Positive The Tapering Support Thread v 2.0

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It's a brave new world. I mean I don't see it as a problem to use opioid replacement therapy indefinitely if it means having a better life. Isn't that idea of greater wellness what drugs first preyed upon in us? What is normal? Heck if I know!

Yes, this.
Pods gave me my life back when I was in physical pain and resulting misery so bad I was counting the days until I die.
Instead of misery, I had fun, for many months. Then even after the fun starts to flatten I had pain relief.
Yes I could have grinned and borne it, but for what reason? Because the law says I can't decide for myself if I need opiates? Frick that, there are limits to what I'll do for the reason of "because I said so" from someone's government.
I feel lucky, blessed even, to be offered bupreorphine for life, the side effects are absolutely minimal. Pods for life would be even better, but there are legal drawbacks to that. I've even had my mascara tested for drugs at an airport ffs, they wouldn't find a huge quantity there, so why do they bother?

 

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I agree, it’s just not a solution for me. Everyone’s gotta do what’s best for themselves. I keep telling myself that I’m tough enough to beat this 100%. That means I can’t switch to bupe or I’d be giving up.

You have that single minded determination that I think will see you through anything life throws at you and I know you have a lot on your plate. I'm just not of one mind on the topic.
I don't really want to live life with no drugs at all, I loved drugs from a very young age. I stayed sober for 24 years to raise my kids best I could, I can do it if needed, now I want the best life I can have for myself and occassionally I get back on pods, that's ok, I know I can save my bupe for quitting and do this again.

It's not like I have good health to enjoy if I quit everything. I decided a long time ago that it might be easier to handle an opiate habit than try to tackle each part of my genetic illness. A few years on and with the help of a bupe prescription, it is easier.

 

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Surprising how much it affected me going from 40 to 35mg, I thought of that as a very small drop?

If 35 is this hard, will I make it to 15?

That was only last Thursday, this is Monday and I'm down to 30/7 as of yesterday, needed to get down this bit more then can slow the taper, woke in a bath of my own sweat of course and painful wind/heartburn but was quick on the loo. It's one consolation. Then I get my comfort meds together with a strong coffee or four and most symptoms melt away.
I'm staying at 30 for four weeks max. Must be on 25 or less after that, then I won't run out, in fact I'll have a couple extra for the wedding.
I'm glad we have a real bath, the boys wanted it out, I wouldn't let them.
If I start being sick again I'm going back up to 35 but would have to go down steeper after that so I want to steady here for a while if I can.

 

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In @Squeaky's game of percentages that is a reduction of a quarter inside a week, so I find a quarter doable. I don't feel great, but I've felt a lot worse.
It's unfortunate I can't easily cut a quarter off 30. I've patches in 15mgs, 10mgs and 5mgs and don't really want to start cutting any.
So in theory 25 ought to be easier than this, being more than three quarters of 30.
25 is my goal now, I'm not planning going lower than that unless it gets much easier, I doubt that will happen.
It's the comfort meds making the difference, I'm not getting hooked on them or transferring addictions, they just work when I need them and none seem to need more than a day or three to taper off once I'm settled on the lower dose.
It was Shrove Tuesday that I last had opium, I typed that already somewhere, but seems I've unwittingly become a Christian giving up shit for lent I must have been about ten last time I gave up shit for lent. It was the school's idea then, my mum thought I'd lost it, but every idea that wasn't hers always came from a crazy person.
I might get myself some therapy again, I feel like I've digested the last lot of therapy that ended due to the pandemic starting, but my last therapist won't see me again, she said she was retiring.
It makes me feel shit to say it but she was scared of me. She shouldn't have been, I hate killing flies even, I'm peaceful as well as being a smaller female than she is, but once I caught a glimpse of her fear I laughed inside to myself and made her feel it more. I'd say the last three sessions I'd completely shut my mind to her, nothing useful happening in there and just played with her fears and prejudices because I was offended I guess.

