-
The Dark Side 💕 Welcome Guest 💕
Posting Rules Bluelight Rules Notable Threads Urgent Hotlines Bereavement Mindfulness Suicide Support Anger Management -
TDS Moderators: AlphaMethylPhenyl | paranoid android
Positive The Tapering Support Thread v 2.0
- Thread starter Jerry Atrick
- Start date
I don’t think I will, but I have been sooooo wrong before. A year ago I was angry at the ‘system’ that I couldn’t have more pills. Today I’m angry at myself for not having the strength to cancel my next Dr appointment. Hopefully a year from now, I will have gone a few months without seeing my Dr and be angry at myself for not having shut that door sooner.
I am absolutely making progress. It’s really slow, and I can’t believe how long it’s taking. But there is definitely movement in the right direction. If I can just focus on not going backwards (even if I get stuck, not moving forward but also not regressing), then I will eventually reach my destination.
It feels like a really long drive with a car that keeps breaking down. As long as we don’t give up and go back home, we’ll get to our destination eventually.
papercuts
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2021
- Messages
- 1,277
Indeed you will get there Squeaky, it's a long road, but you're going the right direction and you certainly don't seem in love with your drug any more.
I figured the only way I'm going to do this painlessly is to weigh each day's dose accurately and make sure that each week I'm keeping to one point less than last week's daily max, then in a year or two I'd be free.
I was ok until week three got boring...
Now I've got to get back to that starting point...
I figured the only way I'm going to do this painlessly is to weigh each day's dose accurately and make sure that each week I'm keeping to one point less than last week's daily max, then in a year or two I'd be free.
I was ok until week three got boring...
Now I've got to get back to that starting point...
I tried that. It sounded like a really solid plan. Problem I had was that I got too comfortable after only a day or two and decided I earned a break.
It only took one day to undo any progress I had made and return my progress back to zero. Then I would have something “important” (at work, family function, etc) and I allowed myself a bit extra so I could be extra awesome. After even one day of deviation from my plan, I was back to where I had started or worse. Then the depression sets in and I’m blaming myself for being stupid, so I take a little extra because I’m really sad. Then I’m doing the math on how much I used, how much I have left, and how many days I have until my next refill. Now I’m just giving up for this month and promising myself I’ll try again next month. And that whole process only took a couple of days.
The reason anybody is here on BL reading this thread is because we tried policing ourselves and failed over and over again. Some people can do it, and taper off the drugs without help. We are not those people. If I had a huge jug of oxy in front of me, I would just use enough to feel OK. Then a little more. Then a little more. Then extra for some good sleep. Then more to help get the day started. The more to have strength at work, or patience at home. Then after a week of making myself promises and breaking every one of them I would be right back where I was a year ago and be using more than ever just because I’m sad or angry at myself for being such an idiot.
I keep telling myself that I’m smart. I know that I’m tough. I can definitely see that I have the ability to get through the wd’s because I have done it numerous times. I’m not using the pills to get ‘high’ so my mind tells me to that it shouldn’t be very difficult (not getting high means I’m not an addict right?). But opiates make life soooo much less difficult in ways that normal folks can’t understand. The pull they exert on my mind is unbelievable, just because life hurts and they stop the pain. Compound all of that with Dr’s saying that opiate wd lasts only a few days and my subconscious mind convinces me that my pills are medically necessary and I really SHOULD use as much as I feel I need to feel ‘OK’.
Tapering just doesn’t work for some of us. The only way for me to do it successfully is to have someone else hold the pills. But I’m too ashamed to admit to that person how much I crave whatever the pills I do for me that I can’t be completely honest with him/her and I always find a way to cheat. And then when I’m ‘done’ and clean for a few weeks, that person stops worrying about me relapsing and I fall right back into my old habits. The only way I quit for any length of time was to get rid of everything, deal with the cold turkey wd’s, tell my wife what was happening (so I didn’t have to fake feeling ’OK’ until the physical wd’s were done), and resign myself to the fact that I could never go back to my pills even once.
And believe it or not.... Jumping off when I had tapered down to two doses per day of 5mg each of oxy, was basically the same as (or maybe even worse than) quitting c/t from 500mg oxy per day. And every time I lowered my dose during a taper, I suffered A LOT. I think I’m just different, but cold turkey was probably less difficult and more effective than tapering.
