Recovery The path of least resistance

[VanOccupanther]

Just going to put down some thoughts here as much as a cathartic exercise as anything else (although words of support are welcome!).
I’ve just been struggling with the usual struggles. I’m on a maintenance withdrawal using bupe and I’m down to 2mg from 8mg. It’s been a long journey (3 years nearly) although the tapering has all been in the last year. About 4 months ago I decided I was sick to death of bupe and all drugs in general and I decided to go cold turkey from 4mg, needless to say I failed having underestimated how bad it would be, in my mind I was a w/d expert and bupe was no problem! I lasted a week, but I needed to get back to work so I had to get back on the bupe to function. This experience did solidify my motivation to get off ASAP. So I’ve been tapering since then, but amazingly despite my unwavering conviction to get away from all drugs, since I’ve been below 4mg bupe I’ve started messing around with a bit of dhc and using benzos every day (to take the edge off! - bollocks). Im now facing a double taper, I've shifted from Valium to Xanax because of it’s shorter half life and I’ve got a piss test on the horizon! The worrying thing I’ve learnt, or maybe I’ve known all along, is just how one day I can be completely committed to recovery (I’m seeing a psychiatrist, doing mindfulness exercises etc) and then the next day I can be as reckless as I ever was! I’ve settled back on my bupe taper (hopefully fully commuted again, certainly I feel that way today) and I’m getting off the Xanax as quickly as possible.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

you have to have a "how I am going to not relapse" plan when you quit bupe because of the prolonged, very painful withdrawal. I noticed acute phase was about 3 months long, about a year of PAWS and certain effects took longer to go away (my GI tract may never be the same again, who cares right).

 

[VanOccupanther]

you have to have a "how I am going to not relapse" plan when you quit bupe because of the prolonged, very painful withdrawal. I noticed acute phase was about 3 months long, about a year of PAWS and certain effects took longer to go away (my GI tract may never be the same again, who cares right).

Thanks for the reply man,
If I may, it seems like this is something you’ve gone through yourself, do you have any tips for the not relapsing plan? I’m in a bit of a bind because I can’t take any significant time off of work and three months of acute w/d’s Sounds very tricky indeed!

 

[Captain.Heroin]

a relationship
drugs you can handle (marijuana, or coffee or like whatever mild thing you can handle)
focusing on your dreams/passions, figure out what you really want out of life
think about philosophical stuff because it'll help you figure out how you got here and how to get out easily

 

[VanOccupanther]

a relationship
drugs you can handle (marijuana, or coffee or like whatever mild thing you can handle)
focusing on your dreams/passions, figure out what you really want out of life
think about philosophical stuff because it'll help you figure out how you got here and how to get out easily

Thank you.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

have you thought about why you use?

i know it's mostly due to mental health disorders/lack of coping mechanisms in the real world, not having the right relationship I want, and such.

Having a rewarding relationship really helped me get off bupe/heroin for good but life isn't all smiles and sunshine after, it takes like, a lot of hard work. And it kind of sucks and I see why people give up on other human beings and opt for a relapse because of my last failed relationship (lol) but don't! You're worth it.

Oh I think calories hit brain and sleep is inevitable... oh thank you... thank you ...

 

[VanOccupanther]

have you thought about why you use?

i know it's mostly due to mental health disorders/lack of coping mechanisms in the real world, not having the right relationship I want, and such.

Having a rewarding relationship really helped me get off bupe/heroin for good but life isn't all smiles and sunshine after, it takes like, a lot of hard work. And it kind of sucks and I see why people give up on other human beings and opt for a relapse because of my last failed relationship (lol) but don't! You're worth it.

Oh I think calories hit brain and sleep is inevitable... oh thank you... thank you ...

Yeah I can honestly say no issues on the relationship front for real, I’m in a happy and loving marriage.

And when it comes to the question of why do I use, that’s the real big question! Been trying to get to the bottom of it with my key worker and the psychiatrist and we may be making some progress. Man I’ve always got high! The first time I did I thought I’d found the answer I’d always been looking for and for a good 15 years thought on some subconscious level everyone must be doing it!!
You mentioned philosophy and I guess a philosophical answer may be that I don’t believe in anything! But I know how to take away all the fear, pain and confusion.
On a more physical level I’ve got arthritis in my spine that got the whole harder opiate drug thing started!

 

[Captain.Heroin]

like what do you think the meaning of life is

i haven't found it, and cannot say what it is but i reject the idea life has "no meaning" (absurdism) whereas life having no meaning philosophically is nihilism.

Then there's other schools of thought.

Give it a thought it'll really enrich your life to kinda figure out why you're here really. If you can't figure it out, don't fret I can't either LOL

 

[Jabberwocky]

my not relapsing plan was to fill every second of every day for 3 months when i got out of rehab. paid work, NA, courses at the drugs services, therapy, meditation courses, gym, socialising. literally not having any time to go and score created a mental barrier of having to break my plans if i thought about scoring. i did almost everything suggested to me by recovering addicts with longer time in than me at that point cos i figured they knew something i didn't, and had something i wanted.

i've always got high too, until i got clean at 32. over 20 years drug taking career. thought it was just something i did. i thought it was helping, and in some massive ways it really was helping, bu mostly it just ended up making my life so miserable that i couldn't imagine ever having a life actually worth living. until you have all psychoactive substances out of your body, you may not be able to work out what using is doing for you. i didn't find out i have severe ptsd til i got clean cos i was masking it so well.

good luck with everything.

