Positive The Tapering Support Thread v 2.0

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!
Get out there and Celebrate!
Fuck it, if you have family that is shitty to you (I have those ones too, but I am going to face them!)
Don’t let them spoil your holiday.
People with little minds, hearts, and souls they are.

YOU, yes you, can get back to a good place.
If I was able to, you can also.
Keep going everyone.
I say screw them. Toxic people are just that: toxic. It doesn’t matter if they are family. If Adolph Hitler was your dad, would you still invite him for Thanksgiving? Hell no!

I have stopped spending time with people who suck, even if we’re related. So I had an awesome Thanksgiving Day with people who aren’t trying to use me up and give me stress.
 
I say screw them. Toxic people are just that: toxic. It doesn’t matter if they are family. If Adolph Hitler was your dad, would you still invite him for Thanksgiving? Hell no!

I have stopped spending time with people who suck, even if we’re related. So I had an awesome Thanksgiving Day with people who aren’t trying to use me up and give me stress.
Yeah, I ended up just coming home.
Everyone in my family is so successful. All they talk about are their new cars, Tesla’s, vacations, boats, etc..
And I have nothing.. not even a car.
I feel so lame. I am so lame!

I hope I can get back to where I can work again but I don’t know what I could do.
I have been the sole family member , taking care of my dad through Multiple System Atrophy aka Double Parkinson’s disease, and now my mom is 84 and having problems.
I have been the caretaker of our parents for a long time with no help from them.
I have saved them a lot of money. They just do not ever recognize that fact.

I am still sick.
Still adjusting.
Still trying to stabilize.
It hasn’t been a very good day so far.
Pain has returned in my leg and back. ☹️
 
I have been the sole family member , taking care of my dad through Multiple System Atrophy aka Double Parkinson’s disease, and now my mom is 84 and having problems.
I have been the caretaker of our parents for a long time with no help from them.
I have saved them a lot of money. They just do not ever recognize that fact.


It hasn’t been a very good day so far.
Pain has returned in my leg and back. ☹️

I can totally relate PO. I can tell you my parents are both 90 and live 2 hours away from me. Next sibling is a younger brother in Texas. This is the time I really wish I had an older sister as let's face it daughters are attentive in a way that sons can't be. My parents are grateful though. Not sure what to do though as time goes on. But I totally get where you are with that and how rewardless it is. And then the moods and just shit days that can happen. But I wonder how I am going to work and take care of people and I do that now but barely make it through a day without wishing for a break.

Also taking care of my wife who has heart issues that are sort of scary. Hereditary very high cholesterol, some blockages in her heart arteries, blood pressure can go as low as 70/40. Then her heart speeds up to compensate. She also has a lot of metal in her body due to a bad car accident at 18. Whole pelvic wall had to be rebuilt. So now with any orthopedic issues we worry about the heart keeping up. So unsure of the future. I have PTSD from all my wife's medical issues. Any text I get is a worry and she texts me jokes all day long.

I hope your legs feel better, second half of the summer I had sciatica that hampered me badly for 2 months. Much better now. So hopefully the leg pain eases. Keep in mind if you took a knife and cut your arm your body would immediately start healing. Someday we will harness that power.

All the while I have been tapering kratom. I went from 50 gr a day down to 20 in 6 months. It was a non issue but with all the day to day duties I wonder if I should just stay at this level. Right now I am holding here. Luckly while I do get withdrawal it usually consists of sneezing, lethargy and chills. Never really goes past that. But I did not get any of that with a slow taper. Only when I go 24-48 hours without any.
 
Whoever dies with the most toys… still dies. They have nice crap but it’s still just a lot of crap! And while the husband is getting the windows tinted on the Tesla, the wife is trying to bang the pool boy.

You have to treat life like it’s an airplane that’s crashing. Put on your mask first, so that you CAN help your loved ones. If you can’t breathe then you can’t help anyone else breathe. And don’t think about anyone who is capable of helping themselves. They will only get you both killed.
 
Every month I’m getting better. So much less depression. Better sleep. Less desire for alcohol. Even less Kratom.

I’m past the half-way point. Ever hear the joke about the guy who tried to swim across the English channel? He got half-way and decided he couldn’t make it, so he swam back to where he started.

I don’t want to go back.
 
I am sorry you are being hurt so badly by family @papercuts
Sending you love, comfort, hugs, and peace.
You are a good person.
Please just try to ignore them. They are mentally unwell.