I’m doing a lot better now. I don’t even know when my next Dr appointment is. I’m using Kratom only for my aches and pains, and I’m going 10-12 hours at night without needing anything (even Kratom). Maybe I’m just finally settling into the fact that my body will always hurt at least a little.
It’s clear to me that the worst part of getting away from opiates is the depression. I tell myself that I need only the pain relief, but that’s not the whole picture. The sadness is endless and it makes my pains 10x worse. The despair comes with the knowledge that there’s a cure for my problems is just out if reach. I spend so much time wishing that life didn’t suck. I don’t fix the little things in life that clutter my head (like driving a dirty car or leaving the bed unmade) because I’m miserable. It feels like the walls are closing in around me and all I can think about is feeling better, having energy, enjoying food, etc. And the pills fix everything.
I’m slowly working on untying the knot that is my life. I’ll get my next prescription filled, use it up, and start the cycle over. BUT.... every time I do, it gets a little easier. I’m going through 100 Percocet’s in a couple of days. Tons of Tylenol in there, so I’ll spend a week just waiting for my liver to heal (generations of alcoholics in my family = strong liver). I know it’s not sustainable and really not smart. But there’s progress growing somewhere in there.
It’s clear to me that the worst part of getting away from opiates is the depression. I tell myself that I need only the pain relief, but that’s not the whole picture. The sadness is endless and it makes my pains 10x worse. The despair comes with the knowledge that there’s a cure for my problems is just out if reach. I spend so much time wishing that life didn’t suck. I don’t fix the little things in life that clutter my head (like driving a dirty car or leaving the bed unmade) because I’m miserable. It feels like the walls are closing in around me and all I can think about is feeling better, having energy, enjoying food, etc. And the pills fix everything.
I’m slowly working on untying the knot that is my life. I’ll get my next prescription filled, use it up, and start the cycle over. BUT.... every time I do, it gets a little easier. I’m going through 100 Percocet’s in a couple of days. Tons of Tylenol in there, so I’ll spend a week just waiting for my liver to heal (generations of alcoholics in my family = strong liver). I know it’s not sustainable and really not smart. But there’s progress growing somewhere in there.
If I ever make it to the other side of this problem..... Someone should take all of my years of posts, put them in some sort of chronological order, and make them into a book. I know there’s other people in the world like me: successful, strong, and intelligent: who are living exactly like me and thinking there’s no way out (and who also don’t really know how to use a semicolon). Maybe even required reading for pain management Dr’s who genuinely want to help their patients without making them addicts.
Do it and I’ll sign it..... but not with my real name of course
Do it and I’ll sign it..... but not with my real name of course
Fertile
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2022
- Messages
- 1,627
Well, I'm managing on 80mg of oxycodone a day. I take 30mg twice a day (8 hour intervals) and then 20mg (2 x 10mg) and 200mg of codeine (to replace the 10mg of oxy I don't have).
I get a bit snotty from 6.30-8.00 (when I take a 30), the 4PM 30 and I'm fine.... then HOPEFULLY I sleep through the 20+codeine.
I think that getting snotty is good - it's mild withdrawal and so my body is adjusting to the lower dose of oxy.
If you wonder how this happened, I was on 30mg OxyContin BID but it only lasts 8 hours so my doctor also gave me 10mg of OxyContin BID. Apparently in the UK, the rules say OxyContin can ONLY be given every 12 hours. So my body is adjusting. The most I ever have in my body is 30mg plus the bit left from the previous dose (not much after 8 hours).
But it's a tightrope. Even if I feel fine, if I put off taking a dose, my system totally falls apart and I have to take an extra 10.
But after a 28 day script, I still have 9 x 30mg & 3 x 10mg tablets spare. I need them because the pharmacist has screwed up 3 times in 1 year. I have now learnt that I should ring the doctor and ask for an alternative in case their is no OxyContin.
I was even offered more.... but MORE every 12 hours! I do not want more. Well, OK, 10mg so I could take 30mg TID but that is it. The doctor offered to give 40mg OxyContin. Here in the UK they make 120mg tablets and the BNF even says 'some patients may need more than 400mg!!!! I mean, that seems crazy to me.
