The seemingly impossible truth about mega-Vit C & opiate wd

I guess we can see one another in one another. It is a nice feeling. Feeling less shitty now than I was an hour ago. Ain't life amazing. And all it took was 50 minutes, some music, and deciding not to make any decisions. Melancholic? Perhaps. But necessary. I could have made many worse choices, don't I know it.
Good to hear! :) Since quitting the pods three weeks ago I've been utilizing my newfound heightened sensitivity with music. If I get the right track with the right mood, it's so gorgeously euphoric.

I should add that as a tasty tip for any rattlers who might find themselves reading this. Music can give you that endorphin rush you crave.
 
SOOOOO true, I often forget how important music is. The right music especially. Right now, for me, it is funk. Lots and lots and lots of funk.
 
Ok... I've been detoxing for around 8 days... Kinda...
I've been addicted to Oxy for a few years. The last few months I've been taking 150-200mg a day, on average. Sometimes much more.
So I went 75 hours and then took 30mg, then I took another 30mg 4 days after that and another 30mg the next day (today).
I've been reading a lot about the science of addiction and withdrawal lately and came across the effect that Vitamin C has on tolerance and dependence. I've read that Vit C can prevent opiate addiction and dependence so I wanted to try an experiment. I have 3 days left in the work week and have decided to take 1 of the 30mg pills and cut into quarters. Then I would take one of the quarters at work each day just to take the edge off the depression I've been dealing with. I have vacation time all next week so I'll have 9 days off of work to do a proper detox.
Anyway, I decided to try the vitamin C thing to see if it would prevent me from withdrawal again after using for a few days straight while in active detox. So tonight, about an hour before taking the 30mg, I took 4,000 mg of chewable vitamin C. Keep in mind that last night all the 30mg did was give me slight euphoria. But tonight it was a completely different story.
About 15 min after dosing I nodded out. I woke about two hours later to my wife shaking me and slapping me in the face. She said I was unresponsive for a few minutes and I came too just before she about to call an ambulance. I was extremely disoriented and felt like I was really drunk. That was about 2 hours ago and I'm still very drowsy and nauseous.
I've only felt this way a few times when I've taken too much oxy.
I've found this article about an experiment on a government website where they took mice and tried to intentionally get them addicted to morphine while administering high levels of vitamin C and the results were very interesting. I'll post a link below.
Has anyone else had an experience similar to mine?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2852062/
 
I've found this article about an experiment on a government website where they took mice and tried to intentionally get them addicted to morphine while administering high levels of vitamin C and the results were very interesting. I'll post a link below.
Has anyone else had an experience similar to mine?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2852062/


Like I said -- it abolishes tolerance to MDXX.


Reports indicate the normal response post MDXX use (after images, framing, color saturation) are also abolished when ascorbate is co-administered before during and after -- subjective effects were not diminished

My theory is that such high doses instigate conformal changes in the receptor config, density, sensitivity, and do the same thing to the transporters

10-12 grams 10,000-12,000 mg throughout the day

Because it abolishes tolerance -- it seems to potentiate effects -- think what a regular person would feel like (regular = no oxy use) on 30 mg of oxycodone
 
All I know is that the only difference was the vitamin C. I ate normally, didn't have any other drugs to take with it, NOTHING!!!
And didn't take a massive amount; just 4g and that's the dose I normally take when I feel a cold or flu coming on to give my immune system a jump start.
I'm off to work but will post later.
Also, come Friday I have 10 days vacation so I will be taking no oxy, just vitamin C. I'll post regularly to let you know if it helps withdrawal.
 
All I know is that the only difference was the vitamin C. I ate normally, didn't have any other drugs to take with it, NOTHING!!!
And didn't take a massive amount; just 4g and that's the dose I normally take when I feel a cold or flu coming on to give my immune system a jump start.
I'm off to work but will post later.
Also, come Friday I have 10 days vacation so I will be taking no oxy, just vitamin C. I'll post regularly to let you know if it helps withdrawal.
Good luck! I'll be interested to see how well it works for you..
 
Yeah, if it was a straight choice between done and pods, I'd go with pods. I could get away with only dosing once a day with the tea and never go into withdrawal between doses

As for how much tea, that's going to take a bit of working out, because if you go too high then you'll just get a nasty addiction to the tea. Do you know what the equivalent bupe dose would be compared wirh 25mg done?
 
IV it would be about 0.8mg buprenorphine to 25mg methadone , but since you should be taking the buprenorphine sublingually and the methadone orally it isn't going to be quite that. I would think if you were going to use the buprenorphine intranasally and the methadone orally (both have very high BA) then it would be very similar. Actually in any case it would be very similar. Without a habit or tolerance to opioids those a both very dangerous doses though.

