The student loan trap (rant thread)

[Jerry Atrick]

Anybody take out student loans that will likely never be paid in full? I did

The very first day of grad school, our entire cohort was in a classroom and one of the profs literally told us not to work while in school, that student loans were a better option that could be paid back with the wonderful careers we would get after graduating. Big mistake. I think only one or two out of the whole group worked at least part time jobs. The rest of us fell for the lie.

I think my total after a little bit in undergrad and for a two year grad program was around $80K. I've always been on a payment program based on earnings, which means a sizable chunk each month but with enough left over for rent and food. After nearly 10 years of making the minimum payments, my balance has increased by over $10K due to interest accrued.

What bothers me is, if people like Alex Jones can file bankruptcy to avoid paying their defamation lawsuits, why can't we claim bankruptcy to relieve ourselves of this predatory crippling lifetime of debt? Believe me, if I could sue the professor or my university for selling us into taking out loans, I would. But I don't think that is even an option and if there was, surely there is a statute of limitations that has expired. Hell, I was full blown mentally ill and on Disability payments while in grad school, so I could even claim my believing I could get a high paying career was a delusion of grandeur. I just don't know what to do other than hope for some kind of reprieve from my rich Uncle Sam.

LESSON: If any of you find yourselves in a similar situation, please treat it like gambling. Either don't do it at all or only take out what you can easily pay back and supplement the rest with grants, scholarships, or by working. I would honestly advise not doing it at all. I've seen articles of people who only took out $20K, paid like $10K in monthly payments, and with interest accrued still end up owing quadruple the original amount.

 

[Eligiu]

So in Australia we have a different system, but still fucked compared to the golden years.

When my parents went to uni under Gough Whitlam, they went for free. The outcome of this policy was that the world of teriary education was opened wide to those Australians who otherwise would never have dreamt of affording University. Like my mother for example, a first generation Italian immigrant from Venice who spoke Italian until she attended school and never spoke English at home. My dad was fine.

At some point the successive governments decided that this was no longer sustainable so they implemented Higher Education Something Something Debt. It's called a HECS debt. It's an interest free loan you only have to pay back after you start making money past a certain level, so if you're dirt poor you don't have to stress. And it never increases.

It's not a perfect system, as if you're me and did a double major in German Studies and Modern History plus a full Law degree as well as a Graduate Diploma of Legal Practice, including 3 attempts at contract law due to the level of your addiction at the time well by the end your debt is around $90,000 all up, and you can just chuck on that $7000 Overseas Help Loan you got from the government to study your final German credit overseas too at that stage. I mean what's the damn difference?

The issue is, we get saddled with debt too. I cannot even comprehend my level of debt and I don't have to pay it off yet due to being on disabilty for the foreseeable future. How the fuck did I amass a $90,000 debt from going to university? And why on earth do boomers my parents age who got their fucking degree free of change criticise my generation for complaining about massive debts? That is absolutely absurd.

I am grateful that our system is marginally better than the United States. But it's really not by much.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

This is why I did not go to graduate school. I just recently just paid off my undergraduate loan and I was working as an undergraduate.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

So in Australia we have a different system, but still fucked compared to the golden years.

When my parents went to uni under Gough Whitlam, they went for free. The outcome of this policy was that the world of teriary education was opened wide to those Australians who otherwise would never have dreamt of affording University. Like my mother for example, a first generation Italian immigrant from Venice who spoke Italian until she attended school and never spoke English at home. My dad was fine.

At some point the successive governments decided that this was no longer sustainable so they implemented Higher Education Something Something Debt. It's called a HECS debt. It's an interest free loan you only have to pay back after you start making money past a certain level, so if you're dirt poor you don't have to stress. And it never increases.

It's not a perfect system, as if you're me and did a double major in German Studies and Modern History plus a full Law degree as well as a Graduate Diploma of Legal Practice, including 3 attempts at contract law due to the level of your addiction at the time well by the end your debt is around $90,000 all up, and you can just chuck on that $7000 Overseas Help Loan you got from the government to study your final German credit overseas too at that stage. I mean what's the damn difference?

The issue is, we get saddled with debt too. I cannot even comprehend my level of debt and I don't have to pay it off yet due to being on disabilty for the foreseeable future. How the fuck did I amass a $90,000 debt from going to university? And why on earth do boomers my parents age who got their fucking degree free of change criticise my generation for complaining about massive debts? That is absolutely absurd.

I am grateful that our system is marginally better than the United States. But it's really not by much.

