules bind to the receptors, viola! Psychedelics are not the only method of evaluating/changing one's values, but they sure are a quick and effective shortcut for the re-examination of one's values. And in this way, they do not provide you automatic happiness, they CONTRIBUTE to a happier life.

"I'd go further and say that if this lifestyle really brought the majority of people happiness and a life they enjoyed better then they'd participate in those lifestyles."

^This statement is just a logical error. One of the main effects of criminalization is the stigmatization of psychedelics. People have so many inaccurate presumptions that psychedelics are for losers, that they will make you insane, etc, that most of the people who would potentially benefit from them will never know how they could benefit from them because they won't even try them. Think about how many people actually have tried psychedelics even once. It is a very very low percentage of the population. And I guarantee that you won't find many people who HAVE TRIED psychedelics with an open mind (without predisposition) that will deny the benefits of them, that assert that they do not contribute to a happier life. STIGMA is the force keeping these drugs under the table, because all you need is one good dose of psyches to realize that there are many things to be learned with them.

 

[TouchN' Stuff Blvd]

I believe the war on drugs is actually a war on various cultures. I do not think that the program seeks to get ride of drugs all drugs, people obviously will get fucked up on something, so it provides a few options that are acceptable socially and legally - alcohol is a very much a drug. And I am sure there are plenty of illegal drug users running of the "war on drugs" even. Rather than attempt to eradicate drug use, the program provides cops with a free ticket to arrest a comparatively large portion of immigrants, blacks, punks, people under 25ish, etc.. It is a way preserving power in mainstream American culture: if any subculture threatens too cause to great of a change, is too disorderly, provokes to much xenophobia, whatever, the government has this strategy to abuse.

 

[3DayRun]

Sure, we are raised with certain core values, but who's the say they are actually toxic? What if someone genuinely wants to materialistic and selfish? It's up to them to decide through self exploration. If someone is content then more power to them.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that while we are exposed to mainstream ways of thought we are also exposed to various counter cultures quite readily. Can you honestly tell me that folks are really unaware of hippies stood for? Sure, that may just stratch the surface, but folks that dont see that life-style as something great aren't just "too programed to know", frankly, it sounds like you found somethign that really works for you and therefor must for others and if it doesn't... they need a massive psychadellic dose.

I've been open minded and extremely patient with psychadellics and have taken all sorts of dose ranges. My opinion? They were interesting drugs, but they were just that.. drugs. Nothing mystical, nothing Earth shattering, just an experience that, while unique, wasn't something that is as amazing as many on here claim and definitely nothing that could teach me anything.

In short, psychadellics are like modern art. Some find deep meaning in them and others only see random lines splashed on a canvis. Neither side is wrong, but just because folks don't find use in them or don't have a desire to eat a 10 strip it doesn't mean they are wrong or programed.

 

[Sweet P]

You seem to be implying that indigenous psychedelic-using communities aren't/weren't structured - I doubt this is the case at all.

No, I wasn't implying that. I probably should have worded it better. All I meant was that indigenous communities tend to be a lot more "basic" than, say, a modern Western city.

So rather than the war on drugs being a war on culture, I think it's a case of the war on some drugs being a war on some cultures, borne out of bigotry/racism/fear.

What galls me the most though is that people still think that they should be able to dictate the private lifestyle choices of others.

I agree. It's a war borne out of ignorance and misinformation. I also struggle to understand why some people can't just "live and let live", and why so many people condemn others for having certain lifestyles that don't even affect them.

 

[NomNomNom]

While it may be secondarily a war on culture, the war on drugs is primarily a war on Freedom. The bureaucrats keep good clean living Americans in fear to justify spending hundreds of millions (billions?) of their tax dollars on locking up people for victimless crimes. It's my body, this is America, i should be able to do what i want with it.

I find drug culture interesting and stimulating but i don't think you can say that the drug war is being purported because J. Edgar Hoover hated patchouli and i think it's a bit dangerous to throw the word 'culture' around in this context. The Bushmen of the Kalahari are a culture, you're just a stoner =-D

 

[love_sex_desire]

While it may be secondarily a war on culture, the war on drugs is primarily a war on Freedom. The bureaucrats keep good clean living Americans in fear to justify spending hundreds of millions (billions?) of their tax dollars on locking up people for victimless crimes. It's my body, this is America, i should be able to do what i want with it.

