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The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement wants you to rethink having children

swilow

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The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement wants you to rethink having children

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If you announce on Facebook that you're having a baby, don't expect Les Knight to be among the well-wishers.

The self-described "finder" of the provocatively-named Voluntary Human Extinction Movement ? or VHEMT (pronounced "vehement") ? says congratulating people on a pregnancy is an example of "natalist propaganda".

"If someone announces on social media that they're expecting, everybody's going to say congratulations," Mr Knight told RN Drive's Patricia Karvelas.

"If somebody says 'we decided not to procreate', there's going to be a lot of silence there.

"I think congratulations is more in order when people decide to save eight-and-a-half hectares of potential wildlife habitat for 82 years, which is what someone in Australia who chooses not to add another to the population can achieve."

Mr Knight says the movement is designed to make people think twice about having children.

"Many people assume that it's what they're going to do, it's the default," he says.

"If people really think about it before they procreate, they're likely not to ? more and more people are choosing to not procreate these days."

VHEMT's motto is "may we live long and die out", and its stated aim is to phase out the human race by encouraging people to stop breeding.

The VHEMT website says it is "a movement advanced by people who care about life on planet Earth".

"We're not just a bunch of misanthropes and anti-social, Malthusian misfits, taking morbid delight whenever disaster strikes humans," its FAQ says.

"Nothing could be farther from the truth. Voluntary human extinction is the humanitarian alternative to human disasters."

Mr Knight says the world would be better off with fewer humans.

"We would be more likely to provide for everyone, we would stop encroaching on wildlife habitat," he says.

He admits a "voluntary extinction" of humanity is unlikely, but says "it would only be fair".

"We're causing the extinction of maybe a million other species," he says.

"The odds on our success are about the same as the odds on us taking care of 10 billion people in the future.

"About 30,000 [people] die every day of preventable causes, so it's not a good situation."

Babies the result of 'indoctrination'
Mr Knight denies that the fact animals reproduce in the wild is proof that having children is a natural urge.

"What they're doing is engaging in activities that lead to procreation, same as us," he says.

"We have instincts, or urges at least, that cause us to engage in [sex], but the actual instinct to procreate is actually a cultural indoctrination."

He says there are parents who have joined his movement.

"The idea is to not produce more than we already have, and that helps us to be able to take care of the people who are already here," he says.

The US-based activist says he is for "reproductive freedom" and is not in favour of government intervention such as China's former One Child Policy.

He says nearly half of all pregnancies in Australia and the US are unintended, which implies people aren't getting adequate access to contraception.

"In other places, no contraception is available at all, and they like to not procreate but they're denied that access," he says.

-read on . . .

I have to admit that his line of thinking is well reasoned and logical. And yet I still really want to have children. I am a monster.
 
I think it's another example of humans never getting it right, always going for one extreme or another. Either selfishly destroying the world for short term wealth, or trying to rid the world of humanity entirely.

Refusing to just see the reasonable middle ground. That nature is not a Disney cartoon, animals can be selfish evil bastards to each other, and so can we. And we have just as much right to try and survive as any other creature on this planet.

Yes, we desperately need to learn more sustainable ways to live. Both because it's in the earths long term interest, and because it's in our own.

But just seeking humanities extinction is just as misguided as the way we're going now. It strikes me as another form of this modern rejection of science in favor of an imagined view of nature. Where nature is innately good and harmonic and where animals never kill other animals eggs to replace them with their own or where animals use chemical weapons to kill each other.

The thing about humans is we are just the most extreme. We cause the most destruction, but we are also the most selflessly kind. But in the end, nature isn't good or bad, it just is. We don't need to return to it, because we never left it. What's important is that we find a way to function in our environment that is sustainable and will lead to a prosperous future. Just dying out so that nature can continue to be indifferent without us as opposed to indifferent with us is pointless.
 
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@JessFR: i would like to hear of your opinion on the georgia guidestones.

and specifically of it being actually effective for the sake of the 10 guidelines they have.

(for anyone reading who doesn't know me, wikipedia is a reference and not a final source of complete info but i will add the link so you can familiarize yourself with it albeit superficially)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones
 
@swilow: logical yes but i think you would make a great mum. :)

seriously though, major dilemma and i understand; your not a monster. you and future mrs. swilow would have awesome kids.
 
How Many People Can Earth Support?

"The power of population is so superior to the power of the Earth to produce subsistence for man, that premature death must in some shape or other visit the human race."

The late-18th century philosopher Thomas Malthus wrote these ominous words in an essay on what he saw as the dire future of humanity. Humans' unquenchable urge to reproduce, Malthus argued, would ultimately lead us to overpopulate the planet, eat up all its resources and die in a mass famine.

But what is the maximum "power of the Earth to produce subsistence," and when will our numbers push the planet to its limit? More importantly, was Malthus' vision of the future correct?

Earth's capacity

Many scientists think Earth has a maximum carrying capacity of 9 billion to 10 billion people. [How Do You Count 7 Billion People?]