We have boomers in the US with the same mentality but instead of them having gotten their educations free of charge, they paid like $500 per semester for tuition. That figure has exploded exponentially over time but average wages have stagnated way behind. I think part of the problem is that the boomers who graduated with tuition being so affordable all grew up and took over the public universities and turned them into one more capitalistic enterprise.

That and the student loan industry is predatory and exploitative. Let's say an 18 year old kid wants to get a mortgage on a house with no credit, little work experience, and not much income. They'd tell him or her to take a hike. But the same kid graduates high school and is required to fill out a FAFSA (Free Application for Federal Student Aid) and that document alone makes it a piece of cake to take out tens of thousands of dollars in loans, no questions asked. Sign the dotted fucking line.

I found a Wall Street Journal article referenced on Twitter that basically stated if student loans were forgiven, the military could possibly run out of volunteers. This is because the GI Bill offers free tuition or student loan forgiveness. Imagine signing up for the meat grinder that is the US military and being expected to either kill or be killed just to pay off your loans. And people believe that isn't exploitative in and of itself. Here's the article but you may have to register (supposedly for free) to read it:

Opinion | An Unintended Consequence of Student-Debt Relief

Will young Americans volunteer for the armed forces in adequate numbers?

www.wsj.com

 

[Jerry Atrick]

This is why I did not go to graduate school. I just recently just paid off my undergraduate loan and I was working as an undergraduate.

Believe me, hindsight 20/20 and all, I would have NEVER attended grad school had I known what I do now.

It certainly didn't help being mentally ill and having faulty decision making processes. I had delusions that I'd earn a PhD and be a bonafide college professor when I grew up. I'm so glad I stopped at a master's and didn't accrue even more debt attempting 4 to 6 more years of additional education.

 

[Xorkoth]

The student loan/cost of college thing is really crazy, and not a good thing for society, at all. Why is it that when you go back a few decades, a person could work a summer job or a weekend job and go to college and pay for it, and exit without debt. Nowadays, the cost has ballooned so much that people are getting saddled with debt that will take them 10 years, or (much) more, to pay off. People getting higher education are coming out of it to fill roles in society that help society function at a higher level. We shouldn't be saddling kids with crippling debt for trying to get there. I'm not even saying college should be free for everyone... but it should be affordable. Why did it used to be, and now it isn't? What changed?

I went to college, and was fortunate to go to an in-state school and my parents paid for most of it. So I didn't have student loan debt. I knew what I wanted to study, so even if I had come out with debt it would have been worth it, because my field (computer science) is a good career path. But a lot of people just go to college because their parents and society always said it's what you do. They don't know what they want to do with their lives yet, and so many end up just getting a degree in sociology or something, get saddled with debt, and don't even use their degree. My recommendation to people is always to definitely go to college if you want to, but wait until you know what you want to get out of it. Or at least, you need to figure out what you want out of it by the time your gen eds are done. And speaking of gen eds, you can do that at a community college for a fraction of the cost. Though I have to say, my first 2 years at college were an epic amount of fun, and I am glad to have those memories... so there's that.

I'm so glad I didn't go to grad school. I almost did, but I have absolutely no need for it. Some people do, some areas of study and career involve academia throughout your life, or are so specialized that you have to do it (like medical school). But for me, the debt would not at all have been worth it. I can learn whatever programming stuff I need sitting here at my computer.

 

[Skorpio]

That was a big reason I never considered getting a master's degree out of college. I worked as a lab tech and published a paper (was very lucky to be in a tiny lab with real responsibilities beyond dishwashing), and now I get paid to go to school (though with grants, the university still makes quite a cut off me).

 

[Jerry Atrick]

The student loan/cost of college thing is really crazy, and not a good thing for society, at all. Why is it that when you go back a few decades, a person could work a summer job or a weekend job and go to college and pay for it, and exit without debt. Nowadays, the cost has ballooned so much that people are getting saddled with debt that will take them 10 years, or more, to pay off. People getting higher education are coming out of it to fill roles in society that help society function at a higher level. We shouldn't be saddling kid with crippling debt for trying to get there. I'm no even saying college should be free for everyone... but it should be affordable. Why did it used to be, and now it isn't? What changed?

Here's my take on it....

We have boomers in the US with the same mentality but instead of them having gotten their educations free of charge, they paid like $500 per semester for tuition. That figure has exploded exponentially over time but average wages have stagnated way behind. I think part of the problem is that the boomers who graduated with tuition being so affordable all grew up and took over the public universities and turned them into one more capitalistic enterprise.

All the hippies grew up and became Chancellors and Presidents of universities. They became the very machine they once raged against, man.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

That was a big reason I never considered getting a master's degree out of college. I worked as a lab tech and published a paper (was very lucky to be in a tiny lab with real responsibilities beyond dishwashing), and now I get paid to go to school (though with grants, the university still makes quite a cut off me).

