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The Stolen Generation

syntech

syntech

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 2, 2002
Messages
1,693
Location
Melbourne
ok i know i might be flamed for this....but.....

does anyone else feel that we are not to blame for the stolen generation any more? our country has such a diversity of cultures and a lot of our ancestors have nothing to do with any of it. so why should we say sorry?

now dont get me wrong, i'm not rascist. i believe in valuing an individual, not a race. the whole issue is just a way of pointing the finger and finding someone to blame, when those that are at fault are long dead and buried.

please tell me what u think!
 
Have you ever seen the type of conditions that most people live in that are from the'debris' from the stolen generation.

I agree we don't need to say sorry to them anymore. We need to get down on our fucking knees and beg for forgiveness. We as the people who we are today just because we didn't go ahead and cause the disgusting standards in which they live, in which they are now treated, we are accountable for the way we view those people. Its our perceptions, its our actions in this time now which speak of the responsibility which we are liable for.

Syntech, what was the last thing you did, or anyone you know did to change how we perceive these people ? I think we are one of the most racist countries in the world. Do any of you actually work with one who is of aboriginal decent ? Of course you don't. Does anyone have an aboriginal neighbor ? Of course you don't.

We don't employ them, we don't allow them to live in our backyards, we don't allow them the dignity that they are entitled to. They are the backwash of Australian civilization today, this is purely because of the way we treated them yesterday.

We are accountable for an apology. Not one of just words, but one that shows equal respect. One that allows them the same standards of living and same opportunities that we have.

It sickens me to think that other people really think that because you didnt hunt them down 200 years ago, that we as a country are not responsible for the putrid standards of living that they now endure today as a result of what happened to generations past.

We are responsible for what happened 200 years ago today, more so than ever before.
 
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in some cases they r given more opportunity than us...for example, Abstudy. i wont close my mind and say they are treated equally and i wont say i know everything about the situation cos i dont.

it doesnt matter what race u, this country gives everyone the opportunity. its up to the individual to make their own choices.

and didnt u see the bit in my post about valuing the individual not the race? if more people took that viewpoint, maybe we wouldnt have such a problem with rascism.

and what is an apology going to achieve? i've heard stories of aboriginal communities where alcohol is illegal and they houses they are GIVEN by the government are trashed.
 
Totally agree with you BREAKaBEAT ;) I could NOT have said all that better myself :D .


I will add:-

The prime minister can't say it and many others refuse to say it to the stolen generation but I am sorry.
 
well i acknowledge what happened and i do agree that it was a horrific thing to do. but i'm not gonna lose any sleep over it.
 
syntech said:
well i acknowledge what happened and i do agree that it was a horrific thing to do. but i'm not gonna lose any sleep over it.
Click to expand...

You probably don't lose much sleep over much else. The point isnt about worrying yourself silly about the problems, but admitting that you are in much better place than they are. Maybe think about why, and that would close a questions you have on reasons why we should be saying sorry
 
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Seeing as one of my two majors here at uni is Indigenous Affairs, I think I have a pretty strong view towards it all.

We killed them, we raped them, we stole their children and emotionally/physically/sexually abused them.

We took away their culture, their sense of pride as a nation, and more than anything, we took away the EPICENTRE of their culture...the land.

This all ties in with the stolen generation, as this is one of the main contributing factors.

I think the main question at hand here is: Why do we all have to use the word "WE" when discussing what happened in the past?

Well my answer is as follows. The discrimination STILL happens today. The bureaucracy and "red tape" surrounding that of land rights and native title claims is a major impediment. And in connection with what you were saying syntech, so many children were stolen and lost their culture, that they don't have much of an army to work with.

They are still the most disadvantaged people in an advantageous society, the poorest in a rich society, the most unhealthy in a healthy society, and the most undereducated in an eductaed society.

This stems partially from the eradication and subsequent lack of indigenous culture Australia-wide.

This eradication and lack of culture stems primarily from the stolen generation (amongst other genocidal acts)

So we have to all get down on our knees, as Breakabeat said, and beg for forgiveness. I don't know where all your backgrounds are from, but mine is only 2nd generation Australian (Italy, Poland and Germany before)

But on behalf on all white people, I believe we have a fucking obligation to say sorry and make any necessary reimbursments we can (education, monetary, whatever)

That's just my view anyway.......

Peace
wHiTeBoY
 
"This country gives everyone the opportunity" -



Unless of course you currently grow up in a poor family and the 'user' pay system is becoming more wide spread.Eg's: 'University fees going up'("More funding from us the taxpayers should go to universities to help fund courses. NOT forcing students to pay more and excluding poorer students"), 'Cost of healthcare going up','etc,etc,etc.................. With the user pays system how is someone born into poor conditions able to work("or is that pay") into a better lifestyle?

Have you thought 'Abstudy' is basically admitting aboriginal's are discriminated against so they need the extra money to make up for the fact the 'white man' is less likely to hire them.

The top quote really should be:-

"This country gives everyone the opportunity if you can afford to pay for it" .
 
