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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

US Politics The trump impeachment thread

thujone said:
True, I'm not looking to derail this thread but it's just mindboggling how Trump is largely viewed by the public as some great evil while apparently completely oblivious to the fact that Democrats are obviously (Occam's Razor) murdering anyone inconvenient to them.

How many years has it been since Noam Chomsky started talking about manufactured consent? Why does the public seem to be even less critical now?

So to the question of should Trump be impeached ... well, no, not if impeaching Trump brings the country back to a Democrat leader who will be held to an entirely different standard by the Fourth Estate that is controlling the public discourse and owned largely by people who publicly support the Democratic party.
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He won't get removed, but he SHOULD get impeached, because he's corrupt, he's running a crony government, he's disastrous in foreign policy, he's undermining environmental protections, and the latest testimony, unless you want to take the position that it's not real, shows that he abused his power for personal benefit, and attempted to involve a foreign power in an American election. I don't want Hillary either, but I don't want Trump. If we don't at least attempt to impeach, it says to future leaders that it's fine to do this stuff. We need to stop being so apathetic and easily led and do something about the situation we find ourselves in. There are a couple of candidates I feel pretty good about on the Democrat side right, but not most of them.

Trump is an egomaniacal tool, it's difficult for me to understand how people can watch him talk and interact with people and not see it. I also struggle to see how he's doing a great job. He's done a few things I can support but a lot of things I really, really can't. He's weakening our position in the world, in tactical strength and in relationships with allies. The ramifications of what any president does ripple out over a number of years. We have not seen what Trump has caused yet because events take time to unfold. His actions in the middle east are going to fuck us over. The only reason I see people supporting the move is because they say we need to bring the troops home, but he sent them to Iraq, not home And abandoned some of our most important allies against ISIS, and showed other nations that we shouldn't be trusted. He strengthened Russia's position over there. He also strengthened Russia's position when he withheld financial aid that had already been alloted by congress, from Ukraine. I don't even think he did it on purpose, I think he's just very easily manipulated by appealing to his ego.

History is going to look very poorly on Mr Trump.

Right now we're looking at bad choices all around (well actually I think Bernie has the right idea but I'm not sure it will work, I think he would have gotten elected last time but the right has screamed SOCIALIST RED SCARE OMG REMEMBER COMMIES? for long enough that everyone is too scared to elect someone who actually wants our tax dollars to benefit us). But just because Hillary is evil, it doesn't mean we shouldn't take appropriate action against leaders who are also bad. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
 
Xorkoth said:
He won't get removed, but he SHOULD get impeached, because he's corrupt, he's running a crony government, he's disastrous in foreign policy, he's undermining environmental protections, and the latest testimony, unless you want to take the position that it's not real, shows that he abused his power for personal benefit, and attempted to involve a foreign power in an American election. I don't want Hillary either, but I don't want Trump. If we don't at least attempt to impeach, it says to future leaders that it's fine to do this stuff. We need to stop being so apathetic and easily led and do something about the situation we find ourselves in. There are a couple of candidates I feel pretty good about on the Democrat side right, but not most of them.

Trump is an egomaniacal tool, it's difficult for me to understand how people can watch him talk and interact with people and not see it. I also struggle to see how he's doing a great job. He's done a few things I can support but a lot of things I really, really can't. He's weakening our position in the world, in tactical strength and in relationships with allies. The ramifications of what any president does ripple out over a number of years. We have not seen what Trump has caused yet because events take time to unfold. His actions in the middle east are going to fuck us over. The only reason I see people supporting the move is because they say we need to bring the troops home, but he sent them to Iraq, not home And abandoned some of our most important allies against ISIS, and showed other nations that we shouldn't be trusted. He strengthened Russia's position over there. He also strengthened Russia's position when he withheld financial aid that had already been alloted by congress, from Ukraine. I don't even think he did it on purpose, I think he's just very easily manipulated by appealing to his ego.

History is going to look very poorly on Mr Trump.
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...lol, every president has done shady acts that should have them impeached, its not like hes the first. Come on, Bush? He should have been hung in public for his handshakes with Al-Qaeda. Obama? We let the fucking Muslim brotherhood run and infiltrate our country. Trump is s blessing.
 
The Muslim brotherhood stuff is bunk. But yeah, Bush was fucked. Anyway my entire point is that it;s unacceptable and we've gotten massively complacent if we think that Trump is awesome because he's only somewhat corrupt.