But I do not feel anything. My nose stops running but that is all. I think I now have at least some idea of what a nightmare it must be for people who are using 1-1.5 grams of heroin a day. Even if you get onto a methadone script, it would take years to get down to zero and all the while the pharmacy staff treat you like scum. I get a 28 day supply but I still fret as I get down to just a couple of pills. If you don't know day to day if your medicine will be there, it must be SO stressful.
I have the upmost respect for people who realize they made a mistake and are doing their best to get clean. It seems like nobody cares or if they care, they actively dislike you. But it's not called 'the liquid handcuffs' for nothing. So just to let you know that one person respects that you are doing your best.
I get a bit snotty from 6.30-8.00 (when I take a 30), the 4PM 30 and I'm fine.... then HOPEFULLY I sleep through the 20+codeine.
I think that getting snotty is good - it's mild withdrawal and so my body is adjusting to the lower dose of oxy.
If you wonder how this happened, I was on 30mg OxyContin BID but it only lasts 8 hours so my doctor also gave me 10mg of OxyContin BID. Apparently in the UK, the rules say OxyContin can ONLY be given every 12 hours. So my body is adjusting. The most I ever have in my body is 30mg plus the bit left from the previous dose (not much after 8 hours).
But it's a tightrope. Even if I feel fine, if I put off taking a dose, my system totally falls apart and I have to take an extra 10.
But after a 28 day script, I still have 9 x 30mg & 3 x 10mg tablets spare. I need them because the pharmacist has screwed up 3 times in 1 year. I have now learnt that I should ring the doctor and ask for an alternative in case their is no OxyContin.
I was even offered more.... but MORE every 12 hours! I do not want more. Well, OK, 10mg so I could take 30mg TID but that is it. The doctor offered to give 40mg OxyContin. Here in the UK they make 120mg tablets and the BNF even says 'some patients may need more than 400mg!!!! I mean, that seems crazy to me.
But I do not feel anything. My nose stops running but that is all. I think I now have at least some idea of what a nightmare it must be for people who are using 1-1.5 grams of heroin a day. Even if you get onto a methadone script, it would take years to get down to zero and all the while the pharmacy staff treat you like scum. I get a 28 day supply but I still fret as I get down to just a couple of pills. If you don't know day to day if your medicine will be there, it must be SO stressful.
I have the upmost respect for people who realize they made a mistake and are doing their best to get clean. It seems like nobody cares or if they care, they actively dislike you. But it's not called 'the liquid handcuffs' for nothing. So just to let you know that one person respects that you are doing your best.
papercuts
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2021
- Messages
- 1,277
Hi Fertile, your post surprised me, I thought noone in the UK got oxycontin unless they had terminal cancer or similar. For me it was straight from OTC painkillers to buprenorphine patches with nothing fun or interesting in between, what condition did they give you oxycontin for?
If it's not lasting 12 hours, can you divide your pills and take a half more frequently?
I know that if the weather is hot, then on day seven of my seven day patch I can barely get out of bed, the med will have run done, extra under my tongue is required. If the weather is cold a patch lasts 8-10 days, I guess slower absorbtion when there is no sweating. The pharmacist and doctor didn't know that absorbtion varies so much until I told them, I think they believed me but the only solution offered was to increase my dose at all times and then I get scared they have too much power in my life, so I declined and quietly upped my intake of pod tea instead. At least I feel I have control of that in a way, not sure what way, I'm worse than ever in my overall use of opiates and then on top I had three herbal vaporisers lined up last night, each filled with a premium 25% green, vaped them all in quick succession just to get some sleep because the 150mg thc caramels weren't doing it. I do that every night and I definitely enjoy it, but the next day I'm so slow and just looking for the first excuse for the first vape of the day.
I'm only doing this to myself, noone is making me, but then I try to get clean and my sodding issues come up, crowd my mind and make me wonder which is more comfortable? Dying or living clean?
So the middle path gets taken again while I avoid pondering the question, I got shit to do, y'know?.
papercuts
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2021
- Messages
- 1,277
It is already an epic journey to read.If I ever make it to the other side of this problem..... Someone should take all of my years of posts, put them in some sort of chronological order, and make them into a book. I know there’s other people in the world like me: successful, strong, and intelligent: who are living exactly like me and thinking there’s no way out (and who also don’t really know how to use a semicolon). Maybe even required reading for pain management Dr’s who genuinely want to help their patients without making them addicts.