 

[VanOccupanther]

Yeah man I’m gonna keep as busy as possible and try and focus on my interests and try and do social non drug related stuff! I’m working on some mindfulness stuff that I think is helping. Cheers for the advice dudes.

 

[VanOccupanther]

you have to have a "how I am going to not relapse" plan when you quit bupe because of the prolonged, very painful withdrawal. I noticed acute phase was about 3 months long, about a year of PAWS and certain effects took longer to go away (my GI tract may never be the same again, who cares right).

When you say acute phase was three months long, had you tapered all the way down to 0.4mg before you stopped?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

yes twice

once the acute lasted much longer and then i did another final withdrawal after a bupe relapse and that one was much easier

the first one was 7 months of pure hell before I was gleefully injecting bupe.

the last wd I had, tapering was harder. IT ONLY GETS HARDER beyond a certain point IT IS PURE HELL IT SUCKS. I am sorry for anyone who's in this

 

[Rio Fantastic]

Just to chime in here, not everyone has the same negative experience of bupe withdrawal. Though certainly some people have a real hard time coming off of it so it's handy to prepare yourself for that, bear in mind that many people like myself find it really easy to come off. I've quit bupe three times, and each time I tapered down from 8mg to 0.2mg over the course of a couple of months, staying at 0.2 for at least a week or two before jumping off, and my only symptoms were agitation, slight discomfort and mild insomnia. The rehab I was at wouldn't prescribe any comfort meds for bupe withdrawal but would taper you down very low over the course of your first 2-4 weeks so I got to see many people experience bupe withdrawal, and I'd say the majority took to it pretty well like I did and though there were a few that had difficult experiences the majority didn't have the agonizing months-long withdrawal. It seemed that those who were on methadone for a long time before switching to bupe then rapidly reducing over 2 weeks had the hardest time of it whereas people like me who's DOC was just H who then swapped to bupe before reducing/jumping seemed to have it much easier.

Regardless, it's sensible to hope for the best but plan for the worst. 0.4mg may be convenient, but try and taper down to 0.1 - use volumetric dosing if the pills can't be broken evenly. It's also generally a bad idea to try and come off two substances at once - withdrawing from benzos is a long, drawn-out an uncomfortable process in itself, trying to throw that on top of bupe withdrawal simultaneously is at best a recipe for an extremely unpleasant time and at worst a guaranteed relapse. Can't you focus on the bupe then quit the benzos when you're in a better place?

 

[VanOccupanther]

Just to chime in here, not everyone has the same negative experience of bupe withdrawal. Though certainly some people have a real hard time coming off of it so it's handy to prepare yourself for that, bear in mind that many people like myself find it really easy to come off. I've quit bupe three times, and each time I tapered down from 8mg to 0.2mg over the course of a couple of months, staying at 0.2 for at least a week or two before jumping off, and my only symptoms were agitation, slight discomfort and mild insomnia. The rehab I was at wouldn't prescribe any comfort meds for bupe withdrawal but would taper you down very low over the course of your first 2-4 weeks so I got to see many people experience bupe withdrawal, and I'd say the majority took to it pretty well like I did and though there were a few that had difficult experiences the majority didn't have the agonizing months-long withdrawal. It seemed that those who were on methadone for a long time before switching to bupe then rapidly reducing over 2 weeks had the hardest time of it whereas people like me who's DOC was just H who then swapped to bupe before reducing/jumping seemed to have it much easier.

Regardless, it's sensible to hope for the best but plan for the worst. 0.4mg may be convenient, but try and taper down to 0.1 - use volumetric dosing if the pills can't be broken evenly. It's also generally a bad idea to try and come off two substances at once - withdrawing from benzos is a long, drawn-out an uncomfortable process in itself, trying to throw that on top of bupe withdrawal simultaneously is at best a recipe for an extremely unpleasant time and at worst a guaranteed relapse. Can't you focus on the bupe then quit the benzos when you're in a better place?

Thanks for this message, I’ve been been super down about the whole thing and kicking myself about not doing enough research before I got on to bupe (although if I’m completely honest I don’t think it would have changed anything as I was in a bad way back then). The good news is I have gotten myself down to 1mg Xanax. Emotionally I’ve been struggling, but no physical issues, certainly nothing to keep me off work. Hopefully I should pass my test next week.
I’ve been speaking to a lot of people in the past couple of weeks who have been through this and I agree with you I’m gonna be prepared for the worst, but most people have said if I spend a couple of weeks chipping off my 0.4mg bupe tab I can jump off at a much lower dose and the clinic says it’ll help me out with something for sleep and possibly bad guts for a few weeks.
Anyway thanks again, I’m going down to 1.6mg bupe next week and steadily on from there. I will let you know how I get on.