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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

US Politics The trump impeachment thread

Lol some people think Trump is getting impeached. That's cute. Thought they would've learned their lesson from the Mueller lies. Gotta keep those ratings up though and impeachment porn is the new thing <3

He is definitely getting impeached. It's extremely unlikely he'll be removed though.

Answer me this, Grimez. If he's innocent, why isn't he absolutely jumping at the chance to put his senior officials (like Bolton), who actually directly interacted with him and aren't relying on mostly second-hand information, on the stand? Instead he ordered them not to and several of them are threatening to sue the House for trying to compel them to take the stand. If their testimonies could once and for all clear Trump's name, why would he be so intent on preventing them from testifying? I want to hear your explanation for this. I suspect maybe you'll say he doesn't want to play into the Dems' game, but if his senior officials can exonerate him, wouldn't it be way more in his best interest to get himself undeniably exonerated? Because right now it looks exactly like someone who is guilty trying his hardest to evade justice. Not only the blocking of the testimonies I'm talking about, but his attacks against the character of those giving testimony, and his suggestion that the whistleblower is a traitor and should be killed (when part of the freedom and beauty of our nation is that one is allowed to come forward and say something against the president). How do you defend what I realize has now become a couple of different issues?

It is absolutely amazing to me how the American public can view what we can see happening with our own eyes in diametrically opposed ways. They got us in a mind fuck, that's for sure.
 
TLB, do you think it's okay for a President to use his executive power to solicit a foreign government to help him

Up to that point, I do indeed fully support a President using executive power to solicit a foreign gvo't to help him....depending upon what he's asking for help about. Getting re-elected? No. Getting dirt on an opponent - whether either is up for election or not? No, to include an outgoing administration soliciting a foreign gov't to create dirt on an upcoming party rival (see Dems soliciting Ukraine regarding Trump). Getting info on if our gov't officials (current or previous) have issued undue pressure or on another gov'ts autonomous operations (fire your investigator because my son is on the board of the company being investigated, and I'm withholding US funds until you comply)? Absolutely. Getting info on why the unqualified son of a VP is on a board collecting salaries and/or funding (see Burisma in Ukraine, see Rosemont Seneca Partners with China) and if it is related to his father being the VP and wielding power for personal gain? Hell yes.

For me, this is the key - what was the reason for the requested investigations? Take down a political rival? Possible. I'm not going to argue that it isn't possible motivation. Find and address corruption by the US Gov't? This I see as a required obligation of the President's office (being over the Executive branch). Is this arguable?
 
So Trump is just another average Joe and she should just take the death threats to herself and her family in stride? Yeah, she’s sooooo unqualified. What a coward! I mean she’s been under literal gunfire, so what if the leader of the free world is sharpening the dull knives in his deplorable drawer to hack her to pieces? That’s just the price you pay for doing your job well, in addition of course to the attorney fees. THANK GOD SUCH AN UNSTABLE WOMAN HAS BEEN REPLACED! (with someone who admires her and speaks favorably of her).

So, you are confirming the view that she is a capable woman, able to handle stressful positions and interactions. Do you honestly feel she's intimidated by tweets? I do apologize, I'm not tuned into twitter so I (intentionally) will miss a lot of what happens there, to include any specific threats, even by Trump. Did he actually threaten her (won't surprise me)? Or restate she didn't meet his expectations of the job (she sucked, in his view)?

Attorney fees? I don't know the context there, help is appreciated.

But yeah, I guess the bigger bombshell was that at least three people heard and watched an ambassador, who typically doesn’t access POTUS directly, ring Trump from an open line on a restaurant veranda in Kiev and answered the (apparently quite loud) question that was apparently all Trump cared about, which was that yes Zelensky would do his bidding regarding the Bidens. I guess the most corrupt thing happening in the Ukraine was Burisma putting Hunter Biden on their board. Thank God Trump is there to fight corruption!

Ok, so we have THREE!!!! people who heard the ambassador's side of the conversation? And they have THEIR impression of that side of the conversation? Stop the presses.

And if you don’t find it compelling that Trump ruined the career of someone for doing a great job, which is something attested to by numerous people in the hearings thus far, someone who was committed to anticorruption measures, just because some corrupt individuals smeared her, then I guess her testimony was only important because it establishes the level of Trump’s involvement in this whole pathetic saga.

Ruined her career? First, the position serves at the will of the President. That she kept it through a few administrations, good for her. That doesn't mean she keeps it indefinitely. Every President can fire and hire at will in this area, correct? I will admit I know nothing of her, or her work history. I do accept corruption has existed in the Ukraine for quite awhile. It does beg the question of how an honest person can survive so long in such a a corrupt environment. Personally, knowing nothing of the details, I'd give more credence to her being honest than anything Guliani may have fed Trump on the matter, but bottom line, I'd want to know more and am open to all possibilities on how good or corrupt she may have been. At a minimum, I would accept that she likely was not aligned with Trump's intent and vision on foreign policy with Ukraine. I think the chances are very high on that, as we've seen many other 'established' parties get fired or quit for being unaligned with his direction.