I'm looking for solutions now. I am on methadone and I have to go to Korea in 4 months so I have to get off by then. I am on 25mg. I have had a very hard time tapering... I was stuck on 27 mg for 1.5 years and couldn't get used to it... woke up in wd every morning. Finally I tried some Kratom and it knocked something loose and allowed me to go down to 25 and adjust. Anyways, I was thinking about transitioning to a short term opiate so that I could go down quicker. For instance, the poppy tea that you are having a hard time with.... however, were you saying that it is actually long term as well? If that doesn't work I may potentially try the Vitamin C and Lope.

Your best bit is by using buprenorphine to transition off the methadone, simply because the buprenorphine has such a long half life. You don't need much, even 2mg a day with a 25mg methadone habit would make a big difference, but it sounds like you'd need a few of those doses a day for a week or two to really be fully functional and feeling okay.

Using a shorter acting opioid like codeine or PPT/PST would still be very helpful if you can't get a more appropriate opioid like buprenorphine. Tramadol and codeine (dihyrocodeine if you can find it) are probably the best short acting opioids to make the transition.
 
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So maybe you can explain more but I don't understand why I would transition to Bupe (I"m guessing Subutex) because that is a long acting opiate like methadone and that is the problem. It takes too long to taper down and withdraw. Could you explain why it would be better than methadone? Also I have heard a lot of nightmare stories about the Bupe withdrawals being worse than methadone. So I would like to get a short acting opiate so that I can do this quicker because I don't have much time. Do you know if the poppy tea is long like methadone or short like Heroin because it seems like he was saying long which sounded wrong to me? I would love to try Tramadol and codeine for this, but I would have no idea how to get a prescription.
 
PPT/PST are basically codeine and morphine, mostly codeine I believe, so they don't have as long a half life as methadone or buprenorphine. There is a lot more in PPT/PST than just those two compounds, but those are the most important for our purposes. Using buprenorphine to transition off methadone works really well, because you're only using it for 2-8 weeks, and using a short taper off that makes the transition really easy. Of course tapering down as low as possible will make using whatever else you can to get off it a lot easier.

Because methadone is long acting, all that means is it has a longer half life and the withdrawal will be prolonged than compared to something shorter acting like codeine, morphine or heroin. But if tapered properly to a mangabey low dose (which you do not necessarily seem to have the luxury of doing in this situation) the withdrawal off longer acting opioids is less intense than short acting ones, and longer acting opioids are easier to taper down to smaller doses than shorter acting ones (there are a number of reasons for this, but basically it is that there is less need to redose with longer acting opioids).

If you've been around where you are at now for over a year, it is going to take more than just two weeks to use another opioid, whatever the nature, to taper as comfortably as you could. So what I am trying to say is that, given your situation, you could end up being fairly uncomfortable during when you jump off methadone onto another opioid, and especially when you jump off all opioids.

Whatever type of opioid you use to ease the early acute withdrawal of methadone, which isn't such a bad idea at all IMO (at the end of the day it doesn't matter what it is, although you ideally would want to use less habit forming ones like tramadol, codeine or buprenorpine), the idea is not to take it long enough to create a new dependency on the opioid you use to ease the methadone withdrawal.

If you use a longer acting opioid like buprenorphine that you are not now dependent on to make the transition off all opioids, it will ease the transition when you stop taking the replacement long acting opioid (buprenorphine) because it will stay in your system longer. Because you haven't developed a dependency on it yet means that your body will continue metabolizing it in very small amounts for longer period of time after your stop taking it than shorter acting opioids.

I high recommend stocking up on comfort meds like kratom, gabapentin, baclofen, clonidine and a short corse of a longer acting benzo like clonazepam or diazepam to bring with you on your trip. That will make it a lot easier when you stop taking whatever opioid you choose to jump off methadone with, because when you stop taking the replacement opioid, your body will still be going through methadone withdrawal. You will still need some for of support if you want to remain comfortable enough, in my opinion, to be fully functional.

If you have to power through the prolonged methadone withdrawal without anything useful to supplement the lingering withdrawal, such as inmates in prisons often are left with having to do, you can totally do it. It will be much more of a challenge, but it is still doable.

Good luck! Sorry for the long ass post. I had a bit of a hard time answering your question for some reason.

EDIT: Ah I forgot you have two months before you trip! This is good news! I'd highly suggest switching to buprenoprine for 2-8 weeks, or better yet taper down the methadone a bit further. If you don't feel like tapering the methadone anymore is going to work, you can always switch to another opioid.