Do it and I’ll sign it..... but not with my real name of course
Your story, "How to look at quitting from every possible angle ever considered by patient or physician and still not quit."
I got to wonder sometimes if an intelligent person has studied it in so much depth and still uses, then maybe using is for the best?
Or maybe I'm just a junkie in denial myself
Yeah, I guess that fits.Welcome to the thread Fertile.
Once you have been on opiates daily for a year or two, you’re not maintaining your tolerance unless you’re in some sort of withdrawl for a few hours every day. The most mild symptoms are things like hot flashes, mild insomnia, and sneezing/runny nose. As soon as you get just enough oxy in your system to stop even the most insignificant wd’s, you see that you’re taking more today than yesterday. That’s the dangerous path I started on about 2 years into my journey. You’re smart to recognize that you’re in that situation. And your nose/sinus congestion is definitely a mild wd symptom.
My real troubles began with time-release oxy. I figured out later that it makes for a non-stop and consistent level of drugs in your blood. Just like an alcoholic who needs a drink in the morning to stop their shaking hands, you eventually need to keep a certain level of oxy in your blood just to feel ‘normal’. As soon as that starts.... you’re screwed. No more genuine pain relief. There’s only relief from the wd’s unless you increase your dose.
I think that’s why they limit us to one dose every 8 or 12 hours. If there’s no downtime between doses, the opiates stop working for what they were prescribed. And they quickly begin to cause new pain that you’ll need more oxy to cure.
“Dying or living clean?”
Death starts sounding pretty good when the only other choices are slavery(to the pills) or endless withdrawals
I think we’re all protecting our right to use the drugs. Doesn’t matter if the reason is legitimate or not. The thought of giving them up sounds miserable.It is already an epic journey to read.
Your story, "How to look at quitting from every possible angle ever considered by patient or physician and still not quit."
I got to wonder sometimes if an intelligent person has studied it in so much depth and still uses, then maybe using is for the best?
Or maybe I'm just a junkie in denial myself
papercuts
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2021
- Messages
- 1,277
The withdrawals are far too endless any time I've tried. Death, I'm not ready to try, so slavery it is, or voluntary servitude?
Not so much a slave as a temple servant working for the love of a God instead of money. I've not gone more than a few weeks without giving in but it doesn't seem that way at the time. At the time it feels like I've gone years already, each minute being confronted with every unpleasant thought, sensation or dark emotion playing on repeat while the endless nights drag on and on and it's just hard work.
I know I could pop a tepazepam and maybe sleep but equal chances I'll pop a temazepam and then keep popping until I try every med I have before running back to the opiates for a hug. I know it's only a matter of time anyway until I give in, so I end my suffering sooner. Then there is the buprenorphine patch that I still notice when it's running out which tells me my tolerance must be OK so maybe I'm on less than I think overall, wouldn't that be nice
I tried to calculate my morphine intake, couldn't do it. We're talking about 150g of afghan poppy heads a week, thoroughly extracted. Might be 60mg a day or might be 300mg, anyone got an educated guess?Anyway, spent the day making golden dragon from black sugar trimmings and green dragon from fat banana trims. I don't know which is stronger, but the golden one gunges up the dropper bottles that bit less over time.
somnilicious
Bluelighter
Poppy straw is said to contain .3%-.4% morphine, which would equal 65-85mgs a day if you're using 150grams a week by those calculations. Not including other alkaloids.The withdrawals are far too endless any time I've tried. Death, I'm not ready to try, so slavery it is, or voluntary servitude?
Not so much a slave as a temple servant working for the love of a God instead of money. I've not gone more than a few weeks without giving in but it doesn't seem that way at the time. At the time it feels like I've gone years already, each minute being confronted with every unpleasant thought, sensation or dark emotion playing on repeat while the endless nights drag on and on and it's just hard work.