Well @Squeaky , here I am again.
Short on Subutex now. Real short.
I went back to her on day 7 and told her how much I was needing and she said “oh good!” But then wrote out a RX for 3 a day , when I have been needing 4-5 a day.
Just got down to 3 a day.
Tried to call her to ask about directions and she never called me back.
I assumed it was just take until you stabilize then try to lower it.
Which I did. But, the refill date is the 20 th and I have 3 8 mg Subutex left. ☹️☹️☹️
Do you think loperamide will hold me over?
Now, I am just in a more fucked position than I was using 90 mg a day morphine.
HELP!

I have an appointment on Monday.
I am thinking she could write me a new RX with the dosage higher, like I told her I needed, and the pharmacy would fill it since it is a “new prescription “?
What do you think?
Please help. I am scared.
I don’t want to be sick all through the holidays again. ☹️🥲
 
Painful One I really hope your doctor helps you on Monday. I think she probably will because the point of the first few weeks is to get you stablised, you are saying you are stable now on three a day but need that three a day until refil. It's that or destablise you and start again, that wouldn't help at all.
It sounds perfectly reasonable to me, but I'm not your doctor (haha, wouldn't that be fun).
 
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Do you think loperamide will hold me over?
Now, I am just in a more fucked position than I was using 90 mg a day morphine.
That’s pretty much exactly why I never wanted to go that route.

Loperamide is definitely worth a shot if you’re desperate. BUT….. remember how much worse life got when lope had raised your tolerance for morphine?

You’re pretty much screwed right now, and anything sounds better than wd’s during the holidays. I know far too well what that feels like. However there will always be a good reason to postpone the inevitable. If you can gather the strength to cut way way back and make it to the 20th, then Christmas will be really nice. If you go the lope route, Christmas will be OK but January will be the start of another horrible year. There’s never a good time to be in wd. It took you months to get away from loperamide after thinking it was a blessing the first time.

My only advice is to pick a route and stick with it. Tapering down the subutex as much as you can while also stockpiling loperamide gives you options. Suffering through the wd’s until the 20th is probably the smartest plan(although it will be miserable), but it also means lower tolerance when you get your prescription filled and THAT makes for a really nice Christmas. The other choice is to just give up/give in…. do whatever feels most comfortable and deal with the consequences next year.

Whatever you choose, remember that you have been in this spot many times before: suffering horribly through times that should be happy, and it’s always because you’re withdrawing from stuff you were using to stop your suffering. There’s never going to be a good time to handle this, so the best time is right now. But you’re getting very close to crossing a line that only leads to bad places.

I had to hit rock bottom. I won’t go into the specifics, but I was in a similar situation to where you are today. I finally saw the path I had been on, and understood exactly where it leads. I also recognized that I was a LOT closer to losing everything I loved. And the only way out was to get out.
 
@Painful One make sure to tell the doctor that you wasted loads by swallowing it before you got the hang of keeping it under your tongue, say you didn't realise at the time it was wasting it, now you know and won't have the same problem, plus you are now stable, I don't think she'll destablise you, fingers crossed.
I'm getting the holidays over first then I am looking seriously at how to get off this crap, or at least how to reduce it back down to a more sustainable level.
Everything I read contradicts everything else I read about the strength of pods. I think they are simply unique because it is a dependency on so many opioid alkaloids, they aren't refined so I get them all and I'll need even the ones I've not heard of to feel well. So I won't feel well. For quite a while. I'm not going to derail myself this time like I did last new year.
I'll taper pods first, I'll start by setting a 30gram limit on a day, from today (10am I've had 24g so far, I'm counting), come January I'll make that less. @Squeaky how much do you reduce by each time? Is it a third, half, what is the proportion you recommend? I don't remember.
After a taper of pods I'll feel pretty bad I imagine, when I get down to 5g or 10g a day then it will be time to carefully switch to buprenorphine, each patch is a quarter mg a day so if I aim to wear four that will be 1mg a day of bupe and I'll just have to deal with the other withdrawals which happen concurrently. Perhaps less than four might do.
I'm going to add one more patch each day and see how that goes. Not yet, long way to go first. January and February are quiet in work, I can get all the unpaid leave I want and noone will mind because there's not enough work to go around then.
My goal is to be a good pain patient and use only buprenorphine after that, basically I need it so I am vulnerable to being cut off if they catch me.
As for weed, I hope they legalise it here someday, until then I'm not going to beat myself up about it. I smoked my first joint over forty years ago, I was in my twenties when I lost the ability to pick it up and put it down at will, then I abstained almost completely for years, it just is symbiotic with me now, morning to night part of me and I told key family members, including my adult children, so I'm not trying to hide anything any more. I'm a weed-human hybrid from this point forwards, but the opiates I am going to deal with.
 