 

[Squeaky]

In @Squeaky's game of percentages that is a reduction of a quarter inside a week, so I find a quarter doable. I don't feel great, but I've felt a lot worse.
It's unfortunate I can't easily cut a quarter off 30. I've patches in 15mgs, 10mgs and 5mgs and don't really want to start cutting any.
So in theory 25 ought to be easier than this, being more than three quarters of 30.
25 is my goal now, I'm not planning going lower than that unless it gets much easier, I doubt that will happen.
It's the comfort meds making the difference, I'm not getting hooked on them or transferring addictions, they just work when I need them and none seem to need more than a day or three to taper off once I'm settled on the lower dose.
It was Shrove Tuesday that I last had opium, I typed that already somewhere, but seems I've unwittingly become a Christian giving up shit for lent I must have been about ten last time I gave up shit for lent. It was the school's idea then, my mum thought I'd lost it, but every idea that wasn't hers always came from a crazy person.
I might get myself some therapy again, I feel like I've digested the last lot of therapy that ended due to the pandemic starting, but my last therapist won't see me again, she said she was retiring.
It makes me feel shit to say it but she was scared of me. She shouldn't have been, I hate killing flies even, I'm peaceful as well as being a smaller female than she is, but once I caught a glimpse of her fear I laughed inside to myself and made her feel it more. I'd say the last three sessions I'd completely shut my mind to her, nothing useful happening in there and just played with her fears and prejudices because I was offended I guess.

You need an old white guy therapist. Someone who’s seen it all and won’t be distracted by something like fear. Maybe a retired mafia shrink.

 

[PtahTek]

It makes me feel shit to say it but she was scared of me. She shouldn't have been, I hate killing flies even, I'm peaceful as well as being a smaller female than she is, but once I caught a glimpse of her fear I laughed inside to myself and made her feel it more. I'd say the last three sessions I'd completely shut my mind to her, nothing useful happening in there and just played with her fears and prejudices because I was offended I guess.

My therapist is a petite young(er) female and we have built a decent "relationship" over the last few months.
I expected her to be another failed attempt at retaining any sanity I have left and am starting to feel blase about our chats. Its like I do not see much or any difference than when we first started.
Looking back, though, I see she has provided some tools to work with, different perspectives on core issues, she has helped bring back my laugh and sometimes we laugh together and yes we have shared a tear.
She is sincere and open which I appreciate.
Guess what I am saying is relying on this therapist may not be sustainable indefinately but the added support, tools/perspecives and an actual physical caring person that means well is not something that I will soon forget... if ever.
Also I have found that me being open and honest as possible has left a place where we are learning new stuff from each other.
I do rag on psychiatrists as they wanna med a mf to death and I can do this myself if wanted.
Maybe its what we bring to the party.... IDK
Sorry if I got off topic.
I am still tapering benzo and have started cutting out morning dose. Got 1/4 kilo of kratom coming and will use that and a couple other meds if/when I jump.
Glad kratom has been easy for me to put down when needed or wanted.
Need to give the benzo a break even though it only helps with pains at current dosages. All I really wanted it for but now notice that it is sapping too much energy and need some for a while to get right.
Oh, imma keep seeing therapist weekly gonna get as much out of it as I can before my time is taken over by life again.
Hey, best wishes and hope your evening goes well (or morn where ever one may or may not be).
Peace

 

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You need an old white guy therapist. Someone who’s seen it all and won’t be distracted by something like fear. Maybe a retired mafia shrink.

There's probably a heap of them on bluelight, did you mean the moderators?

 

[Ghostrae]

Hi all. I've been on and off codeine for 10 years. I normally quit cold turkey. But I swear the withdrawal gets worse every time.

First night tonight, I've halved my dose. I'll still get symptoms but I've gotta work and get through these 3 maybe 4 days. I'm gonna half my dose 2mrw night too.

I've got benzos, immodium, parametmol, and some sleeping pills.

I'll post my rapid withdrawal experience as I go. My wife knows this time. So I've got her support.

I know codeine is weaker than most opiates but it still fills me with FEAR.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Peace

Sounds good.
I to am trying for a rapid tapper from norco 10s then oxy 10s. . From previous habits : cigaretts 20 yrs quit in 86, x drinker, valium. I don't think long tappers are good for me.
With this effort 2-3 weeks cut 50%. Now extending time between 5mg doses 10 or more hours. Wanted to go a measily 24 hour break. Hit me after 15 hours....got to have a pill
Haven't taken it yet. Probably will. Do not want to. No pain, no diarrhea straight up and down craving. I have enough to tapper 6 days or more, depending.
Good luck. You will succeed. So will I.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

