☛ Official ☚ The Oneirogens Megathread: Herbs and Chems for Dreaming

[HOOH]

If you really are "anti-plants" for whatever reason.. you may like to use a nicotine patch before sleeping, that's well known to cause vivid dreams.
I didn't try it but it has numerous reports.

Well I am not necessary anti-plant, I am just not interested in "herbal supplements", I don't think most of them have any real kick to them at all. If there's a clear chemical that's driving the action (like with psychedelic plants), that's fine, if there's just a bunch of "anti-inflammatory" terpenes and whatever else, like in most plants designated for sleep enhancement, then I just can't really get too hyped up about that.

 

[Neuroborean]

Well I am not necessary anti-plant, I am just not interested in "herbal supplements", I don't think most of them have any real kick to them at all. If there's a clear chemical that's driving the action (like with psychedelic plants), that's fine, if there's just a bunch of "anti-inflammatory" terpenes and whatever else, like in most plants designated for sleep enhancement, then I just can't really get too hyped up about that.

yeah, I get that..
the thing with plants is that you need the proper source, both for supplements and for the plants themselves... foraging in its habitat and doing tinctures is usually the best way (herbalist way) but it's just too time consuming for most people. Finding a good source is key, but eventually there's all the same: chemicals.
Most plant I use are pretty potent, some very potent (kava-kava, kratom, yohimbe,...) some others are subtle but undeniably effective as skullcap, jatamansi, tongkat ali, mucuna...
There's incredibly powerful plants for sleeping like sarpagandha, but this one has side effects that are similar to those of anti-psychotics, so better not to use that one.. I've heard of Ghost Pipe being a good nervine for example, and also a trip-killer.

I'll use the nicotine patch whenever possible and report back here.

 

[Neuroborean]

Oh,
I wanted to keep writing on this thread but was too busy... but well, now I have a bit more time..
other stuff that worked or didn't worked for dreams and are supposedly oneirogens..:

Entada Rheedii (African dream seed): I still didn't try with the natural pulp of the seed... i have a couple seeds sitting there in some box but they are so hard to break, or so I've read, so used the resin (x100) first. Total failure, never had any change at all with that resin. It's flavour is not that horrible when mixed with warm water/tea, but it's not delightful either... I'll try with the pulp sometime but it's one of these oneirogens that doesn't seem to work for a lot of people (perhaps it has some specific preparation that we don't know really).

Tagetes Lucida (Pericón/yerbanís): this plant it's not so well known, but it was traditionally used as a medicine in Mexico. It has a very very nice smell like anise and the taste is pretty nice for an evening/night tea. It has mild relaxant effects pretty similar to those of chamomille but stronger. It's a pretty interesting plant that I would like to grow. I cannot say for sure if it changed my dreams but my sleep was more sound and restful so I would surely bet on it to be helpful. I'll continue use this plant and report (I only had a little sample).

Datura(s): only tried with D. Stramonium and D. Metel. It seems that Stramonium could be a bit stronger, but not by far. It seems to me that metel is the one of the weakest Daturas. You probably know already... but as a mod I should pinpoint that Daturas and delirogens (most tropane alkaloids that affect choline) are dodgy stuff that should not be used if you don't know what are you doing. 4-10 seeds could help get relaxed, in a short of dreamy state and supposedly they help to have vivid dreams. I can attest to the fact that they could help relaxing and sleeping, but never had luck with the dream part. A lot of people have claimed that they work, perhpas I need more experience.

Harmaline (harmala alkaloids): loads of people claiming strong oneirogenic activity, I only used twice with no effects but it's one of those plants and things that I still have strong "faith" in. Mechanism would be MAOI but if it's Peganum Harmala seeds there could be more stuff .

Benzo REM Rebound: This.. in an interesting one... In my experience if take hypnotic benzos, like lormetazepam, a couple things happen, I don't remember shit from the first 4-5 hours of sleep, like I just didn't exist or something like that. Total knockout. But, after that my sleep becomes fluffy, weak and odd and... after that, if I wake up and stay up for a while (1-1.5 hours) and then I come back to bed... then very often I have super vivid, crazy and lucid dreams. It doesn't work everytime, but it seems that it's not very different from 5-htp REM rebound, just more "Gabaergic" if that makes sense.

Calliandra Angustifolia (Bobinsana): like Tagetes Lucida, this plant is not very well known and it has quite a lot of interesting potentials as an antidepressant for example. The tribes that use this say that once you diet (create a relationship with the plant by taking it often) Bobinsana, the plant induces several phases in your body and the Siren Bobinsana (who is an old women teacher) shows herself in your dreams and talks to you, teaching you about deep stuff...
It seems that this happen when you take it often for more than a month... but well: I've used it once, with a strong tea, done for more than an hour, it's clearly psychoactive, in mild but very satisfying way, MAOI like. I had interesting dreams that night, but couldn't remember much to be honest. It's still in my "to-do" list to do a diet with it, but it's way too expensive per dose to do it nowadays.

Rhododendron Adamsii (white wings): there's actually something about this plant, most times I've used during the night I had super interesting dreams on which I was more or less inmortal or I had super powers. It's used by several tribes in Mongolia and very hardy and rustic places, on which they use it as an energizer. Makes total sense to me. I think I'm one of the first persons to report any oneirogenic activity of this plant.

Mukanya Kude: only used it once but had very special dreams that seemed very "distant" and magical, like they had a layer of magic and warm. Good shit, but it could have been "placebo" or just coincidence.

Ilex Guayusa: some reports of oneirogenic activity, in fact it's used in that way by the Ecuadorian tribes where's native.. but well, I didn't find anything noticeable yet.

Calamus: high doses close to bed time seem to bring some extra vividness and a certain control in dreams, but not lucidity.

