ebola?
Bluelight Crew
Do you have any similar studies on-hand implicating whole soy foods, or even minimally processed soy foods, e.g. tofu?
ebola
ebola
-
H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist
The Vegetarian Debate: is a meat-free lifestyle healthier?
- Thread starter Strawberry_lovemuffin
- Start date
U.R.B.4.U.R.
Bluelighter
Not off hand. I have addressed my statement to soy isolates.
Traditionally in the orient. Most all soy was fermented and not eaten in great quantities.
Fermentation of soy has the advantage of removing or destroying phytates. Phytates bind with minerals and prevent their absorbtion.
Now many grains ect. have phytates but soy has very large amounts which could cause problems if large amounts were consumed.
Traditionally in the orient. Most all soy was fermented and not eaten in great quantities.
Fermentation of soy has the advantage of removing or destroying phytates. Phytates bind with minerals and prevent their absorbtion.
Now many grains ect. have phytates but soy has very large amounts which could cause problems if large amounts were consumed.
Jimmy the Gun
Bluelighter
Do you have any studies from a different site; seeing as he is selling a grain-free, low carb diet book...
U.R.B.4.U.R.
Bluelighter
I'll check it out at work.
I've found Mercola to be a pretty reliable source. But I understand your concern.
Side Note; It's very hard to find unbiased studies anywhere. I have found each and every one of us has a bias. Many studies are designed with the influence of unconscious bias. That's one reason why you can find so many conflicting studies on any subject.
I've found Mercola to be a pretty reliable source. But I understand your concern.
Side Note; It's very hard to find unbiased studies anywhere. I have found each and every one of us has a bias. Many studies are designed with the influence of unconscious bias. That's one reason why you can find so many conflicting studies on any subject.
Jimmy the Gun
Bluelighter
some other articles
Its true that many studdies and articles are biased. Here are some from the other side of the fence.
Here is one from the FDA
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2000/300_soy.html
Soy: Health Claims for Soy Protein,
Questions About Other Components
by John Henkel
Vegetarians and health enthusiasts have known for years that foods rich in soy protein offer a good alternative to meat, poultry, and other animal-based products. As consumers have pursued healthier lifestyles in recent years, consumption of soy foods has risen steadily, bolstered by scientific studies showing health benefits from these products. Last October, the Food and Drug Administration gave food manufacturers permission to put labels on products high in soy protein indicating that these foods may help lower heart disease risk.
As with health claims for oat bran and other foods before it, this health claim provides consumers with solid scientific information about the benefits of soy protein and helps them make informed choices to create a "heart healthy" diet. Health claims encourage food manufacturers to make more healthful products. With soy, food manufacturers have responded with a cornucopia of soy-based wares. (See "The Soy Health Claim.")
No sooner had FDA proposed the health claim regulation, however, than concerns arose about certain components in soy products, particularly isoflavones. Resulting questions have engulfed the regulation in controversy.
This came as no surprise to Elizabeth A. Yetley, Ph.D., lead scientist for nutrition at FDA's Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition . "Every dietary health claim that has ever been published has had controversy," she says, "even the relationship of saturated fat to a healthy diet."
While the controversy may seem confusing to the consumer giving it casual consideration, a careful review of the science behind the rule reveals a strict divide between what FDA allows as a health claim based on solid scientific research and related issues that go well beyond the approved statements about health benefits of soy protein.
What's known is that all foods, including soy, are complex collections of chemicals that can be beneficial for many people in many situations, but can be harmful to some people when used inappropriately. In that simple fact lies much of the scientific dilemma--when do data show a food is safe and when do they show there could be problems?
Scientists agree that foods rich in soy protein can have considerable value to heart health, a fact backed by dozens of controlled clinical studies. A yearlong review of the available human studies in 1999 prompted FDA to allow a health claim on food labels stating that a daily diet containing 25 grams of soy protein, also low in saturated fat and cholesterol, may reduce the risk of heart disease.
"Soy by itself is not a magic food," says Christine Lewis, acting director of the Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition's Office of Nutritional Products, Labeling and Dietary Supplements. "But rather it is an example of the different kinds of foods that together in a complete diet can have a positive effect on health."
Much of the research to date has examined dietary soy in the form of whole foods such as tofu, "soymilk," or as soy protein added to foods, and the public health community mostly concurs that these whole foods can be worthwhile additions to a healthy diet. The recently raised concerns, however, focus on specific components of soy, such as the soy isoflavones daidzein and genistein, not the whole food or intact soy protein. These chemicals, available over the counter in pills and powders, are often advertised as dietary supplements for use by women to help lessen menopausal symptoms such as hot flashes.