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@Squeaky how much do you reduce by each time? Is it a third, half, what is the proportion you recommend?
I can’t exactly remember anymore, but you’re on the right track: cut by percentages, not milligrams. The smaller the %, the less you’ll suffer obviously. I think 25% per week is a good place to start. But the real trick is to stabilize your blood concentration levels first, taking the exact same dose at regular intervals every day.

I tried the plan where I gave myself a ‘limit’ per day. Say 30mg per day this week. Next thing I know I’m trying to skip my morning dose so that I can save it for a bigger dose in the evening and REALLY relax. Then I’m taking a little extra in the morning and promising myself I’ll make up for it by taking less tonight. Suddenly it’s been 2weeks and my tolerance is higher than ever and I’m on track to run out of pills again.

I was using my pills as a pacifier. I was not only addicted to the medication, but I was addicted to what the pills represented to me: hope. If I take a little more today then it will be a better day for me. It wasn’t until I saw that I was using them as a crutch that things started to change. I had to separate the facets of my addiction and deal with them separately. And the best way for me to do that was to remove the highs and lows that came with a random dosing schedule. I recommend deciding on a schedule you can stick to and take your pods on time every day for a week, whether you need them ir not. Hopefully that will start to retrain your brain to find solutions elsewhere. After that, it should be a litte easier to taper down.
 
I can’t exactly remember anymore, but you’re on the right track: cut by percentages, not milligrams. The smaller the %, the less you’ll suffer obviously. I think 25% per week is a good place to start. But the real trick is to stabilize your blood concentration levels first, taking the exact same dose at regular intervals every day.

I tried the plan where I gave myself a ‘limit’ per day. Say 30mg per day this week. Next thing I know I’m trying to skip my morning dose so that I can save it for a bigger dose in the evening and REALLY relax. Then I’m taking a little extra in the morning and promising myself I’ll make up for it by taking less tonight. Suddenly it’s been 2weeks and my tolerance is higher than ever and I’m on track to run out of pills again.

I was using my pills as a pacifier. I was not only addicted to the medication, but I was addicted to what the pills represented to me: hope. If I take a little more today then it will be a better day for me. It wasn’t until I saw that I was using them as a crutch that things started to change. I had to separate the facets of my addiction and deal with them separately. And the best way for me to do that was to remove the highs and lows that came with a random dosing schedule. I recommend deciding on a schedule you can stick to and take your pods on time every day for a week, whether you need them ir not. Hopefully that will start to retrain your brain to find solutions elsewhere. After that, it should be a litte easier to taper down.
My tummy hurts a lot of the time, it might be the pods.

You're right and it's gone up in steps, not gradually. I'll take more one day because I need a good day, then the next few days I stay there because it's nice, then I stay there because I feel bad otherwise. So I stay there until the next time I need a better day, then I go up another step.

I don't make bargains with myself about the future the way you do. I think the bargaining, reasoning part of my brain switches off, I go on autopilot and I ignore any voice of reason in there. I literally blank those thoughts, I'm aware of them being there and I dismiss them without hearing the words.

If I try to get other thoughts out of my head, ordinary thoughts, like in meditation for example, I can't do it. That's interesting, I'll think about that one some more, maybe I can do it.
 
Thank you guys.
I cannot make it until the 20 th to get more Subutex.
I did take them wrong at first.
It isn’t a choice of just suffer it out.
I would be screaming and freaking.
I cannot physically make it through, my body has gone through way too much as of late.

I have been taking very small pieces of the one Subutex I have left.
Now, I only have a half left .
I am not stabilized anymore.

I go to the doctor tomorrow.
If she won’t help me, I am going to have to go to the hospital,
I am very worried.

You would think this is a common thing to happen.
I told her how much I was needing then called her back to ask again and she didn’t return my call.

Don’t know how I am even going to make it to the appointment tomorrow.
 
PS- you do not feel anything from the stupid Suboxone stuff.
It just makes you feel “not sick”.
It was taking a higher dosage at first to keep my chronic pain under control.
I am dealing with that too.

The doctor said that was alright and I was doing great.
I haven’t been able to talk to her yet.
Just the jackals at the front desk who like to scare people shitless.
 
. . . . to keep my chronic pain under control.
I am dealing with that too
I haven’t been able to talk to her yet.
Just the jackals at the front desk who like to scare people shitless.
I have had that exactly happen to me before. I'm being serious. They better help you.

I needed medicine too.
 
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I thought that I had spelled something incorrectly but did not. Sorry I did not mean to hit edit !!
I have had that exactly happen to me before. I'm being serious. They better help you.