I had a full ride scholarship for undergrad but never would have been able to afford to study abroad or go to Cancun for spring break without loans And I had part time jobs as well.

I was actually accepted into an honors research program as an undergrad but declined it to get a promotion at a shitty job. The research program would have gotten me published and would have likely set in motion scholarships for grad school.

But grad school ended up being a different story. We were explicitly told not to work jobs and to pay everything: tuition, rent, food, etc. with loans. I still had Pell grants but that wasn't much. What a sham!

 

[Skorpio]

I had a full ride scholarship for undergrad but never would have been able to afford to study abroad or go to Cancun for spring break without loans And I had part time jobs as well.

I was actually accepted into an honors research program as an undergrad but declined it to get a promotion at a shitty job. The research program would have gotten me published and would have likely set in motion scholarships for grad school.

But grad school ended up being a different story. We were explicitly told not to work jobs and to pay everything: tuition, rent, food, etc. with loans. I still had Pell grants but that wasn't much. What a sham!

Yeah that's real rotten. Doubly rotten due to the interest. One of my coworkers went to pharmacy school and hated it and then dropped out, and the loans are still over their head (and our salary is fairly humble; I regularly do paid medical studies for "lifestyle" money.

 

[Stassi202]

Anybody take out student loans that will likely never be paid in full? I did

The very first day of grad school, our entire cohort was in a classroom and one of the profs literally told us not to work while in school, that student loans were a better option that could be paid back with the wonderful careers we would get after graduating. Big mistake. I think only one or two out of the whole group worked at least part time jobs. The rest of us fell for the lie.

I think my total after a little bit in undergrad and for a two year grad program was around $80K. I've always been on a payment program based on earnings, which means a sizable chunk each month but with enough left over for rent and food. After nearly 10 years of making the minimum payments, my balance has increased by over $10K due to interest accrued.

What bothers me is, if people like Alex Jones can file bankruptcy to avoid paying their defamation lawsuits, why can't we claim bankruptcy to relieve ourselves of this predatory crippling lifetime of debt? Believe me, if I could sue the professor or my university for selling us into taking out loans, I would. But I don't think that is even an option and if there was, surely there is a statute of limitations that has expired. Hell, I was full blown mentally ill and on Disability payments while in grad school, so I could even claim my believing I could get a high paying career was a delusion of grandeur. I just don't know what to do other than hope for some kind of reprieve from my rich Uncle Sam.

LESSON: If any of you find yourselves in a similar situation, please treat it like gambling. Either don't do it at all or only take out what you can easily pay back and supplement the rest with grants, scholarships, or by working. I would honestly advise not doing it at all. I've seen articles of people who only took out $20K, paid like $10K in monthly payments, and with interest accrued still end up owing quadruple the original amount.

Bankruptcy does not forgive student loan debt.

 

[DieselNDope]

Anybody take out student loans that will likely never be paid in full? I did

The very first day of grad school, our entire cohort was in a classroom and one of the profs literally told us not to work while in school, that student loans were a better option that could be paid back with the wonderful careers we would get after graduating. Big mistake. I think only one or two out of the whole group worked at least part time jobs. The rest of us fell for the lie.

I think my total after a little bit in undergrad and for a two year grad program was around $80K. I've always been on a payment program based on earnings, which means a sizable chunk each month but with enough left over for rent and food. After nearly 10 years of making the minimum payments, my balance has increased by over $10K due to interest accrued.

What bothers me is, if people like Alex Jones can file bankruptcy to avoid paying their defamation lawsuits, why can't we claim bankruptcy to relieve ourselves of this predatory crippling lifetime of debt? Believe me, if I could sue the professor or my university for selling us into taking out loans, I would. But I don't think that is even an option and if there was, surely there is a statute of limitations that has expired. Hell, I was full blown mentally ill and on Disability payments while in grad school, so I could even claim my believing I could get a high paying career was a delusion of grandeur. I just don't know what to do other than hope for some kind of reprieve from my rich Uncle Sam.

LESSON: If any of you find yourselves in a similar situation, please treat it like gambling. Either don't do it at all or only take out what you can easily pay back and supplement the rest with grants, scholarships, or by working. I would honestly advise not doing it at all. I've seen articles of people who only took out $20K, paid like $10K in monthly payments, and with interest accrued still end up owing quadruple the original amount.