Article continued at web address.
and one from solaeliving.com
http://www.solaeliving.com/womenshealth/bonehealth/soyproteinandbonehealth.jsp
Soy Protein and Bone Health
Osteoporosis Basics | Nutrition & Bone Health | Soy Protein Benefits
Soy Protein Benefits
Since the prevalence of osteoporosis isn't the same across cultures, researchers are looking to other cultures for clues to possible ways of reducing this disease. Surveys of women in Japan, for example, have raised questions about factors affecting bone health. Although Japanese women consume less calcium than most women in Western countries and are unlikely to use Estrogen Replacement Therapy (ERT) or Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), they have a lower prevalence of fractures.
Some researchers believe that part of the answer to this puzzle may lie with the high intake of soyfoods in the traditional Japanese diet. They first looked at the effects of soy protein itself on calcium metabolism. More recently, research has focused on the potential effects of the isoflavones found in soy.
Soy Protein and Calcium
Scientists have extended the scope of the research showing that the amount of calcium excreted increases as protein intake goes up. They discovered that not all types of protein have the same effect-protein from animal sources causes much greater calcium loss than vegetable protein. This has been confirmed in a study of 755 Japanese men and women. Researchers found that consuming animal protein was associated with an increase in calcium excretion. However, they found no significant relationship between calcium excretion and the consumption of plant protein.
These findings become more meaningful when they are translated into the effect on bone fractures. As part of the large Nurses' Health Study, researchers looked at usual dietary intake and fracture rates in 85,900 women. First, they compared women averaging less than 68 grams of protein per day with those consuming more than 95 grams. The woman eating more protein had an increased risk of fracturing their forearm. Next, the researchers evaluated the type of protein being consumed. The increased risk of forearm fracture was seen in women consuming animal protein. Consumption of vegetable protein, however, was not associated with an increased risk.
The Isoflavone Story
The isoflavones found in soy and thus soy protein are genistein, daidzein, and glycitein.
Isoflavones can be classified as phytoestrogens, which are substances in plants that have chemical structures resembling estrogen. Isoflavones actually have several potential modes of action in the body. Depending on the circumstances, they may either act like a weak estrogen, act as an antiestrogen (blocking some effects of estrogen), or have effects not related to estrogen.
Purified genistein has been shown to slow the activity of cells that break down bone- osteoclasts- in the laboratory and in animals. Other researchers also found that genistein directly inhibited the breakdown of bone tissue in the laboratory.
Some animal research has shown genistein's effects on preventing bone loss to be similar to those of estrogen. Where genistein and estrogen differed is that the isoflavone had the benefit of not affecting the uterus.
Casein and nonfat dry milk. In this short-term study the women receiving isolated soy protein increased bone mineral density in the lumbar portion of their spine.
References
View bone health references list.
Its true that many studdies and articles are biased. Here are some from the other side of the fence.
Here is one from the FDA
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2000/300_soy.html
Soy: Health Claims for Soy Protein,
Questions About Other Components
by John Henkel
Vegetarians and health enthusiasts have known for years that foods rich in soy protein offer a good alternative to meat, poultry, and other animal-based products. As consumers have pursued healthier lifestyles in recent years, consumption of soy foods has risen steadily, bolstered by scientific studies showing health benefits from these products. Last October, the Food and Drug Administration gave food manufacturers permission to put labels on products high in soy protein indicating that these foods may help lower heart disease risk.
As with health claims for oat bran and other foods before it, this health claim provides consumers with solid scientific information about the benefits of soy protein and helps them make informed choices to create a "heart healthy" diet. Health claims encourage food manufacturers to make more healthful products. With soy, food manufacturers have responded with a cornucopia of soy-based wares. (See "The Soy Health Claim.")
No sooner had FDA proposed the health claim regulation, however, than concerns arose about certain components in soy products, particularly isoflavones. Resulting questions have engulfed the regulation in controversy.
This came as no surprise to Elizabeth A. Yetley, Ph.D., lead scientist for nutrition at FDA's Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition . "Every dietary health claim that has ever been published has had controversy," she says, "even the relationship of saturated fat to a healthy diet."
While the controversy may seem confusing to the consumer giving it casual consideration, a careful review of the science behind the rule reveals a strict divide between what FDA allows as a health claim based on solid scientific research and related issues that go well beyond the approved statements about health benefits of soy protein.
What's known is that all foods, including soy, are complex collections of chemicals that can be beneficial for many people in many situations, but can be harmful to some people when used inappropriately. In that simple fact lies much of the scientific dilemma--when do data show a food is safe and when do they show there could be problems?
Scientists agree that foods rich in soy protein can have considerable value to heart health, a fact backed by dozens of controlled clinical studies. A yearlong review of the available human studies in 1999 prompted FDA to allow a health claim on food labels stating that a daily diet containing 25 grams of soy protein, also low in saturated fat and cholesterol, may reduce the risk of heart disease.
