Positive The Tapering Support Thread v 2.0

Still super sick here.
Back to no sleep, no eating, no life at all.

My mom is still super sick also, so....idk what this is.
Some bad, bad illness.

Just wanted to wish you all a Merry Christmas and hope you manage to have a decent holiday.
Much Love to you all.
❤️🎄❤️🎄
It's just going around. Honest ! Bless You ! And Please get better soon.

💙❤️💚🕊️🕊️
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I'm scared. My starting point is possibly 800mg morphine a day and I've got to get that down to 28mg equivalent in buprenorphine.

It can't be 800mg a day.
I use 30g pods which are 26.5% soluble, so that's about 8 grams of black stuff dissolved into my tea of which I'd guess half is opium, 4g opium. Opium can be 20% morphine which is where I get the 800mg a day pure morphine.

Please, anyone feel free to jump in and tell me that I've worked it out wrong and I'm only on 80g a day and put my decimal point wrong somewhere?

This is looking too much like I'm totally fooked and might as well forget getting off it.

Too much thinking isn't good for me, I just need to do it.
 
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This tapering business is a lot more appealing at the planning stage than when it comes around to doing anything. I stuck on another bupe patch while I consider it all.
My new limit is 20g of pods in a day, that's ok because I've been under 30g for a few days and it's ok. Weight isn't even accurate because the dampish pods weigh more than the properly dried ones and aren't as instantly uplifting, but it's the best measure I have unless I'm going to count individual pods (nah).
 
This tapering business is a lot more appealing at the planning stage than when it comes around to doing anything. I stuck on another bupe patch while I consider it all.
My new limit is 20g of pods in a day, that's ok because I've been under 30g for a few days and it's ok. Weight isn't even accurate because the dampish pods weigh more than the properly dried ones and aren't as instantly uplifting, but it's the best measure I have unless I'm going to count individual pods (nah).

If your numbers are correct and you’re ingesting 4g of opium, and that opium is 20% morphine, then your morphine intake is 0.8 grams. (20% means 1/5th)…..so you’re actually on 800 milligrams per day. It’s a lot, but you can do it.
 
If your numbers are correct and you’re ingesting 4g of opium, and that opium is 20% morphine, then your morphine intake is 0.8 grams. (20% means 1/5th)…..so you’re actually on 800 milligrams per day. It’s a lot, but you can do it.
It doesn't take long for the amount to creep upwards when there is plenty of it about, it's mostly medicine for me, I'm not getting high so much as living in a glass bubble of painfreeness. Christmas is difficult when for some unknown reason I keep the door open for relatives I don't like, this just drifts me along nicely. Doesn't matter how much shit gets flung, snide comments bounce off me, I'm happy in my bubble.
Unfortunately the next bit is going to hurt.
 
It doesn't take long for the amount to creep upwards when there is plenty of it about, it's mostly medicine for me, I'm not getting high so much as living in a glass bubble of painfreeness. Christmas is difficult when for some unknown reason I keep the door open for relatives I don't like, this just drifts me along nicely. Doesn't matter how much shit gets flung, snide comments bounce off me, I'm happy in my bubble.
Unfortunately the next bit is going to hurt.
I have the same experience with oxy. Somehow everyone else’s bullshit doesn’t bother me much, and time flys by.
 
I feel the opioid addiction leaving my body, and nothing's helped more than black seed oil. But fuck if it isn't difficult. I can't tell which day I'll wake up with symptoms. I'm not on any particular schedule. If I really have to I'll take 2mg of Suboxone or some kratom. But that's it really. It's definitely gotten better but some days man, some days I still feel like shit and opioids are the only thing that fixes it.

But i feel myself closing in on freedom.
 
I feel the opioid addiction leaving my body, and nothing's helped more than black seed oil. But fuck if it isn't difficult. I can't tell which day I'll wake up with symptoms. I'm not on any particular schedule. If I really have to I'll take 2mg of Suboxone or some kratom. But that's it really. It's definitely gotten better but some days man, some days I still feel like shit and opioids are the only thing that fixes it.

But i feel myself closing in on freedom.
The first thing that left me was the physical pains. But the insomnia, hot flashes, lethargy, and general cognitive problems lasted for months. The depression is still hanging around even 18 months later, and the cravings will probably never leave.

But it does feel pretty awesome to feel like the finish line is within reach. Don’t give up now defeciT. You have worked harder to get here than most people could ever understand.
 