Damn man, I hate that your having to go through all of this shit.
I didn't get hit like you did but I for sure dealing with similar problems...
I got a Pell grant. Myself but I was only going to a little community College... (Never planned on going anywhere but figure I need to for my son). I only went for 2 years but being 18 trying to make it on your own with 2 kids and an ol lady is rough at times. This is when I actually fucked myself and picked up a 5k debt through the feds.
After I got out of school I tried setting up a payment plan...with me being stupid me had my girl set it up and to my account...I just always
-assumed-
It was being taken out monthly...until 3 years later when they took my entire tax refund check (around 4800). So I called them up and they said my 5k loan with interest of so much PER DAY.. I owed atound 15k ontop of the 4k they already took from me. Funny thing is I STILL owe like 5k on that shit.

Hope the best for ya
Stay strong and maybe some of you guys with big loans will get a "bail out" or loan forgiveness

 

[Xorkoth]

So how about this Biden loan forgiveness plan? $10k forgiven if you apply, or $20k if you got some sort of grant? Apparently the application will be available in October, from what I read. I hope some of you can get it. Of course for some, $10k isn't much of a dent, unfortunately.

SO glad I got rejected from the grad school I applied to. My ex-wife did a master's and another year on top of that. Her combined loans were like $90k. And it grew fast as she just deferred and deferred. She'll probably have those loans hanging over her for the rest of her life.

 

[G_Chem]

So how about this Biden loan forgiveness plan? $10k forgiven if you apply, or $20k if you got some sort of grant? Apparently the application will be available in October, from what I read. I hope some of you can get it. Of course for some, $10k isn't much of a dent, unfortunately.

SO glad I got rejected from the grad school I applied to. My ex-wife did a master's and another year on top of that. Her combined loans were like $90k. And it grew fast as she just deferred and deferred. She'll probably have those loans hanging over her for the rest of her life.

For my wife this is honestly a kick in the teeth, maybe 10x that amount would be good.. 10k is just to appease the masses with the bare minimum right before election season.

-GC

 

[CFC]

I think my loans are at about $80k now. The accrued interest is about half of that. Meh. No chance of them ever being 'forgiven' in the UK, they keep making them bigger and raising the interest.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

yea i got loans that'll never go away - one of them is from the mid 90s and im in the student loan forgiveness program, it's been over 20 years since then, and that loan is still there - so idk - i got another one after that, that's also approaching 20 years....i guess i'll let you guys know if i ever see them disappear like they say?

and i don't see how they're not predatory loans when you're a kid, with not even good credit, and with no real choice in the matter when you have to go school to make a decent living nowadays.....

what a racket

 

[CFC]

yea i got loans that'll never go away - one of them is from the mid 90s and im in the student loan forgiveness program, it's been over 20 years since then, and that loan is still there - so idk - i got another one after that, that's also approaching 20 years....i guess i'll let you guys know if i ever see them disappear like they say?

and i don't see how they're not predatory loans when you're a kid, with not even good credit, and with no real choice in the matter when you have to go school to make a decent living nowadays.....

what a racket

Yeah you're right, it's basically a racket. You need a degree for many/most jobs nowadays, so most kids have little choice but to rack up a huge life mortgage (which is what they should probably call it) if they want to enter or advance into a career

 

[bird.is.the.word]

I'm nearly 40 years old and I still have about 30k to pay back. I'll get there eventually. I did a 3 year degree in 8 years. Had a lot of fun at university. Was totally worth it for me and I knew what I was going into.

I wasn't sold a lie. My professors were always open with us. But - then - I was studying arts and everybody knows that's a waste of time.

I definitely agree that it's bullshit how much pressure is put on young people to get a "higher education".

I'm not going to do that with my daughter. She can be a plumber or a nomad if she likes. Life isn't about money.

I'm confused about something. In the US, don't you have to pay back your loans?

In Australia, we say our education is free but that's not true. The government pays for school then they take it out of your earnings when you get over a certain $/year. You pay 1% of gross earnings if you earn 50k (AUD) and 10% of gross if you earn 140k. It is capped at 10%. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

What happens if you don't pay in America? Nothing?

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

yea and there's no cap on how much these schools can charge - they just do whatever they want and rack in the money and nobody says anything


it's also the only loan you cant bankrupt out of

it's such a racket


they do make it so it's very easy to defer payments - so if you're not paying here, they'll garnish it from your wages at your place of employment - they'll keep your tax return....they'll try getting it one way or another - but there's really no need to go down that road when they do work with you if you just call them....and you can give them $10 a month and they really can't do anything about it - so it's not like dealing with loan sharks - but it's not far from it

 

[bird.is.the.word]

I think it probably is far from a loan shark by the sound of it?

Unless your loan sharks are soft also.

You can pay $10 a month for life and there's nothing they can do about it?

No wonder admission costs are rising.