One such scientist, the eminent Harvard University sociobiologist Edward O. Wilson, bases his estimate on calculations of the Earth's available resources. As Wilson pointed out in his book "The Future of Life" (Knopf, 2002), "The constraints of the biosphere are fixed."

Aside from the limited availability of freshwater, there are indeed constraints on the amount of food that Earth can produce, just as Malthus argued more than 200 years ago. Even in the case of maximum efficiency, in which all the grains grown are dedicated to feeding humans (instead of livestock, which is an inefficient way to convert plant energy into food energy), there's still a limit to how far the available quantities can stretch. "If everyone agreed to become vegetarian, leaving little or nothing for livestock, the present 1.4 billion hectares of arable land (3.5 billion acres) would support about 10 billion people," Wilson wrote.

The 3.5 billion acres would produce approximately 2 billion tons of grains annually, he explained. That's enough to feed 10 billion vegetarians, but would only feed 2.5 billion U.S. omnivores, because so much vegetation is dedicated to livestock and poultry in the United States.

So 10 billion people is the uppermost population limit where food is concerned. Because it's extremely unlikely that everyone will agree to stop eating meat, Wilson thinks the maximum carrying capacity of the Earth based on food resources will most likely fall short of 10 billion. [When Will Earth Run Out of Food?]

According to population biologist Joel Cohen of Columbia University, other environmental factors that limit the Earth's carrying capacity are the nitrogen cycle, available quantities of phosphorus, and atmospheric carbon concentrations, but there is a great amount of uncertainty in the impact of all of these factors. "In truth, no one knows when or at what level peak population will be reached," Cohen told Life's Little Mysteries.

Slowing growth

Fortunately, we may be spared from entering the end-times phase of overpopulation and starvation envisioned by Malthus. According to the United Nations Population Division, the human population will hit 7 billion on or around Oct. 31, and, if its projections are correct, we're en route to a population of 9 billion by 2050, and 10 billion by 2100. However, somewhere on the road between those milestones, scientists think we'll make a U-turn.

UN estimates of global population trends show that families are getting smaller. "Empirical data from 230 countries since 1950 shows that the great majority have fertility declines," said Gerhard Heilig, chief of population estimates and projections section at the UN.

Globally, the fertility rate is falling to the "replacement level" ? 2.1 children per woman, the rate at which children replace their parents (and make up for those who die young). If the global fertility rate does indeed reach replacement level by the end of the century, then the human population will stabilize between 9 billion and 10 billion. As far as Earth's capacity is concerned, we'll have gone about as far as we can go, but no farther.
 
Current Population is Three Times the Sustainable Level

Global Footprint Network data shows that humanity uses the equivalent of 1.7 planet Earths to provide the renewable resources we use and absorb our waste.1 If all 7+ billion of us were to enjoy a European standard of living - which is about 60% the consumption of the average American - the Earth could sustainably support only about 2 billion people.

The longer we continue consuming more resources than the Earth can sustainably provide, the less able the Earth can meet humanity's resource needs in the future - and the fewer people the planet can support - long-term.

Evidence of unsustainable resource use is all around us. Global aquifers are being pumped 3.5 times faster than rainfall can naturally recharge them.2 As they run dry hundreds of millions will suffer. Topsoil is being lost 10-40 times faster than it is formed.3 Feeding all 7+ billion of us will become increasingly difficult. Oceans are overfished, and a primary protein source for over 2 billion people is in jeopardy.4 Worldwide, we have lost over half the vertebrate species in the air, water, and land since 1970.5 How many more species can we lose and how many more ecosystems can we destroy before humanity?s own existence is threatened?

It is important to note that the depletion of non-renewable resources such as fossil fuels, metals, and minerals that make a higher standard of living possible are not included in Global Footprint Network data. This includes all the tons of oil, coal, iron ore, copper, and hundreds of other minerals and metals that make modern life possible. Taking these non-renewable resources into account suggests 2 billion people living at a European standard of living may be the upper limit of a sustainable global population.

Climate change will only add to the strain on the planet?s ability to support all 7+ billion of us. Climate scientists are warning us to expect lower crop yields of major grains such as wheat, rice, and maize.6 Rising sea levels could create hundreds of millions of climate refugees.7 And climate disruption is likely to create increasing levels of resource conflict and civil unrest.8

Adaptation to climate disruption will be much easier with a much smaller global population. We can achieve a smaller global population tomorrow by beginning a dramatic reduction in births today.

All of us want a viable, sustainable global home. If we allow overpopulation and overconsumption to continue, the evidence is mounting that billions will suffer and that we will leave future generations a much harder, bleaker life.

Reducing birth rates now can save us from the likely increase in death rates that awaits us if we do nothing. Solving overpopulation is essential in building a sustainable future.
 
Those are v two different takes on population. I can't imagine 10 billion people except maybe? I've been in Tokyo.