"Soy by itself is not a magic food," says Christine Lewis, acting director of the Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition's Office of Nutritional Products, Labeling and Dietary Supplements. "But rather it is an example of the different kinds of foods that together in a complete diet can have a positive effect on health."
Much of the research to date has examined dietary soy in the form of whole foods such as tofu, "soymilk," or as soy protein added to foods, and the public health community mostly concurs that these whole foods can be worthwhile additions to a healthy diet. The recently raised concerns, however, focus on specific components of soy, such as the soy isoflavones daidzein and genistein, not the whole food or intact soy protein. These chemicals, available over the counter in pills and powders, are often advertised as dietary supplements for use by women to help lessen menopausal symptoms such as hot flashes.
Article continued at web address.
and one from solaeliving.com
http://www.solaeliving.com/womenshealth/bonehealth/soyproteinandbonehealth.jsp
Soy Protein and Bone Health
Osteoporosis Basics | Nutrition & Bone Health | Soy Protein Benefits
Soy Protein Benefits
Since the prevalence of osteoporosis isn't the same across cultures, researchers are looking to other cultures for clues to possible ways of reducing this disease. Surveys of women in Japan, for example, have raised questions about factors affecting bone health. Although Japanese women consume less calcium than most women in Western countries and are unlikely to use Estrogen Replacement Therapy (ERT) or Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), they have a lower prevalence of fractures.
Some researchers believe that part of the answer to this puzzle may lie with the high intake of soyfoods in the traditional Japanese diet. They first looked at the effects of soy protein itself on calcium metabolism. More recently, research has focused on the potential effects of the isoflavones found in soy.
Soy Protein and Calcium
Scientists have extended the scope of the research showing that the amount of calcium excreted increases as protein intake goes up. They discovered that not all types of protein have the same effect-protein from animal sources causes much greater calcium loss than vegetable protein. This has been confirmed in a study of 755 Japanese men and women. Researchers found that consuming animal protein was associated with an increase in calcium excretion. However, they found no significant relationship between calcium excretion and the consumption of plant protein.
These findings become more meaningful when they are translated into the effect on bone fractures. As part of the large Nurses' Health Study, researchers looked at usual dietary intake and fracture rates in 85,900 women. First, they compared women averaging less than 68 grams of protein per day with those consuming more than 95 grams. The woman eating more protein had an increased risk of fracturing their forearm. Next, the researchers evaluated the type of protein being consumed. The increased risk of forearm fracture was seen in women consuming animal protein. Consumption of vegetable protein, however, was not associated with an increased risk.
The Isoflavone Story
The isoflavones found in soy and thus soy protein are genistein, daidzein, and glycitein.
Isoflavones can be classified as phytoestrogens, which are substances in plants that have chemical structures resembling estrogen. Isoflavones actually have several potential modes of action in the body. Depending on the circumstances, they may either act like a weak estrogen, act as an antiestrogen (blocking some effects of estrogen), or have effects not related to estrogen.
Purified genistein has been shown to slow the activity of cells that break down bone- osteoclasts- in the laboratory and in animals. Other researchers also found that genistein directly inhibited the breakdown of bone tissue in the laboratory.
Some animal research has shown genistein's effects on preventing bone loss to be similar to those of estrogen. Where genistein and estrogen differed is that the isoflavone had the benefit of not affecting the uterus.
Casein and nonfat dry milk. In this short-term study the women receiving isolated soy protein increased bone mineral density in the lumbar portion of their spine.
References
View bone health references list.
Morb
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2004
- Messages
- 135
star* said:I'm sorry but i couldn't read through the whole article on soy.
Someone enlighten me![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
if you cant take the time to read the information offered, why should anybody care to reduce and encapsulate information to enlighten [edited personal attack - no flaming please] ?
drink some soy for me!
Last edited by a moderator:
U.R.B.4.U.R.
Bluelighter
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
Shortcut to: http://thyroid.about.com/cs/soyinfo/a/soy.htm
The interesting thing here is that the FDA, flips sides I believe. werd8(
Shortcut to: http://thyroid.about.com/cs/soyinfo/a/soy.htm
The interesting thing here is that the FDA, flips sides I believe. werd8(
U.R.B.4.U.R.
Bluelighter
Some more.
http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html
http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html
U.R.B.4.U.R.
Bluelighter
StagnantReaction
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2004
- Messages
- 4,489
The FDA has been known to bias in the favor of big corporations (soda, meat industries). Where are the studies for diary, meat, etc? When is the FDA going to put milk in its place and denounce the dairy industry for false advertising? If soy is this damn bad that we need to talk about growth risks in children, don't get me started on milk.
I'd like some studies on oriental cultures, ones that only eat fish & soy. I've heard that ever since the animal industries stepped up, females around Japan have been getting their periods sooner..