I find drug culture interesting and stimulating but i don't think you can say that the drug war is being purported because J. Edgar Hoover hated patchouli and i think it's a bit dangerous to throw the word 'culture' around in this context. The Bushmen of the Kalahari are a culture, you're just a stoner =-D

I agree that throwing around the word "culture" in the context of a community that has always been demonized and never had a chance to truly develop into the tightly-knit community that we generally view as a culture is "dangerous to throw around in this context." It may be more appropriate to consider the war on drugs to be a war on freedom, but I simply wanted to instigate debate by using what I thought some would view as "controversial" word-choice by outright saying it is a war on culture. A war on MY culture at that. Not a war on all cultures, but a war on what I consider a deeply defined counter-culture. It may not be as present as it is in some places, and it is rarely mobilized in most places, but there is a thriving community of people that disregard the fear that America has tried to instill within each and every person on this planet's hearts and truly investigates the inner workings of their mind because the ideal of freedom is not one that is tossed around lightly. I will always take into account my actions and how they affect other people, but I will never stand down and let the powers that be stop me from one of the most intimate experiences one can have with themseleves. No I'm not talking about jerking-off, I'm talking of course about exploring the depths of our inner minds through the use of psychedelics.

To play the devil's advocate in response to the Bushmen of Kalahari statement:

What makes you consider the Bushmen of Kalahari a culture, but the people defending the counter-culture, and somewhat the bluelight community, as a bunch of stoners?

If you consider the Bushmen of the Kalahari to be a culture, yet you consider the psychedelic counter-culture to just be stoners, than what do you call the fast-food fueled, reality television driven, gossip-infested, irrational fearing culture that vicariously lives through the death and destruction of others through broadcast and commercialized war that I will go as far as to say that in differing degrees has become the mainstream modern culture of North America?

I'm not saying that this disgrace of a culture isn't still a culture, in my opinion it is metaphorically the culture of the anti-christ. American expansion and global influence is Manifest Destiny and will lead to our apocalypse, just as the anti-christ was destined in the bible.

When you say the Bushmen of Kalahari are a culture but I'm just a stoner, it sounds like you're only considering an indigenous, traditional community to be a culture.

If you consider the self-destructive modern mainstream North American society to be a "culture" than you must give the psychedelic community the respect it deserves and consider it a culture as well. A highly marginalized, de-centralized, discredited, and highly neutralized "counter"-culture, but one that I would consider more loving, intellectually sophisticated and independent thinking compared to the culture of the average "Joe six-pack", denying his freedom in the name of "patriotism", a completely useless, contradicting, simple-minded incarnation of that which is truly evil who through obedience and conformity will surely lead to the demise of our entire species.

It takes little to see that modern mainstream North American culture is simply sick. People dying from obesity while others starve. There is something inherently wrong with this culture, and it takes little de-conditioning to understand how truly brainwashed, from the start of the public school system, this culture has become. I can only hope the marginalized counter-culture throughout all of it's incarnations will mobilize before the self-destruction of mankind under the grip of America, the only true "rogue" state, policing the world, for the benefit of the few.

 

[3DayRun]

I'm going to go with that at its core the psych "counter-culture" or "culture", whatever you want to call it, is absolute no different than the "Joe Six-pack" culture that the main stream have.

Both gossip and back stab. Both become greedy and elitist. Both tend to become narrow minded and unwilling to even entertain other ideas that may not agree with theirs. It's the same thing, except with different clothing. What's more dangerous, becoming too materialistic or demanding that humanity return nature and live in communal farms. Both have their pros and cons and these weigh differently depending on your values.

We're programmed a lot less than one might think. Information is readily available to anyone. That's a fact. It's not like we have heavily suppressed or banned book. Whether you want inform yourself about psychadelic drugs and therapy, learning why we have a War Drugs, or what drugs really do your body. It's all there.

The real problem is that a lot of what counter-cultures believe in is not sustainable long term. As people we want to advance and get more. It's a basic human trait and even applies to animals, materialism that is. For instance, you'll see animals compete to be better or have better nests to attract a mate. The same for people.

Anyway, I'll end it here. I just got some solid tweak and I could write a book, so I'll stop.