My therapist is a petite young(er) female and we have built a decent "relationship" over the last few months.
I expected her to be another failed attempt at retaining any sanity I have left and am starting to feel blase about our chats. Its like I do not see much or any difference than when we first started.
Looking back, though, I see she has provided some tools to work with, different perspectives on core issues, she has helped bring back my laugh and sometimes we laugh together and yes we have shared a tear.
She is sincere and open which I appreciate.
Guess what I am saying is relying on this therapist may not be sustainable indefinately but the added support, tools/perspecives and an actual physical caring person that means well is not something that I will soon forget... if ever.
Also I have found that me being open and honest as possible has left a place where we are learning new stuff from each other.
I do rag on psychiatrists as they wanna med a mf to death and I can do this myself if wanted.
Maybe its what we bring to the party.... IDK
Sorry if I got off topic.
I am still tapering benzo and have started cutting out morning dose. Got 1/4 kilo of kratom coming and will use that and a couple other meds if/when I jump.
Glad kratom has been easy for me to put down when needed or wanted.
Need to give the benzo a break even though it only helps with pains at current dosages. All I really wanted it for but now notice that it is sapping too much energy and need some for a while to get right.
Oh, imma keep seeing therapist weekly gonna get as much out of it as I can before my time is taken over by life again.
Hey, best wishes and hope your evening goes well (or morn where ever one may or may not be).
Peace

Glad to hear the therapy is working for you, brother. IME we may not always have productive sessions but in the long run, progress is made even if in incremental baby steps.

Also, like some drugs, if you have trouble finding it useful, therapy can be stepped down rather than quitting cold turkey. When I'm in crisis mode, yes I see a therapist once a week. Then "taper" down to every other week and now I check in once a month still knowing in the back of my mind that if I need to, I can increase appointments again. Just a thought.

 

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How would you go about finding a therapist? I used to have insurance and got given a list by them, now I'm on my own finding one and I don't know where to start. I have no will to go telling private details to a dozen random therapists in the hope one might say, yes that's exactly my area of expertise.
So how do I find one who is suitable?

Another question if anyone is feeling helpful, my current bupe dose is equivalent to about 1.5-2mg sublingual once you take into account the absorption rates being less from the patches.
Is 1.5-2mg sublingual bupe a blocking dose?
No naloxone involved, bupe is a blocker on it's own with a higher affinity for the mu receptors than any other common opioid, even naloxone.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

How would you go about finding a therapist? I used to have insurance and got given a list by them, now I'm on my own finding one and I don't know where to start. I have no will to go telling private details to a dozen random therapists in the hope one might say, yes that's exactly my area of expertise.
So how do I find one who is suitable?

I don't know where you are located but in the US, Psychology Today is a good starting point (linked). After that, my second choice would be Zocdoc. On either one, look for the specialty box and choose "therapy" or "counseling". Make sure to view each individual therapist's profile because they will normally list the different types of therapy in which they specialize. This will save you time. You don't want to see a sex therapist if your problem is coping with asperger's. If you have PTSD, search for a therapist who specializes in that. If nothing is listed and you want to find out, call their office and straight up ask them if they have experience with whatever ails you. They will tell you.

In my city, we have a lot of sliding scale therapists that will see you without insurance and only charge what you can afford. Try googling "sliding scale therapy" or something like that with your city and state included.

When I start out, I typically don't dive deep into all of my deepest, darkest problems. Besides, with hour-long sessions, that isn't enough time to get into much detail. I normally start out with low hanging fruit and basic everyday issues while trying out a new therapist. As trust is gained, I will slowly begin sharing more and more. With my last therapist, I saw her for a year before finally telling her the biggest thing that has been nagging at me for 20 years. Unfortunately my insurance changed after that session and she is not in network anymore so I can't see her again I'm NOT saying it should take you a year to open up, just wanted to give you an extreme example of how therapy isn't a one-size-fits-all type of thing. You'll know when y'all are ready to get real with each other.

 

[Squeaky]

Coming up on 2 years in a month or 2 since I stopped taking oxy every day. I’m actually, finally, getting back to my old self….. warts and all. It’s scary to realize what those tiny pills did to me. I was using them for “pain”, but I can honestly say that my average day is a lot less painful today than 2 years ago. If I hadn’t cut my access to those pills, I would not be here now. I felt great for an hour or two after each dose, but the few hours between doses were murder. My aches and pains come and go without warning but I could have set my watch by the pattern of suck that the pills created.

Now I have to get to the business of dealing with all of my old problems. It makes me miss the relief that oxy provided. But I don’t want to go back, even though I really miss it.