My main problem with him though, is 3 things:
  • His repealing of environmental protections. Anyone remember how in the 80s there was smog so bad people were getting sick and had to stay inside, in big cities? Acid rain was damaging ecosystems? We put environmental protections in place and the situation is vastly improved. And he is repealing those protections, some have already been repealed and he's working on more. Not just him, his administration. Forget climate change, because generally a segment of people just entirely refute the environmental protections stuff because they don't believe in climate change, but there are many other negative effects of removing environmental protections. I think it's the most important issue. We're seeing ocean acidifcation, the death of coral reefs all over the world, a 75% reduction in total biomass of flying insects, including pollinators. Earthworms are having a harder time reproducing because of microplastics. These insects are absolutely fundamental to the world's ecosystems. If we lose pollinators, how will we eat? If the soil isn't properly made, how will plants live? This shit is serious. It's gonna get ugly quick. Removing environmental protections for the sake of profit for big business is absolutely unconscionable, and there is no way I can support this administration because of it.
  • While screaming FAKE NEWS, Trump's administration quietly repealed media antitrust laws and Sinclair group has been buying up a large majority of local news stations and forcing them to report certain things. This paves the way easily to state-controlled media and is a HUGE red flag, or it should be. It is to me.
  • He is a narcissist who is led by a string by appealing to his ego. It's abundantly clear. His foreign policy has been a disaster. I already elaborated on that in my previous post. I'd like to see someone address those points.
 
phenethylo J said:

lol trumpers have become so desperate they are resorting to far leftist tactics
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They are literally being triggered by due process. That's hilarious.

OrbitalCombustion said:
He owns the goverment, why would he let himself be impeached?
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I laughed out loud.
 
Trump is the biggest sociopathic cunt I've ever seen. He's so in your face about it. He is clearly racist. He says "Every one get along." with a wink and a nod to the KKK. All the racists are crawling out from under their trailer feeling like they can say and do anything to others who aren't white. I have never seen so much blatant racism since he has become president.

What's funny is I actually used to love Trump when he would call into Howard Stern's show and talk about who the hottest women are. He was hilarious.

Ah well, it's all a part of the plan anyway. If you look at the bigger picture, all of these people are on the same team, Democrats and Republicans. They want to cause division amongst us because while we're bickering at each other, they are right on track with taking over. It's just a game.
 
Pluggle said:
Don't take criticism to heart, source or no source.
It's no big deal, really .
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Uh, okay...

OrbitalCombustion said:
I think its hilarious that you actually think he will be impeached. He owns the goverment, why would he let himself be impeached? He put all his people in positions of power and converted many others. Youve already seen them unsuccessfully try to get dirt on him. It isnt happening and TBH hes doing a fucking fantastic job and will be reelected. I put money on it.
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He’ll be impeached. It’s unlikely he’ll be indicted.
At this point, I think it’s more likely than not that he’ll be re-elected. I really hope not.

We’ll see. These are uncertain times.
 
Part of me doesn't want him to get impeached since I know the temper tantrum he throws in his concession speech will be such a priceless part of history and he'll never shut up about the election being rigged. Even though he won the last election he still claimed that over 9 million people voted illegally since his ego just couldn't handle that she won the popular vote. I'm not trying to dispute the electoral college just trying to point how that he's just as much of a pathetic whiny little child as those far leftest you are talking. Imagine being so emotionally weak that you can't even handle the fact that your 12 year old son is taller than you.

How can you even take someone who was a lifelong democrat that hired illegal immigrants to work at his businesses he opened with daddy's money seriously when they claim they will fight illegal immigration. The wall was just a slogan that took off way better than expected and he saw it as a way to get allot of votes and build a monument to himself.


I agree with you that the left focused too much on impeachment(rather than his overall incompetence and policy issues) in the beginning and in general I don't like the direction the party in spite of having very liberal views. Unlike allot of anti-trump people I personally don't think he's a full blooded racist or white supremacist; just a narcissist who feels nothing for the pain of other people and is clueless to how the real world works.


I honestly wanted to be wrong about him and hoped that he'd let the experts handle the important shit like foreign policy but arently he knows more about Isis than our top generals.
 
