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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: tryptakid | Foreigner

The UK in the EU: "Brexit"

Oh no, I dare not risk the criticism of Dracarys. Are you really that incompetent that you can't go to google and research how the EU was founded and how it was sold to the public as a trading block, and then how the political entity operates as it does today that circumvents the democratic process in its member states by superceding their own parliaments. It's not that difficult to wrap your head around.

Just come-up with ONE reliable source, to back ONE of your paranoiïd conspiracy-theory claims man.

Are you too afraid to publicly mention what sources you base your views on?
 
Be careful he might call you a racist sexist misogynistic xenophobe and expect you to give a fraction of a fuck

Are you too afraid to publicly mention what sources you base your views on?

Lol, by not referencing or citing anything it shows that he obviously gives a fraction of a fuck that people would consider him a racist xenophobe as his sources would most certainly back up that line of reasoning.
 
Just come-up with ONE reliable source, to back ONE of your paranoiïd conspiracy-theory claims man.

Are you too afraid to publicly mention what sources you base your views on?

Not at all. I've already given you my main go-to source, which is google. I don't follow any particular individual, newspaper or expert. I read information from a broad range of sources and make up my own mind about the issue at hand, as no one source ever gets all the facts in one place and thus I can't point you to my source and say "Here, read this and then refute as you may".

You're expecting me, as so often becomes the case, to provide you with a source that proves definitively what I'm saying is true. Well, history isn't written yet, so how on earth you expect me to provide you with that kind of information - the writing is on the wall if you just take a step back, but it certainly hasn't been committed to history books as it hasn't finished unfolding yet.
 
SS: You cannot expect people to prove your viewpoints for you. Just give one example, or some solid facts that helped shaped the way you think. It is easy...to use google as you said yourself. So do it.
 
You're expecting me, as so often becomes the case, to provide you with a source that proves definitively what I'm saying is true.

Well, there must at least be ONE source with wich you could at least back up SOME of the things you're stating. You make bold claims, but consistently refuse to name even ONE source. I'm starting to think that either there is no source at all, or that you don't want to tell us what your actual sources are because revealing those sources would completely undermine the credibillity of any of our claims.
 
Well, there must at least be ONE source with wich you could at least back up SOME of the things you're stating. You make bold claims, but consistently refuse to name even ONE source. I'm starting to think that either there is no source at all, or that you don't want to tell us what your actual sources are because revealing those sources would completely undermine the credibillity of any of our claims.

And ofcourse i meant Your claims here. Not Our claims.
 
You make bold claims, but consistently refuse to name even ONE source. I'm starting to think that either there is no source at all, or that you don't want to tell us what your actual sources are because revealing those sources would completely undermine the credibillity of any of our claims.

If you're waiting for me to say Alex Jones or some neo-nazi column you're going to be disappointed. I've told you already, I don't follow one source. I cross reference, I read sources from both left and right wing people, from opposing points of view and just googling the claims made in both sides of any argument. X says this, so I google "Is (what X says) true?" for example, to over simplify my process. Then I do the same for Y. I read Telegraph and Daily Mail articles. I read Guardian and Observer articles. I read the comments. I go where I find information. When I find something I don't know about, I google it, and google some more.

I don't rely on sources or experts any more because invariably you find that no matter how good or "solid" their facts are eventually when you dig enough you encounter their bias, whether its political, economic, religious or whatever.

My question for you is, why are you so insistent that there has to be a source, an expert, something "solid". I think you're afraid of really taking a free floating position and making up your own mind.
 
So what do you want, peer reviewed articles? Give me a break. I'm not writing an essay for a degree or to please anyone. The point I've tried to imply more than once is that you can't simply trust the "experts", or anyone. Own your own judgement. YOU have to be the one who thinks - stop relying on others to do it for you. Just because someone has a piece of paper, belongs to a certain institution or organization, or has acknowledged status, does not mean a damn in the end. People still lie. People still make mistakes, have faulty perspectives or make wrong judgements.

You can't cite wikipedia in a university paper, but this is real life not university, and wikipedia has plenty of information collected for you to read and form a judgement on. That's a starting point, not a finishing point. Stop expecting people to deliver a finishing point for you and do some of your own damn work.
 
So what do you want, peer reviewed articles? Give me a break. I'm not writing an essay for a degree or to please anyone. The point I've tried to imply more than once is that you can't simply trust the "experts", or anyone. Own your own judgement. YOU have to be the one who thinks - stop relying on others to do it for you. Just because someone has a piece of paper, belongs to a certain institution or organization, or has acknowledged status, does not mean a damn in the end. People still lie. People still make mistakes, have faulty perspectives or make wrong judgements.

You can't cite wikipedia in a university paper, but this is real life not university, and wikipedia has plenty of information collected for you to read and form a judgement on. That's a starting point, not a finishing point. Stop expecting people to deliver a finishing point for you and do some of your own damn work.