I'm reducing again to 18g a day of pods, from today.
20g was easy enough except first thing in the morning which is always a difficult time no matter what.
I haven't increased my gabapentin or clonidine and I've stopped my ADs, that was accidental, ran out just before christmas, but I'm feeling fine so it's better to keep that for a lift in the future that I'll need. I've stuck on half a patch of buprenorphine just because it is so helpful working away in the background, I've loads saved up for when it gets difficult.
One practical problem is I'm currently too disorganised in my head to write down my reasons for doing this and by the time I can think straight I'll have forgotten the finer details and I'll just want some, y'know.

Suggest to me my reasons if you have time, anyone, but especially those who have watched me almost nearly kinda thinking about quitting for the last year or more, please.
:bananaslip:

Then I'll come back and make a really good list because of the other viewpoints and not just my own. Please :hai:
 
Suggest to me my reasons if you have time, anyone
I can only share my personal experience, but I did the exact same thing:

I would save my pills, thinking it was a good thing. I was using less than prescribed and saving for a rainy day. It was a really great plan until it wasn’t (it was always a bad idea… I just couldn’t see it back then).

The ‘extra’ pills became my crutch. And the more I saved, the bigger the problem in the future. Instead of slowly weaning off the pills and learning to handle life without them, I was building a war-chest of reasons NOT to handle anything. The pills became my way of handling pain at first but slowly became my way of handling absolutely everything. Stress at work? Pills. Stress at home? Pills. Pain in my back? Pills. Can’t sleep? Pills are awesome for that too.

Eventually I ran out of my stash. I was slowly using more and more. I was prescribed 90mg oxy per day but only using 45 and saving half of my pills. Then using 60 and saving 1/3. Then using all 90mg but it wasn’t a problem at all. Then 120mg, but still not a problem because I had saved a lot already. Then 150. Then 180. Still no problem: “I’ll just cut back and start saving again”

This whole process took about a year or two. Eventually I had forgotten how to deal with life without my pills. My war-chest was empty but I was going to get my prescription filled the next day, so I didn’t see a real problem. I was using double my prescription every day and my tolerance was stuck at that level. I couldn’t handle life without my pacifier, and not having it was making me suffer unimaginably. I couldn’t remember life before pills and I was running out faster each month.

The only answer was to go back in time and destroy my war-chest before I could use it. My tolerance had grown to about 300mg per day. As soon as I got my script filled, I would begin the cycle of running out every month. My tolerance never dropped like I thought it would. I spent about 2 years trying to go back to using them responsibly but that was hopeless. I became angry at myself for being so weak, but that only made me use more of my pacifier.

There’s a point where opiates really do solve problems. That point is something we would all call ‘a very low dosage’. Beyond that, they become the problem we’re trying to solve with opiates. Today, I walk with a cane instead of taking pills for my back pain…. and my life is better. A lot better.

My advice to anyone in this situation? Make a plan to taper off the opiates. Doesn’t matter how slow it goes. Stop thinking you can ever take extra (not even once). Don’t save up any for the future. Ask for help if you can. And get comfortable with the idea that the next year is going to be nothing but getting your life back. And when you’re done, you’re shutting that door forever.

You can do this Papercuts. But it’s a little like a partial circumcision: It’s all or nothing. Whatever decision you make, it probably won’t kill you. But it will define your life forever, and not making a choice is a choice all by itself.
 
I can only share my personal experience, but I did the exact same thing:

I would save my pills, thinking it was a good thing. I was using less than prescribed and saving for a rainy day. It was a really great plan until it wasn’t (it was always a bad idea… I just couldn’t see it back then).

The ‘extra’ pills became my crutch. And the more I saved, the bigger the problem in the future. Instead of slowly weaning off the pills and learning to handle life without them, I was building a war-chest of reasons NOT to handle anything. The pills became my way of handling pain at first but slowly became my way of handling absolutely everything. Stress at work? Pills. Stress at home? Pills. Pain in my back? Pills. Can’t sleep? Pills are awesome for that too.

Eventually I ran out of my stash. I was slowly using more and more. I was prescribed 90mg oxy per day but only using 45 and saving half of my pills. Then using 60 and saving 1/3. Then using all 90mg but it wasn’t a problem at all. Then 120mg, but still not a problem because I had saved a lot already. Then 150. Then 180. Still no problem: “I’ll just cut back and start saving again”

This whole process took about a year or two. Eventually I had forgotten how to deal with life without my pills. My war-chest was empty but I was going to get my prescription filled the next day, so I didn’t see a real problem. I was using double my prescription every day and my tolerance was stuck at that level. I couldn’t handle life without my pacifier, and not having it was making me suffer unimaginably. I couldn’t remember life before pills and I was running out faster each month.

The only answer was to go back in time and destroy my war-chest before I could use it. My tolerance had grown to about 300mg per day. As soon as I got my script filled, I would begin the cycle of running out every month. My tolerance never dropped like I thought it would. I spent about 2 years trying to go back to using them responsibly but that was hopeless. I became angry at myself for being so weak, but that only made me use more of my pacifier.