I'm not "vehement" (arf arf) about population decline. However, I think as long as resources are allocated in such an uneven manner, general quality of life is largely a matter of luck. Here I'm referring to basic things like enough potable and non-potable water, which is also important.

One of the folks included in the articles was instrumental in my understanding of population and environmental impact, oddly enough, for full disclosure.
 
Well I did my part. My ex and I were unable to procreate. For years, I thought it was me - a hack fertility doctor told me I "shot blanks" when my ex had endometriosis, something that wasn't discovered until she had a hysterectomy. She kind of had a breakdown after that and filed for divorce a few weeks later.
 
I'm not sure I want to have kids. I mean I think I do, because it's such a fundamental part of being a life form on Earth. Also when I'm old, I want to have a family. Still, it's sound logic that not having children is responsible in this day and age.
 
Hey, I've got an idea... Birth control?

You don't have to have ten kids, nor zero, just the two!

What you say? Jesus hates that? Satan does too? Oh noes, whtever shall we do!? Society can neeevvverr be rational or secular, it will destroy the world!



For the record, my woman and I will be childless most likely. At least, she wants it that way. I wouldn't mind having one or two, but shes very opposed to bringing any child into a world like this. As in, she thinks it's a crime against the child to willingly bring it into such misery. I don't blame her.
 
The Earth will survive long after we're gone. If this fella wants to fast track humanities demise maybe he should off himself first. Dickhead.
 
interesting you point out the matrix cduggles.

the human population is dwindled down to what a few thousand, a few hundred thousand? those numbers are very sustainable, using the matrix reference it is the machines who constantly keep the numbers of the human population in check. they keep enough people alive to use as batteries and they allow the human resistance to live because we have something they do not have, the ability to create the life they need to sustain as energy sources. what if their breeding programs run aground, entire fields are lost and cannot produce more humans to use as batteries? they pick up a few fresh materials from the resistance and start over again. they think about things logically and within certain parameters. human beings in real life might be creatures of habit but our chaotic nature seems to get the best of us and often ends up biting us in the rear end more often than not.

we don't have the A.I. machines in real life to keep us in check. we are literally the top of the food chain at this time and we even try to make other human beings lower on that food chain as well. i was getting into researching this topic before i got put on standby, the basics of this link are true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_collapse

i think after human civilization has dwindled down to the numbers in the matrix the georgia guidestones are a good example to live our lives by or to point us in the right direction of finding a new set of laws/rules/guides to follow. that plus it takes out all the arguments on how we get to a place where we can start implementing them. though it is a very morbid way of doing so and i hope it doesn't come to that.

lately i know there is only so much room to go around on this planet and also that societies through out history rise and fall. we are resilient and there is a natural order of things so to speak. the very idea of society collapsing and then picking ourselves back up again and starting from basically scratch almost goes without question.

one of the things i'm curious about is how big do our numbers get before our source of life itself, DNA, becomes watered down? too weak or stretched too thin to reproduce human beings that don't fall apart? are not whole of mind and body to be effective is sustaining their own life let a lone assisting in the communities around them?

kinda like part of the bases of the aeon flux movie or what i think some countries are starting to do with cloning of animals to use as food. how many times can a cows DNA be cloned before the food is no longer sustaining us and becomes detrimental to us? we eat the cow thinking we are getting the food we need but it ends up killing us immediately or slowly from a new "sickness" that is created from it.

like building a house from rotten wood or a car from rusty metal full of holes. or feeding a plant every day with a crumb of rotten meat that has a tiny spec of plastic in it and watering it with water that has sat in a glass for a year soaking that spec of plastic in it.
 
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^^ Interesting thoughts. The only thing I'm not sure about is the replicating DNA thing leading to organisms falling apart. I don't think that's how it works. DNA has been mutating and reproducing ever since the dawn of life and this process only makes it more robust. It doesn't seem to me that the population size has anything to do with whether or not DNA would become "watered down" or not. If anything it would only strengthen our genes, as people mated across more and more cultures, making negative recessive genes less likely. And with cloning DNA, if it's a true clone, it would just keep being exactly the same, it wouldn't degrade.
 
^^ Interesting thoughts. The only thing I'm not sure about is the replicating DNA thing leading to organisms falling apart. I don't think that's how it works. DNA has been mutating and reproducing ever since the dawn of life and this process only makes it more robust. It doesn't seem to me that the population size has anything to do with whether or not DNA would become "watered down" or not. If anything it would only strengthen our genes, as people mated across more and more cultures, making negative recessive genes less likely. And with cloning DNA, if it's a true clone, it would just keep being exactly the same, it wouldn't degrade.

I'm with you here, I don't think it makes any sense at all. Of the many ways human society could be destroyed, I'm not seeing DNA just falling apart from being too diverse being likely.

It's not like there a finite amount of DNA to go around.

Also I know this isn't exactly the point, but it really can't be said enough times how the idea of humans being used as battery's, or any kind of power supply, is really stupid.
 
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