The "true nature" of the 2C's.

[AlyDrops]

I should add, OP, that while I'm still personally very much in support of the 2C family and still don't think they are very difficult to handle at all compared to many other psychedelics, I would never recommend them to a first-timer. I always suggest that people start with either acid or shrooms, preferably shrooms, so that they can get a taste of what the classic psychedelic scene of the '60s was like, and then they can decide what to do. I've had friends who tried 2C-I as their first psychedelic and were really put off by the speediness and psychotic-psychedelic nature of it who started off with a bad view of psychedelics from it. But I've also had friends who tried acid and shrooms first just for the experience who were never planning to really become psychonauts who then later came to love the 2Cs, especially 2C-I, and after a while of using it they became really interested in tripping and wanted to try other things again. I think that's pretty cool.

 

[Vader]

Are shrooms, morning glory, HBWR, weed, coca plant, kava kava, poppies, valerian root, khat, salvia, coffee plant, tobacco, syrian rue, passion flower, ayahuasca, toads, etc. or any combination thereof (with various dosages, mind you) really not enough get fucked up on?

Ayahuasca? You are mix two plants in one drink? You am go too far! You am play god!

 

[Propyl Power]

I've noticed many of the same issues with 2C-*'s, & synthetic phenethylamines in general, as the OP...

It's simply a double-edged sword, & the same seems true for many plant entheogens as well... if you think that the Ayahuasca scene, for example, is all love, light, & psychic balance, then you are sorely mistaken!

I find it tremendously interesting how psychedelics, natural or man-made, reflect the context of their creation & use - perhaps via some kind of morphogenic field effect. Many of Shulgin's discoveries seem to have absorbed his personality - wise-cracking, irreverent, sometimes acerbic - & also his scientific paradigm. LSD is more reflective of Hofmann's Swiss precision. Aya, on the other hand, seems mostly indifferent to this analytical tinkering; it is as raw and primordial as the jungle itself.

So I tend to treat them like people - I can learn certain things from a scientist which I couldn't from a jungle sorcerer, and vice-versa. Provided that you're aware of the paradigmatic slant of whom you're conversing with, the gems of insight can be gleaned from the 'personal' perspective, which can be brought on board or left behind.

I think it's a good idea to learn from many voices and paradigms, without necessarily subscribing to any of them.


A final note: I have tried 2C-B, 2C-I, 2C-E, & 2C-P (& 2C-T-2). For me, 2C-P is unquestionably superior. It has more 'integrity', or something like that.
@ the OP - I can't speak for 2C-C, but I don't expect that you will be pleasantly surprised by 2C-B. Some people rate it highly, but I have always found it to be purely recreational, superficial, & ego-reinforcing, with that icky artificial vibe that many of us, well, hate.

 

[A Psychoanalytix]

I have and do use DMT, Salvia, MXE, Ketamine, ...

And you think MXE is not involved in your retrospectives?

i also think 2c-b is shallow and nauseaus-ill ... but had only 3 trips. one of my two 2c-e trips was totally insane (extremly saturated with pure colorful ehrm infrastructures - but far away from me) and .. however, my candidates for your 2c descriptions ("inhumane" etc) are ketamine and mxe.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

I have had beautiful ego death before, but this experience is... there just doesn't seem to be any humanity in it. It's something that, like you said, a human mind seems to automatically and instinctually assign some kind of sinister nature to. It's a cold depth that seems to instantly cause not only you as a human being, but you as a living thing, as an existence in general, to recoil in disgust.

And here we are again, like I said before, GENERALIZING, that's what's getting people on your case like this. Replace this with "my mind" or "some people's minds" and we would not have an issue. Also the way you phrase a number of your statements (not in the above quote) makes it sound like the substance is the agent of ill, rather than your own unique neurological/psychological makeup. I think there is value in what you say, but I'd frame it under the lens that certain people are unable to tolerate certain psychedelics well, in spite of their ability to handle others perfectly fine. And you show well that there is no universally recommendable psych, they are unpredictable, as the makeup of the individual user, both structurally and ephemerally, is too complex for such a generlization or prediction to be made. The profound effects of the experience on people's psyche comes with an inherent risk.

For just as there are people like you who don't get shit from what some of us would call the deeper 2c's, there are some like me who find them the most reliably consistent trip, producing positive and meaningful results (or just plain fun, depending on the circumstance) time and time again, whereas I find tryptamines to have an uncomfortably significant chance of producing an undesirable experience (and you know very well that these experiences can have lasting impact on us).

 

[swilow]

my absolute favorite substances behind DMT, and none of them could be considered natural

If by natural you mean found in nature, the above sentence doesn't make sense

Methoxetamine, 4-AcO-DMT, LSD, and aMT are my absolute favorite substances behind DMT, and none of them could be considered natural (and only one of them could be considered a classicMethoxetamine, 4-AcO-DMT, LSD, and aMT are my absolute favorite substances behind DMT, and none of them could be considered natural (and only one of them could be considered a classic

If by classic you mean a substance that has a longish history of human use, and was prominent during the early psychedelic society of the 60's, then LSD, DMT and AMT would all be considered classics.