I don't expect anybody to make a "finishing point" for me, and much less would I trust the opinion of someone on a forum using Wikipedia and news articles as a primary source.

You're right, this is not university.

However, I would not vote or make life changing decisions based on news articles or the like.

It's irresponsible.
 
However, I would not vote or make life changing decisions based on news articles or the like.

It's irresponsible.

Neither would I! Please digest what I have said already - I take multiple sources of information, which does include newspapers but not limited to, to get as wider information base as possible, and basically google the shit out of everything and anything buried within that. Plus talking to people first hand, listening to speakers, and so forth. There's not much more one can do really without literally sitting around every hour of the day and doing that.

I can't point you to a source, and I wouldn't want to anyway, because as I've said you always discover errors or inconsistencies with whatever you choose to utilize.. as soon as I post something it would get dissected anyway and the points I find the most resonance with would get lost as others try to impose their view over mine. Likewise I would inevitably do the same to anyone else.. it's par the course on these topics.. no one just goes "Oh yeah! Now I see, I was wrong, I have changed my mind". I've certainly never seen it anyway.

Rather than wanting objective dry facts one should be more concerned with improving their judgement and intuitive ability. Facts often change as history unfolds, or depending on which authority has the podium. The truth changes, in science, politics or what have you. Rarely do they remain solid, and philosophically speaking.. well, let's save that for another conversation. Much better to improve ones thinking ability AND intuitive ability. Intellectual ability will only take you so far anyway, you've got to be able to read people and situations to get the whole picture. Strip away the guff and marketing about the EU project and you see it is not what it says on the tin. Not even close.
 
One of the precepts of critical thinking, as you alluded to, is to alter one's views and opinions as new evidence comes to light.

Would you, then, agree with the fact that it may not have been a good idea to vote for Britain to exit the European Union?
 
"the commission was set up from the start to act as an independant supranational authority separate from governments". So this in no way contradicts the idea that the goal of european integration, is to secure peace and prosperity in europe.

I asked for just ONE source that would at least support SOME of your views, and this is the BEST you've got?
You probably thought:"whahaha...that Wikipedia article is such a long and boring read, they're NEVER gonna read all of it, and now it looks like i actually based my views on something".
 
SS why are you suddenly hiding your man-love for Peter Hitchens? If there's one person I've seen you quote more than anyone on here it's him. So now, when asked for a source or an inspiration, why so quiet on Peter Hitchens? You've posted up loads of his videos. It's the closest thing to hero worship I've seen from anyone for anyone on here.

Why so furtive about your love for him when asked?
 
Stock markets rebound after hysterical Brexit faux-economic scare. The desperate elitist doomsayers couldn't even stretch the economic fear porn more than a couple of days.Next up -- Nexit!!
 
Stock markets rebound after hysterical Brexit faux-economic scare. The desperate elitist doomsayers couldn't even stretch the economic fear porn more than a couple of days.Next up -- Nexit!!

It's too soon to tell what the actual economic consequences are going to be. The rebound is the result ot statements made by the bank of england, saying basically that they will do whatever it takes to prevent the british economy from collapsing. At the same time predicting economic hard times. There's the short term effect, wich is only temporary.
The truth is that we don't even know yet what kind of deal is going to be negotiated. A 'norwegian' or 'swiss' type of deal would basically mean EU membership without the right to vote on EU legislation. That would have minimal economic consequences, but hardly a real victory for brexitters. All kind of institutes in London are now making scenario's and plans on what to do when X,Y or z is going to happen. That will at least mean a delay of investments and in the worst case, many corporations moving their headquarters from london to other european cities.
 
It's too soon to tell what the actual economic consequences are going to be.

Well thanks for that cause if IIRC the world was headed for apocalypse for a whole 2 days after Brexit vote and many voices here were all "I told you so". Now it's "just you wait and see,the economic world is headed for collapse,eventually". You're right,we don't know how it will all shake out but I'm pretty sure the sky won't fall nor will it speed up the second coming.
 
Stock markets !

Are you sure about that plural? The FTSE 100 sure has rebounded, but that relies on multinational companies. The FTSE 250, British based and therefore a far better reflection of the UK economy, fell 13% on Brexit and has recovered little.

So we will hold the Christmas carols for a while shall we? Unless you want to give me the approx. 10% of value my pound has lost?

Just asking.

(PS Standard and Poor has also increased our risk of long term recession by 10% and our credit rating has been downgraded from AAA).

All good though eh?
 
World headed for apocalypse is media hyperbole.

But UK throwing a monkey wrench into their economy is definitely not hyperbole. It's reality - a Brexit cuts off a lot of free access to markets and financial playgrounds that benefited the UK. It's a given.
 
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