So, "her testimony was only important because it establishes the level of Trump’s involvement"....has his involvement ever been in question? The whole damn impeachment is of Trump and his supposed quid pro quo bribery. She brought us nothing. Nothing.
 
Not asked of me, but I'll give these a shot:

Answer me this, Grimez. If he's innocent, why isn't he absolutely jumping at the chance to put his senior officials (like Bolton), who actually directly interacted with him and aren't relying on mostly second-hand information, on the stand? Instead he ordered them not to and several of them are threatening to sue the House for trying to compel them to take the stand. If their testimonies could once and for all clear Trump's name, why would he be so intent on preventing them from testifying? I want to hear your explanation for this.

Fist - there is separation of powers. The way I understand our constitution is that it keeps the checks and balances such that none of the branches gains control over the others. In this instance, if Trump gives the House everything it asks for, he sets the precedent (which by Executive privilege he should not) that every President remains under scrutiny by Congress, thereby weakening the Executive branch to have following Presidents either afraid to do their job out of fear of constant investigation and harrassment, or at least paralyzed by it. The Executive branch needs to remain honest and accountable to the people (through Congress, and also at the ballot box), but there are things that a President must take on that should not be done under a microscope or fear of a colonoscopy throughout the exercise. Personally, I see this more of a political play and not part of Trump's intent, but it is well within his rights and authority.

Second - there is the non-stop harassment he has suffered from Dems since before the election. I'd find it hard to believe anyone can't see the endless attacks he has sustained, none of which have been proven to a point of any sort of 'conviction', hasn't caused him issue? There's too many to list, but the biggest - Russia Collusion - did garner an investigation and came up empty. Whether Trump is guilty of anything today or not doesn't really matter. It hasn't all along. Once one accusation is proven wrong the Dems level another. My second point is that he has nothing to gain from cooperating. If he provides witness who say 'bullshit' and 'nothing there' then the Dems move on to the next accusation, but first there is more circus testimonies and depositions that get spun six ways to Sunday but ultimately don't do anything but sling mud in every direction. If he withholds witnesses (again, within his right), it keeps the Dems chewing on the same current bone (quid pro quo bribery), he knows where they are and what their coming at him with and he controls his side of the story. If these folks could exonerate him, he can hold them until it will most cripple the Dems in the eyes of the public - he retains control. If these folks would sink him (looking at Giuliani, IMO), he can hold them as long as possible and buy more time, more distractions, etc. He may still get sunk, but he can hold control as long as possible if it is bad for him.


Because right now it looks exactly like someone who is guilty trying his hardest to evade justice. Not only the blocking of the testimonies I'm talking about, but his attacks against the character of those giving testimony, and his suggestion that the whistleblower is a traitor and should be killed (when part of the freedom and beauty of our nation is that one is allowed to come forward and say something against the president). How do you defend what I realize has now become a couple of different issues?


Does look like someone guilty. Also looks like someone tired of being accused, investigated, seen members of staff turn on him and others get arrested as Mueller tried to find something on him.

Him attacking other people's character, well, inexcusable. I can only say it reflects more poorly on him than anything he's trying to cast on others.


It is absolutely amazing to me how the American public can view what we can see happening with our own eyes in diametrically opposed ways. They got us in a mind fuck, that's for sure.

America has been mindfkd for awhile. We just didn't realize how bad. I'm afraid for what comes next.
 
It's not just the Americans.

And what good is an impeachment if the dude will still win the next election, handily I might add...

There is only one way
 
lol @ separation of powers you mean Russia vs USA? That line is blurring too bro.

P.S. Make Russia Great Again Trump Train 2020 MCCONNEL'S 3 MILLION RUSSIAN BILLIONAIRE MONEY

dip his fat quadruple chin in semi-liquid brine-butter and roll him around in 1,000,000 ruble notes

fuck you all and kill yourselves Russia apologizers (NOT TLB; I LOVE TLB I am speaking to the Giuliani IRL types NOT Bl'ers I LOVE ALL BL'ERS LOVE YOU ALL <3)
 
lol @ separation of powers you mean Russia vs USA? That line is blurring too bro.

P.S. Make Russia Great Again Trump Train 2020 MCCONNEL'S 3 MILLION RUSSIAN BILLIONAIRE MONEY

dip his fat quadruple chin in semi-liquid brine-butter and roll him around in 1,000,000 ruble notes

fuck you all and kill yourselves Russia apologizers (NOT TLB; I LOVE TLB I am speaking to the Giuliani IRL types NOT Bl'ers I LOVE ALL BL'ERS LOVE YOU ALL <3)
but that russia thing has no evidence apart from trump basically knowing someone who knows someone who knows a russian heck i bet you know someone who knows someone who knows a russian does that make you a spy furthermore the man is rich he doesnt need to bloody be a spy hes 70 years of age born in the us and raised im not really seeing a motive or am I missing something??
 