 

[Alice Practice]

I've been around this argument before, right up to the meth is found in nature point, just it was about JWH. This can go in obvious circles and I think gets everyone fixating on really useless points about like organic granola bars when there's a more interesting debate of whether the chemical is good to do and why it comes across this way. It is interesting to analyze possible balance struck in things which had eons to develop, but is that really what this thread is about?

FWIW, probably not much, I have always felt EXACTLY as SJ on the matter and it is the reason I've avoided the 2C family. Especially with access to LSD.

 

[Jakeperson]

I find 2c compounds to feel far more "natural" than acid, shrooms and most standard 5HT2A psychs.


But then again I am more of a cold, analytic and robotic person myself.

 

[QuasiModo]

I have to respectfully disagree with the OP but his post sure did spark some interesting discussion. I am personally new to the 2c series, but in my limited experience I have found them to be beautifully benign. There may be some explanation for this; I've never ventured into heroic doses, I've given myself 7 days between experiences and I've only tried B and I (the former many more times than the latter [only once]). I've probably spent many more hours reading about them than I have under their influence as I've been fascinated with Pihkal and it's children since I began reading erowid after my first MDMA experience some many years ago.

To the OP,

I wish you luck in overcoming your mental instability. It saddens me that what has helped me overcome so much has, in your eyes, been a burden.

 

[Jakeperson]

^^ I am the same but I have ventured into large to heroic doses and still find them to be somewhat benign in that sense

 

[freaktech]

uhmm.. the last time with 2c-b I felt some tachycardia and cold tremors (I drinked 2 wine glasses as well...) on come up. This never ocurred with triptamines (4-aco-dmt, shrooms). I´m not sure if it is because phenetylamines are more harder/toxic on the body or wine potentiates 2c-b side effects

 

[Jakeperson]

I have had that from 2C-B and alcohol before but never without it. Could just be coincidence though.

 

[1cheeselova]

In my limited psychadellic experience I agree. It's difficult for me to put it in my own words but you describe most of what I feel.
Then again, I believe psychadellics heavily really on perception. If you think 2c-_ is cold, hard, empty, and toxic, you will believe/feel it is cold, hard, ect. If you telling yourself it is warm, loving, natural, you catch my drift.

 

[velena73]

The OP seems to assume that the effects these drugs have had on him are generalizable to the population at large, and that is complete bologna. Different things affect different people differently.

Agreed.

OP: For the most part, I think 2C-E has an incredible warmness to it, at the same time as being analytical. There have been times where it seemed cold and alien. It has to do with your brain, your mental state, and your expectations. If you choose to stay away from the 2c-x family, that's fine and it's your decision, but everything you said in your original post could be applied to countless other substances. We're talking about psychedelics...rule #1, it's all a matter of perception.

 

[Jakeperson]

Just to show the difference in every one with each drug I would like to point out that I have found 2c-E to be one of the easiest psychs, very little mindfuck, not very deep trip but with some of the best visuals, besides LSD and DMT

 

[Jesusgreen]

Just to add to my previous post, I don't even necessarily think purely using 2Cs a lot is what causes some peoples' bad experiences with them, but it really is down to the individual. As I've probably already said, I've used 2C-E many times, and last year I was using it every few days for a very long time - it left me rather eccentric and "off" for a little while after that, but then I returned to normal, with no long-term negative side-effects.

It's topics like these that remind us of the importance of that little phrase: Your mileage may vary.

 

[bighooter]

Would using 2cb once a month be considered relatively safe?

I take it aMT should also be used once a month if it is on the same sort of scale as MDMA? / (high serotonin releaser)

 

[boiledfruit]

Different chems do different things in the brain. Some may provoke "deep" experiences, and some and just vibin' good times.

Since we found out methamphetamine is natural, who's to say 2C-X aren't found naturally somewhere in the universe?

 

[AlyDrops]

Different chems do different things in the brain. Some may provoke "deep" experiences, and some and just vibin' good times.

Since we found out methamphetamine is natural, who's to say 2C-X aren't found naturally somewhere in the universe?

If you're referring to the Acacia species that supposedly contain methamphetamine, I don't believe anyone in the scientific community actually thinks that's correct. Even Alexander Shulgin said the whole situation was highly unlikely and probably due contaminated lab equipment. Although, I do believe 2C-B could be found in nature. I think I already said why somewhere in this topic....

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Humans are found in nature, ergo all chemicals produced by them are natural. That's my take on it anway. Are we going to be considering birds nests and honey to be unnatural things, because they are also produced by animals indigenous to the planet Earth? Or those darned sea otters with their rocks to break shit open with.