 

[Ghostrae]

Coming up on 2 years in a month or 2 since I stopped taking oxy every day. I’m actually, finally, getting back to my old self….. warts and all. It’s scary to realize what those tiny pills did to me. I was using them for “pain”, but I can honestly say that my average day is a lot less painful today than 2 years ago. If I hadn’t cut my access to those pills, I would not be here now. I felt great for an hour or two after each dose, but the few hours between doses were murder. My aches and pains come and go without warning but I could have set my watch by the pattern of suck that the pills created.

Now I have to get to the business of dealing with all of my old problems. It makes me miss the relief that oxy provided. But I don’t want to go back, even though I really miss it.

Congratulations. I have been in that place myself. When I stopped smoking for example, after a 20yr pack a day habit, it was for good and it was a great relief. I wondered why I ever did it to start with.
I made a trip to my doctorl today. I made the decision to continue taking the pain medication. I'm 76 years old with worsening osteoarthritis and moderate borderline severe aortic stenosis. The only relief I am getting right now is the percoset. I am lucky to have a doctor who cares. We discussed the frustrations faced by both doctor and patient in this present day climate of liability.
I had been concerned about the urine test. I did not have to take one. I won't put myself in this position again- of having to fear the test.
When the weather warms up I will revisit the idea of not taking the pain pills. I still feel I would be better off finding another way of dealing with pain. For today I am just grateful they are still an option.
Again, I congratulate you!

 

[Ghostrae]

96 hours this time, and I’m out if pills.

My plan is working, even if it’s going slow. A year ago I was running out in a week or less, but that was 100 oxy 30’s. This time it was 120 perc 10’s.

It sounds so easy... just stop. But it’s like driving past Starbucks and craving a cup of your favorite coffee. You just hit the drive through and swipe your card. It’s so easy and it feels good enough that it sounds like a good idea even though it’s probably not.

I figure I have at least another year.

One positive note: I ran into an old friend at work last week. He has needed a knee replacement for a while and the Dr prescribed pain killers. He said he doesn’t want them and I didn’t even think about asking him to give them to me. That’s progress.

 

[Squeaky]

Congratulations. I have been in that place myself. When I stopped smoking for example, after a 20yr pack a day habit, it was for good and it was a great relief. I wondered why I ever did it to start with.
I made a trip to my doctorl today. I made the decision to continue taking the pain medication. I'm 76 years old with worsening osteoarthritis and moderate borderline severe aortic stenosis. The only relief I am getting right now is the percoset. I am lucky to have a doctor who cares. We discussed the frustrations faced by both doctor and patient in this present day climate of liability.
I had been concerned about the urine test. I did not have to take one. I won't put myself in this position again- of having to fear the test.
When the weather warms up I will revisit the idea of not taking the pain pills. I still feel I would be better off finding another way of dealing with pain. For today I am just grateful they are still an option.
Again, I congratulate you!

Thank you Ghostrae.

Your situation is less complicated than mine. At your age, with your physical issues, Percocet may not be a bad plan. But what I can offer as advice is this:

Opiates take away much more than physical pain. That’s sort of the reason I got hooked. The decision you have right now is whether these last years would be better for you if you have ‘pain’…. or if you have no connection to reality. And there’s probably a different way to mitigate the physical pains without detaching yourself from the universe.

I used to think that “detachment” was a bonus included with my pain relief. And it definitely was a bonus sometimes. But there’s things in life I would like to experience that I haven’t been ‘present’ for in several years.

 

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Thank you Ghostrae.

Your situation is less complicated than mine. At your age, with your physical issues, Percocet may not be a bad plan. But what I can offer as advice is this:

Opiates take away much more than physical pain. That’s sort of the reason I got hooked. The decision you have right now is whether these last years would be better for you if you have ‘pain’…. or if you have no connection to reality. And there’s probably a different way to mitigate the physical pains without detaching yourself from the universe.

I used to think that “detachment” was a bonus included with my pain relief. And it definitely was a bonus sometimes. But there’s things in life I would like to experience that I haven’t been ‘present’ for in several years.

Your situation is unique, we all are, I'm not sure everyone gets so much detachment from opiates. Perhaps it depends on the type.

I'm on buprenorphine alone now, given up pods, turned my back and while I'm not saying never, I'm saying not for now, not least because 2-3 times my prescribed dose of bupe is killing any feeling I get from the pods for now, I tried and no high, shame, never mind, I stick to the plan better this way. In six weeks only used pods twice, I feel safely unhooked from them, while I'm on bupe at least.

Thing is buprenorphine doesn't make me detached at all, it kills pain. The only complaint is bupe makes it hard to cum, but we're old and have time, lol.