So, you are confirming the view that she is a capable woman, able to handle stressful positions and interactions.
I have no reason to doubt the people who worked with her, as well as the guy who replaced her after she was so unceremoniously booted.

Do you honestly feel she's intimidated by tweets? I do apologize, I'm not tuned into twitter so I (intentionally) will miss a lot of what happens there, to include any specific threats, even by Trump. Did he actually threaten her (won't surprise me)? Or restate she didn't meet his expectations of the job (she sucked, in his view)?
She was intimidated by his tweets, threats on her family’s life and her own by rabid Trump fans, knowing he was behind a smear campaign against her, the personalized attacks on her work during her testimony....he is the leader of the free world, not just some incel.
Attorney fees? I don't know the context there, help is appreciated.
Her attorneys (plural) aren’t doing this gratis.

Ok, so we have THREE!!!! people who heard the ambassador's side of the conversation? And they have THEIR impression of that side of the conversation? Stop the presses

They actually heard both sides of the conversation because Trump was so loud.
You might like to hear how the three of them recall the conversation before you dismiss it. It eviscerates the “Trump had no idea what his shadow government channel was doing.” It eviscerates his timeline. It establishes a lot of points that have been denied by Republicans. Well until now.

Ruined her career?
Yep. Read the tweets. Read the rough notes of the infamous call.

First, the position serves at the will of the President. That she kept it through a few administrations, good for her. That doesn't mean she keeps it indefinitely. Every President can fire and hire at will in this area, correct? I will admit I know nothing of her, or her work history. I do accept corruption has existed in the Ukraine for quite awhile. It does beg the question of how an honest person can survive so long in such a a corrupt environment. Personally, knowing nothing of the details, I'd give more credence to her being honest than anything Guliani may have fed Trump on the matter, but bottom line, I'd want to know more and am open to all possibilities on how good or corrupt she may have been. At a minimum, I would accept that she likely was not aligned with Trump's intent and vision on foreign policy with Ukraine. I think the chances are very high on that, as we've seen many other 'established' parties get fired or quit for being unaligned with his direction.

You mean she should have worked with Giuliani on the Biden investigation? Because that is what Sondland said was the only thing Trump cared about regarding Ukraine after calling him. (At least that’s the sworn testimony of one official who heard both sides of the call, who has a reputation for speaking out, as he did under Obama. He won an award for it, actually.)
It’s such bs that Trump cares about corruption. No one believes he did or does.

So, "her testimony was only important because it establishes the level of Trump’s involvement"....has his involvement ever been in question? The whole damn impeachment is of Trump and his supposed quid pro quo bribery. She brought us nothing. Nothing.
No, but okay.
 
and the Trumps and and Clintons also used to be friends so what's your point

160909161451-trump-clinton-2-super-169.jpg



I really wanted to believe that once trump took the seat he'd just focus on shit posting and doing his stand up routine and let the experts handle all the domestic and foreign policy but looks like I was wrong.
 
Nothing is more hypocritical than an American Democrat. The Clintons are evil and spend time on pedo island and you're all on a witch hunt. Stop embarrassing yourselves

What do you know about it? Maybe try living here before you have such a strong and insulting opinion. Have you been watching this stuff? Has it been upsetting your hopes for the future of your country? Maybe step back and don't judge.
 
second time asking @Lucy20

i'm an american democrat. would you please explain - perhaps with a handful of examples which should be easy to find if there's nothing more hypocritical than me - why i'm so hypocritical?

thanks.

alasdair
 
i'm an american democrat. would you please explain - perhaps with a handful of examples which should be easy to find if there's nothing more hypocritical than me - why i'm so hypocritical?

thanks.

alasdair

Besides the time that you admitted that you can be/are hypocritical?
 
Also it comes across as arrogant and is borderline bullying to demand someone answers your question. If you feel compelled then you can criticize someone's remarks and offer your own examples as to show what they're saying is indeed false. But that takes a bit of effort and it would not be possible in this case because the original statement was true.
 
thanks for your input grimez but i'm rather more interested in the op's answer.

and i'm not demanding anything. simply asking - if lucy20 is unable or unwilling to answer, that's fine.

alasdair
 
What do you know about it? Maybe try living here before you have such a strong and insulting opinion. Have you been watching this stuff? Has it been upsetting your hopes for the future of your country? Maybe step back and don't judge.

I have been paying attention, that's why I commented. From an outsider the American Democrats are hypocrites. Clinton was on pedo island with no security detail and you barely metion that but Trump said "grab her by the pussy" and you were calling him everything and it was plastered everywhere.
Maybe you're in to close to see how you are
 
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