CoastTwoCoast said:
Ah well, it's all a part of the plan anyway. If you look at the bigger picture, all of these people are on the same team, Democrats and Republicans. They want to cause division amongst us because while we're bickering at each other, they are right on track with taking over. It's just a game.
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Yep. There are a few people who aren't part of that system and at I legitimately believe are trying to effect positive change. But for the most part they're laughing at us as we fight each other and ignore all their moves in the background. Trump wasn't part of the system, which is why people liked him, but he's just in it for personal gain, he doesn't give any fucks about anyone else and he's happy to take whatever he can. I wish people would see this. It's okay to admit you were fooled again.
 
www-m.cnn.com

Judge says impeachment inquiry is legal and justifies disclosing grand jury material | CNN Politics

A federal judge on Friday gave a legal endorsement to the House Democrats' impeachment probe into President Donald Trump and ordered the Justice Department to release grand jury information redacted from special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation.
www-m.cnn.com www-m.cnn.com

So this a huge development. The Mueller investigation has some serious dirt (if you didn’t read the report, you should, and that was just what was deemed to be in the purview of the investigation), and it could change impeachment into a huge, sprawling beast (which would be interesting but probably not the best thing for the 2020 election).

But this development legitimizes the impeachment inquiry as a process and gives Dems some serious juice to leak if they don’t use it in the invest. Win/win.
 
Eh, he USES the power he was given and seems to be effective as he doesn't bumble around and get involved in red tape with public servants who are equally as in it for themselves as he is.


There's no case here, what are you Americans? Nation of sore losers ?

Seems that way personally.

It's harder to establish an opponent who would win on good merit than just beat down someone who you dislike but if anti Trumpers (democrats) can't do any better than what they've come up with already then what chance do you have next time?


Mind you if he's impeached or assassinated the whinging will stop at least.
 
I just look at the facts. When all over the world the same things are being reported, and only refuted by fringe sources, I believe what everyone is saying. I don't believe the Mueller report is a fabrication. I don't believe the damning testimony given a few days ago is a fabrication. I don't believe the facts about the middle east are fabrications. I KNOW the policies I oppose that he has pushed and passed are real. I do also believe there is a Trump hate campaign and the obsessive coverage of him is bad, too. But when I look at actual results, I oppose Trump. It's possible to hold both of these positions. it's possible to oppose Trump without being some hysterical slavering Trump hater.

It's not being a "sore loser" to oppose someone politically. In fact that's the entire purpose of democracy. I don't think Trump is calculatingly evil, like some others (Clinton). However I think he's bad for this country and I think I have a right, in fact a duty, to express that sentiment. Should we just accept whoever is elected and shut up? That sounds awfully like a dictatorship. Protest is the most American thing there is.

I believe my country is heading (and has been for some time) in a really bad direction. I think Trump campaigned on being the solution and is not succeeding at all. Of course I care about this. I want someone to shake up the status quo too. I get why people voted for him. But it's time to face up to the facts. He's not draining the swamp. He's not making things better for the middle class. Therefore I want him out. I want ALL politicians and publixc servants to be held accountable for breaking the law. Just because past presidents haven;t been doesn't mean Trump should get a pass.

This is basic logical sense. I don't get this "sore loser" argument. It's just a way to try to silence opposition. I will fight for anyone's right to voice criticism of any politicians. If Bernie wins in 2020, I'm not gonna come around here telling people they're sore losers when they complain, because their opinion will be valid, just as mine is now.

Also, I still haven't seen anyone actually address and refute my points. It's always some one-liner that sidesteps the point and essentially insults me for having a difference of opinion, while not providing any considered points about what exactly he has done that has been so good. It's pretty telling.

Pluggle said:
Mind you if he's impeached or assassinated the whinging will stop at least.
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No it won't, we Americans love to whine. Of course, we do it correctly, without the "g" ;)
 
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. Should we just accept whoever is elected and shut up?
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Well...yes to be honest. Someone wins, some one loses. That's democracy, win some lose some. Dictatorships are pretty much the same in the end and less quibbling anout who should have won lol

In your peculiar system the whole Republican v Democrat thing is not even the issue mostly since the bloke is not a life long public servant as you know.


So what if he is at times a bad image, that is not an impeachable offense. He didnt collude, even if he did he is a bloody noob and shouldnt have been able to be elected ffs.

Think kanye west will know when a russisn dude is using buisness ties to influence shit too?

America is always trying to meddle in other countries shit, like Venezuela and telling other countries to choose China or USA? What is this, primary school?

I doubt anyone cares about America that much and just find ways to work around either a bumbling indecisive Obama or dodgy Clinton or idiot Trump.


Christ- lying about getting a blow job or sex whatever with Clinton was a total entertainment drama only, at least that had some kind of interesting and less long winded not picking storyline. Who fucking cares? Everyone cheats at that level.

I'm not saying you are just a sore loser personally since you are more than capable of being pragmatic, can actually talk about the issue and not just refer back to personal insults on a known narcissistic public speaking fail Trump.