Maybe try tapering more for a month on the methadone then switch to whatever replacement opioid you want to use for the last month before your trip. You can use the aforementioned comfort meds to easy the end of your taper on methadone. IMO it would probably be significantly easier to jump off of <20mg than over.
 
Thanks for all the info, thats great. So I actually have 4 months until the trip. My goal is to not have any acute symptoms on the trip. I figure if I can transition to a short term opiate for 1 month then taper for 2 months off the short term then jump off for 1 month I might be ok. Problem is, what short term opiate and where to get it. As far as the comfort meds goes, I know you're not supposed to talk about this, but could you point me slightly in any direction or tell me the type of doctor to go to or anything or point me to any forum or anything that could help? Also to the original poster of this thread, why didn't you taper down on the tea before jumping off? Was it because you were just sick of it etc. or because the potency is always so shifty that it would be too inaccurate?
 
I think he didn't taper more than he might have wanted to because his store stopped selling the seeds he was making tea from.

If you live in the US you options are limited pretty much to the black market for shorter acting opioids. With restrictions (so very slightly) opening up on buprenorphine prescribers you might find a doctor from SAMSHA's list of buprenorphine prescribers. I would try and get a psychiatrist on board who is understanding to get you your comfort meds and refer you to a doctor licensed to prescribe buprenorphine. We don't specifically source drugs on this site, so I can't help you get your drugs per se. Poppy seeds are legal though ;)

Getting a doctor on board with this process is really useful so you can get proper prescription medicine for while you're taper AND that you can take with you to Korea (great country to travel to BTW - you going for school work or fun?). Gabapentin and clonidine along with a benzo like diazepam or clonazepam (especially the gabapentin and clonidine) are widely prescribed for the treatment of opioid (and specifically methadone) withdrawal. You will really want to try to get some meds to take with you on your trip. Start taking them before you leave so you know how they work with you is a good idea too.
 
The more tools you have at your disposal, the better off you'll be. I just don't have any experience with the vitamin C thing, so I don't feel right commenting. But the more tools, the better.

Wow, sounds like you'll be under a lot of pressure when you are on your trip! Nothing is more difficult than having to hide a habit or treatment, so I really sympathize. Kicking while hiding it from those you love is every bit as hard, if not more so. So making sure you have as many resources at your disposal on your trip is a must!
 
I think he didn't taper more than he might have wanted to because his store stopped selling the seeds he was making tea from. .
Something like that. My local store that sold great seeds had stopped stocking them, but that wasn't the main reason. It was far more complicated than that, but no need to go into all that here. I basically had no choice but to quit my 1kg/day habit overnight, I just had to go further afield to get good seeds for the week before I knew I had to quit. Opium poppies grow all over the place over here at this time of year, a quick forage round the local park and a few gardens and there's no need to get the seeds! :D

Apparently this vit C thing works with any opiate. I really would give it a try, the worst that'll happen if it don't work is that you'll end up with some leftover vit C and go back on the maintenance opiates.
 
Was vitamin C the only thing you did different this time from other times you went through withdrawal? This would help make a case of whether the C made a difference or not.
 
Yeah, all the other times I had the usual comfort meds to fall back on (benzos, Kratom etc). This time there was no chance of getting hold of anything like that, so I did some reading and stuck with just the vit C and lope.
 
Sorry I haven't posted an update. My original plan was to stop on Friday but I ended up using until Tuesday night. I'm now about 41 hours clean. I've been taking vitamin C; 2g when I wake and 1g periodically throughout the day. I have noticed a significant difference since my last detox. I still get RLS but mostly at night. I was up most of last night because of it until I took .5mg of Xanax and I was able to sleep for 3-4 hours. The main difference I noticed is I'm not getting the hot/cold flashes or cold sweats and my anxiety isn't nearly as bad. Detox is slightly different for everyone. For example, a lot of people say that day 3 and 4 are the worst but for me, it's between the 24-48hr Mark; probably due to my body metabolizing the drug faster than others. But today, I feel ok. Not great, but not as bad as last time.
I'm able to go to the gym; which helps tremendously for me mentally.
I don't know if the vitamin C will work for everyone but it's definitely helped me. I would encourage everyone to give it a shot. It's very cheap btw. I got large bottle of 200 chewable tablets with 500mg of Vitamin C for under 10 bucks at a large chain store (not sure if I'm allowed to name the store but it starts with a W and is the largest chain store in the world).
I'll post another update in a day or two.
 
That's exactly what I found doing this whole vit C thing. To say it eliminates wd entirely would be a misnomer, but it did mean that I spent absolutely zero time lying around feeling sorry for myself. By day 2 I was up and watching movies and stuff round the house, I was back at work by day 3. Completely different from every wd before it (of which there were at least 10) where I'd barely be able to move the first 4 days.
 
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