 

[Squeaky]

Tha

The only complaint is bupe makes it hard to cum

That’s sort of what I’m referring to. I guess what I meant was that life is good when it’s good, and bad when it’s bad. Opiates take away the bad parts. After a while, the good parts are all I remembered. Without the bad stuff…. even the great parts just feel normal.

I had a friend years ago whose house needed major repairs. The insurance paid for a hotel and a huge meal allowance. So he was eating filet mignon at a fancy restaurant every night. This went on for about 2 months. He said that the first week or two was awesome, but after a month he was so sick of eating the filet mignon and he just wanted some home cooked variety. Even if it meant washing the dishes.

I couldn’t see any of this until recently. I hate the less pleasant aspects of life, and I really still enjoy a break from all of it. But without the negatives I quit appreciating the positives. And I was having similar issues in the bedroom, but now I sometimes can go twice

 

[Squeaky]

It is important to note that if you know one person dependent on opiates, then you know ONE person on opiates. Everyone’s situation is unique. There’s obviously some consistency that we all share, particularly with regards to withdrawals. Some of us got hooked at a very young age and simply cannot understand what’s happening. Some got addicted because of something that happened later in life (that’s me), and can completely see what’s going on even though they’re horribly addicted. But there’s something universal that I believe we can all agree upon:

Life is different with drugs than without. Some aspects are better, some are worse. The big question we must all ask ourselves is whether we prefer life with them or without. Faced with months of withdrawals, it definitely sounds like life gets a LOT worse if we quit. I have been faced with answering that question every month, and I always choose the drugs. It’s the main reason we all keep choosing the drugs. And as much as it totally sucks….. the only way to know is to face the fire for up to 2 years or you’ll only be answering that question with bad research.

What I can say about my personal situation is that I genuinely believed that my life would not have been worth living without opiates. I have a bunch of screws in my spine which provided me with iron clad proof that I was correct. Even that was not the whole picture, but it was all I could see. And the cold hard truth is that when it hurts, it hurts more than I can describe. That kind of pain NEVER happened on opiates. Even a month after I gave up my prescription for oxy and had nothing but Kratom…. it never hurt like this. It’s blinding pain. But it’s only in one place, I’m getting used to it, and it’s not “all of the time” like before on pills. Meanwhile the list of things I have back is endless. Sleep, sex, tasting food, memory, relationships….. the list goes on and is slowly growing. The list of crap that sucks has grown also but it’s definitely a lot shorter list. And now that I have some real information regarding life on the pills vs life off them, it’s clear to me that I’m not capable of using them responsibly so I must make a choice. I choose a life without the pills.

Now I have to figure out how to finish the marathon. Most days it feels like I’m 20 feet from the finish line with 2 broken legs.

 

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Most days it feels like I’m 20 feet from the finish line with 2 broken legs.

It is a bit like that, isn't it?
Like we all know that we can pull ourselves to the finish using our arms, but my god, it hurts dragging those broken legs about!
Very tempting to fix the legs and then just to show how not addicted we all are, walk on our hands over the line, who needs legs? (irony)

I'm counting the seconds until the summer is over and I can go back to pods. I love my freedom, it is important to have, but I really really love pods.
(three uses in 43 days, still doing well)

Edit, four uses in 43 days, where did all that fricking willpower go? I'm an idiot.

 

[Ghostrae]

So much hype surrounds "opoids". Reality and advertising are hard to separate. People are gulible. No, the withdrawal symptoms from the amount of otc opoid ( loperamide)(krayom) (herbal teas) (poppy seeds)or medical prescription strength pain meds will not cause the kind severe withdrawal caused by very high use products like those sold illegally.
The population of users have had to be introduced to the concept of "you have to take it every day! Thats the selling point for most drugs. Its money making business! Drugs from antidepressants to antihypertensives. In fact the tolerance throry is a little squirelly. I've needed more because my condition is progressive. I have more pain.
You might wonder where I got my information.
Experience. 76yrs old. 50yrs taking drugs. 34 yrs old had a blotched surgery that had me on morphine round the clock. Falsly declared cancer riddled. Later prescriptions for strong opoids.. Then cut off abruptly. In the early 80's weaning, tappering, maintainance was not medical vocabulary.
When I was cut off either pain meds or benzos I do not remrmber any extreme withdrawal symptoms. I do not remember any nedical concern over the need to tapper.
How about sharing with the forum, some similar experiences u have had. The fact it was not hard to quit using.
The fact what separated u from an addiction was leaving off the last pill or smoke or whatever.

ter