I'm not saying that anyone in particular is but some of you are , just admit it.


Will have to re read your points again and again as not as intelligent as you and just going to a trump thread to get disappointed again that it's just the same shit, totally my fault and need a life obv.



Yes there's nothing wrong with clinging on to any faint glimmer that he can get fired or whatever but seriously, it's been years and pretty god damn old so either keep going like a broken bloody record if that's what you feel like doing and put up with the occasional "get over it" from blow ins like me and attempts at discussion with non Trump haters who are NOT TRUMP so don't take your shit out on them either. Whatever. It's silly, some of you should be sent to your rooms and given no dinner.

Anyway what else can any person intent on ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT DO?

Well, one of your former staff and aside that a very educated, witty and easy to get along with loungers is doing something about it for real, if some of u are on fb you'll know. Some rally about Sanders.

(Suggested to him to come here and get you lot off your bums and into action but that's up to him).


Impeach? I say assassinate him now to just cut the shit or yeah, he won so get over it.
 
Trump being elected is tacitly acknowledged by the process of impeachment. Otherwise, he’d be in court constantly with all the lawsuits piling up.

The idea that any politician should be allowed to do whatever they want because they were elected runs counter to the fundamental principles of a representative democracy.

And yes, barring deus ex machina, Trump’s going to be impeached. A lot of people are risking a lot to make this happen, and it’s not because they have a political axe to grind. It’s because what he did isn’t politics as usual, and runs counter to the interests of the Americans and others, like the Ukrainians.
 
Pluggle said:
So what if he is at times a bad image, that is not an impeachable offense.
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No, of course not. What is an impeachable offense is his involvement with a foreign government to get dirt on a political rival for the 2020 election, and in withholding aid to Ukraine over it, which put lives at risk for a petty self-serving gain. It is clear that this did happen at this point with the latest testimony. This is the kind of thing we have impeachment for. The correct thing to do here is impeach (which means there is a formal trial and investigation, and the white house doesn't get to pussyfoot around and withhold information anymore). He probably won't get removed but it's important the facts are known and that he be held accountable for this so that he doesn't just get away with anything he wants going forard... so that future presidents can't geta way with whatever they want. He appears to be a seriousn threat to our foreign policy and relationships and he seems incapable of coducting himself with a modocum of anything but short-sighted personal grabs. Explain to me how wishing for our constitutional protections against this kind of thing being exericsed means I'm a "sore loser"? As soon as you lose the ability to protest and voice criticisms of a country's leader, you have suddenly become authoritiarian. Stop trying to police my expression on how I feel, I'm doing my patriotic duty. It's weird that you're trying to shut down that dialogue by sort of shaming us.

This is gone beyond a stupid tribal thing. The fact that tribalism colors the perception of this moment in huistory is shameful. We should be looking at the facts and thinking "this president has committed a serious crime that sets a horrible precedent for our global foreign policy and relastionships and credibility. It's time to realize that, get our heads out of our asses, and look at this with clear sight. This is very alarming and should be to everyone (Americans anyway, of which you are not ).
 
OrbitalCombustion said:
This is old but a start - https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...-in-just-20-months-relentless-promise-keeping. If you are at all invested in stocks or retirement then youre witnessing record performance in the markets. You realize we are slaves to China on paper, Trump is trying his damndest to reduce that but we all know the next POTUS will eradicate the progress because greed is a hell of motivator. Most presidents are puppets which is why a variation on the norm seems like an atrocity.
[/QUOTE
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This statement is simply not true and I don't know why this hasn't been refuted by anybody. Stocks began to rise under Obama and haven't gained very much under
Trump and at a great cost in deficit. If you look at the stock gains over the last 10yrs you can see that stocks actually became stagnant at the precise time that Trumps tax cuts went into effect in Jan of 2018.
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I highly doubt you are invested in stocks because anybody who has been invested in stocks for any considerable length of time would know that beyond Trump's false claims(who knew Trump lies and exagerates) there is no basis in reality. The S&P 500 had its worst year since the recession began in 2008 last year. After falling 14% in the final three months of 2018 it was actually down for the year. At the writing of the article below Aug 13, broad measure stocks from the S&P 500 were up 29% total since Trump took office, which is good but it is actually below the 45% stocks gained during the same period for Obama. They stand just slightly above that at the moment and as recent as Oct 2 and the writing of the second article, they were even lower and had only managed to move a whopping 15 pts over the last 2yrs. Also the 70 or so pt gain over the last month to give a slight boost to those Oct 2 numbers has only come about because he has promised to delay tariffs on China so that he can try to save face for his election bid as his foreign policy and impeachment prospects are threatening his already dismal approval ratings.