There’s a point where opiates really do solve problems. That point is something we would all call ‘a very low dosage’. Beyond that, they become the problem we’re trying to solve with opiates. Today, I walk with a cane instead of taking pills for my back pain…. and my life is better. A lot better.

My advice to anyone in this situation? Make a plan to taper off the opiates. Doesn’t matter how slow it goes. Stop thinking you can ever take extra (not even once). Don’t save up any for the future. Ask for help if you can. And get comfortable with the idea that the next year is going to be nothing but getting your life back. And when you’re done, you’re shutting that door forever.

You can do this Papercuts. But it’s a little like a partial circumcision: It’s all or nothing. Whatever decision you make, it probably won’t kill you. But it will define your life forever, and not making a choice is a choice all by itself.
Great post, so much truth in it. I can relate so much to these words. And it is very true that if you wanna get off opiates no matter if the taper takes years its still moving forward (i myself today im 53 days clean off opiates and now of benzos, pregab and other meds), to make plan is very important as well, i planned this jump (i jumped from 20mg of methadone) for months and months, left where i live just for this kick, even had an Iboga ceremony, very focused and my mind was determined, it was rough, still is sometimes but im getting to the other side. Anyways, great advice and post here Squeaky.
 
Still super sick here.
Back to no sleep, no eating, no life at all.

My mom is still super sick also, so....idk what this is.
Some bad, bad illness.

Just wanted to wish you all a Merry Christmas and hope you manage to have a decent holiday.
Much Love to you all.
❤️🎄❤️🎄
Hey Painful, havent heard from u in like two weeks, i know u were having a rough time, are you doing better? Hows ur moms? I hope u had a great New Year's eve and a better start of these first days of 2023. Sending a big good vibes hug.
 
@Squeaky thank you for your experience, I guess it's slightly different because I'm trying to switch from a full agonist to buprenorphine, after which I stay on bupe because it's good for my pain. While my stash of bupe is large, I've tried a lot of ways to abuse that med and there isn't a lot of point to doing anything with it at all except just wearing it for pain. It's not like having a stash of oxy, for sure I'd be through that super quick and back complaining how crap bupe is, but it's not really, it's just no good to get high off. It's good for its intended purpose of killing pain without getting you high.

So buprenorphine isn't the problem, the problem is me running fast as I can away from reality.

My attitude isn't there yet for quitting full agonists, I realized that yesterday. I've barely started and I can't wait for a day when I can be right back here, but going up the doses not down. However I have a reason for now and things to do this summer that only someone not carrying illegal shit can do. That person has to be me this summer, somehow.

I was obsessing yesterday, so I prepared what I'm allowed for today, then this morning I'm annoyed with myself because I don't get to do the prep this morning and that is out of my routine.
I enjoy my routines, they come immediately before using, so my brain is happy at those times.

But I am in the right frame of mind for reducing this massive fricking tolerance so by June just a tiny bit will do me if I can't get to zero. That is essential for my bank balance, my sanity and the ability to leave this country for another two, one after the other, then I get home and all bets are off, but I'll try not to be too quick to get back here, perhaps.

How do you find that desire to live fully in reality?
 
Preparing the day before has other drawbacks, like it's gone already :eek:

Need weed, then I can work, my brain can focus on something else, maybe, I hope so.
 
For me, it came down to a ‘quality of life’ question. Initially, the pain killers made life better. A lot better. I could sleep. I could work. Before the pills, I couldn’t even go through the grocery store without a shopping cart to use as a crutch. And the pills gave me most of that back.

When the first prescription stopped helping, my Dr increased the dose, and later increased it again and again. Each increase got me back most of my life. But eventually I was only maintaining basically the same quality of life that I had before pills. When I ran out it was horrible, so much worse than before the pills. I told myself that this would be my life forever.

Now that I’m going 90% of my days without them, I get to compare. Thinking about when I can have more pills, suffering through wd, falling asleep during dinner, $$ for doctors, missing work, insomnia, NOT being present ever…. it’s not a better life than dealing with my pain. There’s soooo many negatives that the pills have brought me.

I still hurt every day. Some days are unbearable. The pills fix that problem, and they fix a few ‘other’ problems. So it’s easy to see why I still get my prescription filled each month. But I’m finally doing the math on how many days I’m suffering from the pills vs how many days I suffer from the pain. It’s easy math. It’s too bad I can’t use them responsibly, but I clearly cannot.

The big hurdle for me is just pulling the trigger. It’s a security blanket. But it’s one that has holes, stains, and fleas. It doesn’t keep me warm anymore. It makes me stink. And I’m dropping fleas wherever I go.
 
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