I'd like some studies on oriental cultures, ones that only eat fish & soy. I've heard that ever since the animal industries stepped up, females around Japan have been getting their periods sooner..
Last edited:
U.R.B.4.U.R.
Bluelighter
Well like with everything there is two sides. You need to take in as many facts as possible before making your best guess. And that's all it is.
For instance there is a big difference between fermented whole soy products and soy isolates.
There is a big difference between free range grass fed meat and grain fed fattened , hormone filled, antibiotic laden meat.
There is a big difference between pasturized , homogenized, grain fed milk and raw grass fed, organic milk and milk products.
Unless you are willing to take these things into account you cannot make an intelligent decision about this subject. Then it just comes down to personal bias.
For instance there is a big difference between fermented whole soy products and soy isolates.
There is a big difference between free range grass fed meat and grain fed fattened , hormone filled, antibiotic laden meat.
There is a big difference between pasturized , homogenized, grain fed milk and raw grass fed, organic milk and milk products.
Unless you are willing to take these things into account you cannot make an intelligent decision about this subject. Then it just comes down to personal bias.
star*
Bluelighter
Morb said:
I did actually read it to the best of my ability, but i found it a little difficult to actually interpret and understand what half of the article was trying to convey. I don't know alot on this subject, let alone the scientific jargon.
Sorry.
U.R.B.4.U.R.
Bluelighter
Hey Star, Don't feel bad. I have the same problem and I read this stuff all the time. Just keep pluggin away at it and you will get a little better with time. You should commend yourself for taking the time to learn about your health. %) 
StagnantReaction
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2004
- Messages
- 4,489
U.R.B.4.U.R. said:
I really agree with you, URB. I'm sure there's some balance in there that we can live safely in.
People often tell me "well my grandparents ate meat all the time and they're 80". Well, back in their day, wasn't the animal meat chopped up in front of them, after being raised on a farm? Today exists some extremely bad karma in the meat industry, and people cannot possibly expect to live as long as their grandparents on the meat, because, simply, it has changed. People have gone so far as to completely remove all thought as to where the burger patty has come from and left it all up to the industry, who in turn has optimized the product and profit, and like most big corporations, risked the consumer in doing so.
I guess what I'm really getting at is that I really have a problem with people not thinking. People readily consume if it tastes good, and as we all know books cannot be judged by their cover. By actually wondering where the food came from and researching subjectively and scientifically, perhaps one can find out what would be the best and healthiest for themselves. And maybe after taking care of themselves the best they can, maybe they can even open their minds to the thought that perhaps animals do feel pain, that maybe they're entitled to live just like all living, breathing creatures and maybe humans aren't the best in all fields. I thought that maybe the tsunami would've put people in their place, but maybe not.
Baby steps..
Oh, and also I apologize for not explaining myself earlier.
U.R.B.4.U.R.
Bluelighter
I also agree with what you just said !00%. From the animal cruelty standpoint alone. I say NO to meat.
I am lucky enough to have access to free range organic beef and poltry. Not many others are.
I'm glad we have found some common ground here, and I applaud your openmindedness on this issue.
I am lucky enough to have access to free range organic beef and poltry. Not many others are.
I'm glad we have found some common ground here, and I applaud your openmindedness on this issue.
Jimmy the Gun
Bluelighter
any thoughts on hemp protein? it seems as if phytates in plants are the problem.
U.R.B.4.U.R.
Bluelighter
Hemp Gooood ,Yum! Puff puff, munch munch. Hemp oil good balance of omega 3-6-9 for humans, not deficient in omega 3s. High (pun intended) quality protein. Good on environment.
What's not good about Pot? OOps I meant hemp.
What's not good about Pot? OOps I meant hemp.
Morb
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2004
- Messages
- 135
U.R.B.4.U.R. said:Hemp Gooood ,Yum! Puff puff, munch munch. Hemp oil good balance of omega 3-6-9 for humans, not deficient in omega 3s. High (pun intended) quality protein. Good on environment.
What's not good about Pot? OOps I meant hemp.
I never thought my life could be
Anything but catastrophe
But suddenly I begin to see
A bit of good luck for me
'Cause I've got a golden ticket
I've got a golden twinkle in my eye
Attachments
Vegetarian Diet- some advice please
I've recently converted (back) to vegetarianism . . . this has probably been covered before but I was wondering if anyone can give me some hints on nutritious foods to consume, vitamin supplements, etc. I am not a big eater anyway and son't really care about taste, as such, so any clues/ideas would be great. Thanks
I've recently converted (back) to vegetarianism . . . this has probably been covered before but I was wondering if anyone can give me some hints on nutritious foods to consume, vitamin supplements, etc. I am not a big eater anyway and son't really care about taste, as such, so any clues/ideas would be great. Thanks
ozbreaker
Bluelighter
Most vegetarians i know claim Spirulina is a godsend.