The overall stock numbers have been a tale of up and down, with an initial spike that came on the heals of his 1.5 trillion in tax cuts that are driving America's record deficit projections but overall they have been completely stagnant since the tax cuts took effect and they have come at a great cost.
16262

None of this is an impeachable offense, we have plenty of other stuff for that but it is an easy to read layout of stock growth for Trump supporters.
 
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somnilicious said:
This statement is simply not true and I don't know why this hasn't been refuted by anybody. Stocks began to rise under Obama and haven't gained very much under
Trump and at a great cost in deficit. If you look at the stock gains over the last 10yrs you can see that stocks actually became stagnant at the precise time that Trumps tax cuts went into effect in Jan of 2018.



I highly doubt you are invested in stocks because anybody who has been invested in stocks for any considerable length of time would know that beyond Trump's false claims(who knew Trump lies and exagerates) this has no basis in reality. The S&P 500 had its worst year since the recession began in 2008 last year. After falling 14% in the final three months of 2018 it was actually down for the year. At the writing of the article below Aug 13, broad measure stocks from the S&P 500 were up 29% total since Trump took office, which is good but it is actually below the 45% stocks gained during the same period for Obama. They stand just slightly above that at the moment and as recent as Oct 2 and the writing of the second article, they were even lower and had only managed to move a whopping 15 pts over the last 2yrs. Also the 70 or so pt gain over the last month to give a slight boost to those Oct 2 numbers has only come about because he has promised to delay tariffs on China so that he can try to save face for his election bid as his foreign policy and impeachment prospects are threatening his already dismal approval ratings.



The overall stock numbers have been a tail of up and down, with an initial spike that came on the heals of his 1.5 trillion in tax cuts that are driving America's record deficit projections
View attachment 16262
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I dont care who started it, Trump took it to heights unseen; and dont tell me my fucking finances and business I think I know my livelihood better than you. If I said im invested I wasnt asking for your opinion about my source of income.
 
OrbitalCombustion said:
I dont care who started it, Trump took it to heights unseen; and dont tell me my fucking finances and business I think I know my livelihood better than you. If I said im invested I wasnt asking for your opinion about my source of income.
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The graph shows plain as day that Trump hasn't done anything for stocks..... It speaks for itself. Stocks literally go stagnant directly when the tax cuts go into effect in Jan of 2018. You can go to the macrotrends page and look at the last 10yrs. The original graph on the page allows you to slide a vertical bar that shows growth stopping at the date of the cuts and up until the Oct of this year point in the graph pts have actually been lost.
 
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somnilicious said:
The graph shows plain as day that Trump hasnt done anything for stocks..... It speaks for itself.
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Thats an overview. The stocks i’ve invested in are crypto related and Trump hasnt hindered that in the slighest. I dont use fabricated graphs as the source for the measure of my success. Im sorry you lost money, doesnt mean everyone got dealt your hand.
 
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OrbitalCombustion said:
Thats an overview. The stocks i’ve invested in are crypto related and Trump hasnt hindered that in the slighest. I dont use fabricated graphs as my the source for the measure of my success. Im sorry you lost money, doesnt mean everyone got dealt your hand.
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Lol.... Look dude. I didn't lose money and I'm not making personal attacks on your finances. I am sorry I made the statement about doubting you have invested. I am simply refuting the fact that Trump's economic policy has had a positive effect on stocks and the broader economy, other than putting money in the top 1%'s pockets and increasing our deficit at rates unseen before..... Sorry.... Don't take it personal. It's not a fabricated graph it is the Dow Jones industrial. It is taken from macrotrends stock page, which isn't a politically aligned source.
 
somnilicious said:
Lol.... Look dude. I didn't lose money and I'm not making personal attacks on your finances. I am sorry I made the statement about doubting you have invested. I am simply refuting the fact that Trump's economic policy has had a positive effect on stocks and the broader economy, other than putting money in the top 1%'s pockets and increasing our deficit at rates unseen before..... Sorry.... Don't take it personal. It's not a fabricated graph it is the Dow Jones industrial. It is taken from macrotrends stock page, which isn't a politically aligned source.
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All i’ve heard is we hit some record numbers, this was all over the news more than once. Judging by my own portfolio and many friends and family, our numbers have swelled generously since Trump was inaugurated. That’s my experience. As far as the graph, that may be current conditions but at one point in his term the records were shattered.
 
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