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  • EADD Moderators: axe battler | Pissed_and_messed

The UK benefits system

It does genuinely worry me sometimes that I'm more qualified to be the chancellor than the chancellor.
 
I'm more qualified to be the chancellor than the chancellor. The actual chancellor barely qualifies for the human race does he? Surely that's at least a fundamental requirement. Owen has a point about morons in far-too-powerful positions. It's bad enough they're corrupt but clueless and corrupt really is pushing it.
 
noahs-ark-dinosaurs-comic.jpg
 
RLP said:
It does genuinely worry me sometimes that I'm more qualified to be the chancellor than the chancellor.
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But he has more friends ;)


Fwiw I is more qualified with supplementary benefit if ya don't know then get 2
SHM me breadrin he get what I a chat bout set speed safe Mate gets I touch I NEED 2 talk 2 u <3
 
omen_owen mk2 said:
Socrates had it right over 2000 years ago, the proletariat should not be involved in government in any way.
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That's basically Plato's republic - the intellectual heart of all totalitarian govenrments (facsism, totalitarian communism and the vanguardism of violent anarchists). I think i'd rather stick with democracy ta. (though i wouldn't mind the soma if we have the Brave New World version)

If the mass of people are uneducated that's pretty much by design to keep the factories occupied (what with our taylorised school system). If you want to see a vibrant electorate, have a look at Venezuala (jimmy carter as election observer said it was the best process in the world) - chavez spent most of his time in power educating the poorest people in politics and setting up grass roots organisations. The vitality of the democratic process there puts ours to shame, even though the west are doing their best to do a syria/uklraine on it at the moment (before anyone cries 'conspiracy' or 'lefty bollocks', get some links together and we'll see)
 
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RLP said:
I'm sorry everyone, I can't do this anymore it feels dirty. I actually voted green in my postal vote. :D
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I've already left. I'm sure we all have alot more in common than the divisive nature of this thread suggests & I'd prefer to either foster unity, or take my arse elsewhere.

Carry on.

Ismene said:
And the occasional bit of al-laddin! :D
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edit: & yes, Alladin occasionally, which given the rarity of the event, costs almost nothing <3
 
Vurtual said:
That's basically Plato's republic - the intellectual heart of all totalitarian govenrments (facsism, totalitarian communism and the vanguardism of violent anarchists). I think i'd rather stick with democracy ta. (though i wouldn't mind the soma if we have the Brave New World version)
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You can interperet it to justify that sort of government sure, it doesn't have to be like that though.
 
omen_owen mk2 said:
You can interperet it to justify that sort of government sure, it doesn't have to be like that though.
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it's always well-intentioned at the start (at least towards the in-group), but i think that sort of thinking in itself is dangerous (if it actually gets any power) - that sort of in group/out group stuff should ring alarm bells with anyone not in the in group imo (and everyone's in someone's out group).

Ironically it's arguably more or less how things are run now (as shambles said). The same thinking as Edward Bernays (father of modern propaganda) and his sort of modern equivalents the neo conservatives: 'the great unwashed masses couldn't possibly understand the real issues like us captains of industry (or 'intellectuals' as they'd say) - so we should quietly run things behind the scenes while creating simple myths of good and evil to keep them entranced with'.

I think it shows not only contempt but lack of understanding for the mass of 'common' people, who aren't at all 'thick' if you ask me (being one myself) anymore than the average in any group of people. Maybe their 'cultural traits' or the nature of their education make them appear 'thick' to someone with more 'refined' traits, but i'd contest that their raw intelligence (when not measured by class biased methods) will show the same spread as say an equivalent group of the upper class.

Ignorance is not necessarily the same as lack of inherent intelligence - if you're duped into ignorance by authorities who you trust (maybe you should know better), it's not because you're thick but too trusting (which isn't a bad trait). Anyway, the common people these days are very much not duped by the political/corporate establishment - whether this expresses as ukip, respect, or just common views such as 'they're all crooks', this shows awareness that many in the political establishment are still miles away from, believing as they do in the fundamental rightness of the system (handily, as it maintains their privelige)

Don't forget that the thicko masses still managed to have enough about them to make stuff like the peasants revolt, the chartists, spartacus, haitian slave revolt etc happen.

What's wrong with democracy anyway? (bearing in mind we haven't really tried it in the uk yet)
 
I don't think being on benefits should be an overly comfortable experience, IF you are capable of working. It should feed/water you and put a roof over your head. Which it does, easily. If you make it too comfortable, where's the incentive to get off your arse and get a job to better yourself? I was on the dole for about 6 months a few years ago. Ive had a decent education and have fairly good qualifications. I was holding out for a decent job for a while. In the end I took a job as a shelf stacker in a poundshop as I was sick of having no money and being bored in the house all day. I REALLY did not want to work there. It was meant to be a stop gap until I found a decent job, but I stuck at it and worked my arse off for 3 years. 5 promotions later I'm on a good salary and have a company car. There are jobs out there, albeit a lot of shit ones. Someones gotta do 'em.
 
^But why should people feel like they have to work in the first place when they don't get the full value of their work? (or often even a significant percentage) - it's a rigged game, massively in favour of the bosses. If people got a fairer share of the wealth they create, and maybe direct 'ownership' of their workplace, it may be a more worthwhile deal (there are worker-centred models to organise even complex industry, which can work fine (eg germany for the lite version and republican spain for the more full-on one)) - til then i begrudge no-one taking what i consider at least their rightful share of our wealth as a human being.

I don't accept that 'there's no alternative' to unemployment and austerity (the neoliberal/imf recipie) - you don't even have to leave capitalism, just a bit of keynesian full employment would help (they still do it for banks). I believe in universal human rights, which for me has to include universal economic/labour rights, as the human rights agenda was originally to have (though it was left out of the un under us/western pressure)

Obviously how you get there from here is another issue, but i think these sort of ideas should be on the agenda and not reflexively ignored or ridiculed like in the media (which is how most people have forgotten about them when they used to be common currency among the plebs).
 
In Switzerland they tried to vote in a law governing pay. Bosses would not have been able to earn more than 12 times that of their lowest paid employee. Seems like quite a sensible idea.

Would elevating peoples pay in the lowest common denominator jobs not just lead to businesses passing on the increased cost onto consumers via price hikes, bringing everything back to the same level just more pay/more living expenses?
 
ponch said:
In Switzerland they tried to vote in a law governing pay. Bosses would not have been able to earn more than 12 times that of their lowest paid employee. Seems like quite a sensible idea.

Would elevating peoples pay in the lowest common denominator jobs not just lead to businesses passing on the increased cost onto consumers via price hikes, bringing everything back to the same level just more pay/more living expenses?
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More to the point no major corporations would ever do business in your country. Or they would but they would just set up subsidiary companies for paying the grunts, rendering the law pointless.
 
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