The reason Aboriginals have some many problems today is a direct result from the treatment white ppl have given them. And this didn't happen too many generations ago, so you can't just expect it to go away. When children are taken from their families and mistreated, this hurt and lack of self pride is passed on to future generations of Aboriginals.
The reason for Abstudy and easier University entrance etc for Aboriginals is to help them get ahead; as Whiteboy said :
They are still the most disadvantaged people in an advantageous society, the poorest in a rich society, the most unhealthy in a healthy society, and the most undereducated in an educated society.
Click to expand...
The Government should be giving them this extra hand, since they were the precursor who created these problems. Also this help will create Aboriginal role models for other Aboriginals and slowly heal the past.
 
i am also doing Aboriginal Studies at uni and i've nearly been in tears over what i'm learning about what happened and what is happening still...i'm with whiteboy

i too want to say SORRY
 
ok i'm not sure of my history exactly, but i believe i'm right in saying that the germans have never apologised to the jews for the genocide from world war 2. do you think that the german people should at least acknowledge (if not completely apologise for) the mistakes their ancestors have made?
to put another way, if your father (or other family member) killed an innocent person, would you ever feel the need to apologise to the victims' family/friends?

ok, having said that, i don't believe that john howard COULD possibly say sorry, because that would open a legal/ethical minefield, setting all kinds of fucked up precedents, and allowing free-loading "descendants" of the stolen generation, backed by greedy money-hungry lawyers to sue the government/individual people for ungodly amounts of money. this in turn would have a hugely negative impact on our economy and legal system, and would end up causing much more damage than simply not saying sorry.

so while i believe that we SHOULD say sorry for the atrocities of earlier last century, i can understand why we do not.

ps. sorry
 
villa saying 'sorry' would NOT open up a legal/ethical minefield. There does NOT have to be an admitance of guilt("or sorry in this case") for defendence to be possibly sued successfully.

Also,there would NOT be much luck in the courts when you have 'white's' administrating the law.

This lie was talked up by such as people as 'John Laws'.

Finally,the proof that saying 'sorry' would NOT cause this problem, is that the fact that a few years ago ALL state parliments passed a motion of an 'official' 'sorry' on behalf of the states.Just NO SORRY at the federal level :(. This has NOT resulted in HUGE legal cases.
 
ok i'm not sure of my history exactly, but i believe i'm right in saying that the germans have never apologised to the jews for the genocide from world war 2. do you think that the german people should at least acknowledge (if not completely apologise for) the mistakes their ancestors have made?
Click to expand...

the germans have apologised.

i entirely agree with whitboy & breakabeat.
 
The whole point of the PM apologising for the unjust practices of discrimination in the past, is not that he's personally apologising for his own direct culpability. Neither is he apologising on behalf of every individual in the nation. He would be apologising for the nation as a whole

A nation is composed of so much more than simply it's individual constituents at any given time. It's made up (in the case of Australia) of a shared history, encompased by an overarching frame of civic responsibility, to which we all belong. He could apologise for Australia, for the practices of forced removal, based on no grounds other than race, that were carried out in the name of the current system of governance to which we all subscribe.

Do any of you actually work with one who is of aboriginal decent ? Of course you don't. Does anyone have an aboriginal neighbor ? Of course you don't.
Click to expand...

We don't employ them, we don't allow them to live in our backyards, we don't allow them the dignity that they are entitled to. They are the backwash of Australian civilization today, this is purely because of the way we treated them yesterday.
Click to expand...

Look, on another point, this kind of thing really pisses me off. Your blatant stereotyping and generalising is really really patronising. To me, it's just as unproductive and pathetic as the stupid racist who thinks that all people of aboriginal descent are alchos, or somehow culturally inferior.

Reconciliation, to me, is about acknowledging the past injustices, and trying to practically rectify them. Sorry is an important step along the way, but so is the need to stop making sweeping generalisations about people based on the colour of their skin.
 
It is also worth adding that Indigenous people who served in the first and second world war did not get the priviliges that white Australians were given, like land and pensions.
Indigenous Australians have also been on Work For the Dole like programs for at least twenty years longer that the rest of "us".
So it is not like "they" have had the same opportunities.
I'm glad that bluelighters are an open minded and humanitarian bunch.
 
Groups of people don't get a bad name for no reason, i've worked with indigenous australians before, and they just ain't good workers, sorry but its the truth.

Almost all of them where fired or quit, through lack of work, not turning up, being drunk at work (really), etc.

So before u all go and say blah blah not there fault etc. work with ab's, and you'll see.

Yes i know some people are lazy, but its just that the % of ab's that are is greater then that of other race's, hell i know alot more asian people that work harder then i do....

oh, and back on topic i'm all for saying sorry, but the govt. won't because it could be used in court for personal gain, etc. Free money is not the answer, joining the rest of the population is..
 
well i have never mistreated an aborignal person...... i have never even met one, i feel bad about what happend to their ancestors, but i have dont nothing, i only emmigrated here 16 years ago..... why should me/my parents have to say sorry for stuff that didnt even happen while we lived in the country?
 
^^^^^^^

And see that's exactly what I mean

Before you can complain about this whole "sorry" debate, I think that you as a citizen of this country have an obligation to at least MEET an aboriginal person.

I mean gosh, you haven't even met one before? I am sure that they have alot to teach you. That's like an Australian going to Japan and not talking to a Japanese person: why?

Because they are the TRUE owners of this land!

Go out, meet an aboriginal person! THEY will teach you what the word "community" and "fellow mand" and "land" is all about.....you have ALOT to learn from them my friend!
 
baileylsd said:
Groups of people don't get a bad name for no reason, i've worked with indigenous australians before, and they just ain't good workers, sorry but its the truth.

Almost all of them where fired or quit, through lack of work, not turning up, being drunk at work (really), etc.

So before u all go and say blah blah not there fault etc. work with ab's, and you'll see.
Click to expand...


But it isnt their fault, thats the whole point.

You have to try and understand that we're talking about people who might have 3 or more generations of people in their family who have NEVER worked. They sometimes just dont know how to work. Non-aboriginals have grown up with a work ethic, the people you're talking about have to learn it. It's not easy. Especially when they have alcohol or drug problems as well.

.
 
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