I know I could pop a tepazepam and maybe sleep but equal chances I'll pop a temazepam and then keep popping until I try every med I have before running back to the opiates for a hug. I know it's only a matter of time anyway until I give in, so I end my suffering sooner. Then there is the buprenorphine patch that I still notice when it's running out which tells me my tolerance must be OK so maybe I'm on less than I think overall, wouldn't that be nice
Anyway, spent the day making golden dragon from black sugar trimmings and green dragon from fat banana trims. I don't know which is stronger, but the golden one gunges up the dropper bottles that bit less over time.
papercuts
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2021
- Messages
- 1,277
The patch I have from the doctor gives me 28mg a day morphine equivalence, I'm surprised that isn't enough to catch me. Coming down to just 28mg equiv in buprenorphine is very unpleasant as they say and I'm not thinking of going to zero ever.
So I'm on about 100mg a day, good to put a number to it, that number means very little I can keep it there.
It's not just the morphine, as you say the other alkaloids pack some soothing effects themselves.
If I switched to just Buprenorphine, I'd need four patches at a time, but it doesn't work. I've tried it on lower doses and buprenorphine doesn't make raw opium withdrawals easy at all because it only replaces the morphine part of that complex bundle of alkaloids.
I suppose what it might do is to help split the process into two parts. Part one deals with withdrawal from the extra alkaloids, part two deals with the bupe/morphine dependance. I can't be annoyed to do it. I've a little time off work, I work about three weeks in four, every time this week off comes about I think I should use it to get off this shit. Instead I kick back and enjoy this shit.
Because life is ticking along nicely it seems fine to let it slide.
I know I'm heaping up a pile of shit for myself to swim back through to be able to live normally and not panic about how to travel without getting either sick or caught.
To think in January this year I had this pretty much under control, Feb was good, once or twice a week then. Now it's like I never quit at all plus some.
Last edited:
Been there. Done that. Got the t shirt and the hat.
Every time I almost quit, I got a tiny bit closer to success. I’m still not done yet, but when I look back to about 2 years ago I was doing the same thing. 2 steps forward, one step back (sometimes 2 or 3 steps back). Progress is painfully slow.
Every time I thought I had it under control.... my big mistake was thinking that I had any control at all. When life sucks, and there’s a very discreet way to make it not suck, and it fits in my pocket, and it doesn’t make me smell strange, it’s all I can think about. The only real solution is to take that choice away and force myself to find other solutions.
It’s soooo easy to sit on the outside and judge someone else. “Why don’t you just quit?”. I would love to follow that asshole around and say “Why don’t you just quit cheeseburgers?” or “Why don’t you stop looking at Facebook?” Everyone is addicted to something. The only difference is that our problems have a name. It’s not ok to call someone ’fat’, but nobody has a problem calling us ‘addicts’
It’s soooo easy to sit on the outside and judge someone else. “Why don’t you just quit?”. I would love to follow that asshole around and say “Why don’t you just quit cheeseburgers?” or “Why don’t you stop looking at Facebook?” Everyone is addicted to something. The only difference is that our problems have a name. It’s not ok to call someone ’fat’, but nobody has a problem calling us ‘addicts’
papercuts
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2021
- Messages
- 1,277
Someday they will look back at the scandal of how people who got hooked on drugs were treated by the entire system, but it won't be soon.
papercuts
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2021
- Messages
- 1,277
When almost noone knows, it's easy enough to pretend that you don't spend large portions of some days securing enough supply for yourself to be safe from opiate withdrawal or even from the discomfort of going without weed.
I'm saving up my gabapentin and clonidine, even as I'm typing this I've tears in my eyes, prickles behind my neck, pounding heart and my brain is screaming nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I'm saving up my gabapentin and clonidine, even as I'm typing this I've tears in my eyes, prickles behind my neck, pounding heart and my brain is screaming nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
papercuts
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2021
- Messages
- 1,277
I really do want to taper down my useage, it's just my brain and my body that don't. Not yet. Not ever because no time is ever going to look good if it has a stretch of boredom/recouperation after it and it has to because quitting takes it out of me physically. So there's a neat catch 22 to hang onto.
That's what I love about here, this thread, it's all about working out why you haven't quit yet.
For me, it's because I've more pressing reasons for using than for quitting and every day I make sure those reasons stay intact.
That's what I love about here, this thread, it's all about working out why you haven't quit yet.
For me, it's because I've more pressing reasons for using than for quitting and every day I make sure those reasons stay intact.