I needed medicine too.
I have met some others that have just kept and held on to their med's that have been previously prescribed. They go to their own private practice and their own doctor and pretty much there are others out there that have their medications " grandfathered. " And they say H Yeah praise 🙏

You just got caught up in all of the changes 'they' and all are making . . . exactly like what happened to me.

I didn't stay a step ahead of them.

My doctor used to say it too and his assistance ! I cried !!! :(💔✌️
 
My doctor said the Fe .... . . . . ed zzz were after him.

And I know others that still get their 120 qty.Norco's ???? 😯 Just like I DID !!

true story no lies !!
 
@Painful One I hope you doctor uses her common sense when you speak, let us know how you got on. I'm at the hospital myself today, uncomfortably cleanish until my husband fetches me with something nice for going home with.

There is nothing wrong with trying to live your life pain free, every person has the right to aim for that if they want imo.
I think I come on here partly to deal with the shame, here I can just speak, no need to hide what I'm doing, so the shame lifts. Logically I have nothing to feel shame for, I'm in pain if I don't medicate, for reasons that are incurable at present, it does no good to sit in pain all day, I am in pain all day as it is, just reduced pain courtesy of the doctors and then I take a bit more off as well.

It is terrible to be treated like a criminal for being in pain and trying to solve it.
 
Bernese Method / Fentanyl / ISO Feedback

Let me get to the point. I am currently using about a g-g1/2 of fentanyl a day. Over the past 2 weeks I have been tapering my Suboxone up relatively quick but still following the Bernese method guidelines for micro dosing buprenorphine and have maxed out at 16 mg a day. Is this a high enough dose that when I stop taking the fetty that I won’t go through severe withdrawal symptoms? Does anyone have any helpful advice or insight? This whole last week, I have been waiting for the right time/putting it off for the fear of withdrawals. This anxiety/fear comes from what happened when I tried to stop last weekend. I had only tapered up to 8mg of Suboxone a day but I assumed there was enough Suboxone in my system that I shouldn’t be too sick. I believed this mostly because I had come back to reality and wasn’t really getting high off the fentanyl I was doing (If you are wondering why I thought this, please read the backstory below where I explain how I got off methadone using the Bernese Method.) Unfortunately, after only 24 hours, I was in pretty serious withdrawals (Eyes dilated, cold sweats, kicking when trying to lay down, muscle spasms, diarrhea, vomiting Yellow acid, loud ringing in my ears, and so on. Do any of you guys know if fentanyl is just too strong of an opiate for Suboxone to take its place on your receptors completely using this method. Also, does anyone have other recommendations for how to prepare so that maybe the withdrawals are not so bad? I physically do not think I can go through anymore withdrawals, let alone fentanyl withdrawals, which might I add is so much worse than heroin or anything else that I have had to kick.
Backstory:
This isn’t my first rodeo when it comes to kicking opiates as I have kicked heroin a good 15-20 times and I have kicked Methadone after being on 85mgs a day for a year however this is my first time kicking fentanyl. My main technique that I have always used to try and avoid and cut down on the traumatic withdrawals has been Suboxone and specifically the Bernese method in the beginning to avoid the precipitated withdrawals. My biggest win was quite recently when I was able to stop taking Methadone completely after being on 85mgs a day. This happened in less that a week altogether and without ANY withdrawals. Unfortunately, after getting off of the methadone, I started having cravings for opiates again. I had definitely forgotten what it was like to crave opiates but i have heard it described like this.. “jump into a pool and swim to the bottom of the deep end. Then blow out all your air. That feeling you have in your chest and stomach which is forcing you to swim back to the top is what having a craving feels like” this pretty accurately describes what it felt like to me last weekend when i was trying to detox. I knew that if I used again that most likely I would lose my place to live, my girlfriend because she is sick of going through this, and I am already in financial disaster. I was able to fight it for quite some time until after a nasal surgery where they would hopefully fix my breathing. I knew going into it that they wouldn’t be giving me very many pain meds because of my addict status written all over my charts. Unfortunately the pain meds the surgeon prescribed barely did anything for the pain, assuming because buprenorphine is an opiate blocker. I was in so much pain, I couldn’t drink water, eat anything, sleep, breathe, or really do anything for what had been 7 days before I chose to self medicate. 1 day of that turned into another and turned into another. It has been 3 weeks now and all I want is to be off of this stuff before it kills me.

Thank you all for reading of you read it. If you didn’t, don’t worry I won’t be offended. My ADHD would allow me to read something this long.
 
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