 

[Neuroborean]

Forgot a very famous one.....:
Blue Lotus:
let's stop for a while on this because it's complex stuff...
there's actually no blue "lotus" but blue water lilly: Nymphaea Nouchali var. Ceruleae or Nymphae Ceruleae (there's some confusion on this last species/subespecies discussion...)
There's Sacred Lotus, which is a real Lotus and it's Scientific name is: Nelumbo Nucifera. Both plants have the same basic ingredients/actives: nuciferine and aporphine, some quinoline alkaloids that are present in different ratios in both plants.
In my opinion the discussion on which plant is better/worse, more potent and even in details about it's psychoactive differences are quite vain, a waste of time.
I think there's some basic stuff: it's difficult to find really potent and fresh Nymphaea Ceruleae, but it may be not that difficult to find good quality Nelumbo stamens, but again, that may be just my experience.

In my case I've tried a lof of stuff:
-"Allegedly" "Blue lotus extract: mild to moderate effects while awake, pleasant. 0 effects sleeping.
-"Allegedly" "Blue lotus resin: even milder effects (bad vendor'??) when smoked or in tea.,
- Blue lotus petals/flowers tea: placebo effects so boring I got angry (bad vendor...???)
- Nelumbo stamens tea: barely no effects awake, none dreaming.
- Nelumbo resin/extract: very nice effects awake, smooth and mild but interesting when smoked, milder when on tea or sublingual, cannot tell for sure if there was increased vividness.
-Nelumbo stamens + Blue lotus flowers WINE: this is the recipe, whatever else it's just boring, dull, weak, and pretty non-interesting enough to repeat the experience. But man, the wine it's the real shit. You need big amounts of this shit, but it's the only way to make it work, at least if you don't have a proper high quality material...
I did with more than 15 grams of flowers and around the same amount of Nelumbo Stamens. Mason jar full of red wine and that shit, moving/shaking each day (or 3 days, sometimes, to be honest) and waiting for more than a month (next time I'll wait only 3 weeks). The flavour was pretty shitty, but not that much to be undrinkable or nasty.
It brought real changes in dreams, they got some very strange mystic undertone, with some kind of symbolic development, full of strange feelings of subconscious crap arising to surface and some strange "water filter" like I was into a sci-fi pond like the water lillies... yeah man, that wine really worked the 2 times I tried it.

 

[Dreamflyer]

Awesome thread!!!

I'll have to read all the way through it when I get the time.

Dreamflyer

 

[Dreamflyer]

As you can tell by my screen name, I've been an oneironaut for as long as I can remember. I've been writing down my dreams since I was about 13, and I'm in my 50's now. Luckily I've always had very vivid, memorable and often lucid dreams, because the supplements don't do much for me.

Calea Zacatachichi - I had one crazy dream the very first night about an animated purple cow, but I tried it for another month and nothing memorable happened.

5-HTP - Gave me horrible nausea upon waking up. I tried it twice and just couldn't tolerate it.

L-Tryptophan - My stomach tolerates this fine, but no interesting dreams to speak of.

Melatonin - Actually keeps me awake and gives me anxiety.

Huperzine-A, Alpha-GPC, Choline, etc. - Expensive and didn't do anything.

Bacopa Monnieri - Same as above. (NOTE: Do *not* snort it. I tried it once as an experiment, and it literally felt as though I stuck a long dagger up my nose and out the back of my head! This is coming from someone who has insufflated some pretty strange things over the years as well.)

Valerian Root - Helps relax me a bit but no exceptional dreams.

L-Theanine - Same as above.

Kratom - Keeps me relaxed but awake, even the mellow strains like Red Vein Bali.

Kava Root - Unbearable nausea.

Alcohol and Weed - Kills my REM sleep altogether.

There are only two substances that ever gave me really epic dreams:

1) The antidepressant Remeron (Mirtazapine) when I first went on it, but that effect disappeared quickly.
2) Nicotine Patches, but they make it hard to fall asleep from the stimulation.
Furthermore, I don't recommend using strong chemicals just for dreaming purposes.

Oh yeah, and withdrawal dreams (opioids, benzos, alcohol) are insane when I can finally sleep. But again, it's not worth getting addicted to a life-ruining drug just for a couple of cool dreams.

Sweet Dreams!!!
Dreamflyer

 

[Neuroborean]

As you can tell by my screen name, I've been an oneironaut for as long as I can remember. I've been writing down my dreams since I was about 13, and I'm in my 50's now. Luckily I've always had very vivid, memorable and often lucid dreams, because the supplements don't do much for me.

Calea Zacatachichi - I had one crazy dream the very first night about an animated purple cow, but I tried it for another month and nothing memorable happened.

5-HTP - Gave me horrible nausea upon waking up. I tried it twice and just couldn't tolerate it.

L-Tryptophan - My stomach tolerates this fine, but no interesting dreams to speak of.

Melatonin - Actually keeps me awake and gives me anxiety.

Huperzine-A, Alpha-GPC, Choline, etc. - Expensive and didn't do anything.

Bacopa Monnieri - Same as above. (NOTE: Do *not* snort it. I tried it once as an experiment, and it literally felt as though I stuck a long dagger up my nose and out the back of my head! This is coming from someone who has insufflated some pretty strange things over the years as well.)

Valerian Root - Helps relax me a bit but no exceptional dreams.

L-Theanine - Same as above.

Kratom - Keeps me relaxed but awake, even the mellow strains like Red Vein Bali.

Kava Root - Unbearable nausea.

Alcohol and Weed - Kills my REM sleep altogether.

There are only two substances that ever gave me really epic dreams:

1) The antidepressant Remeron (Mirtazapine) when I first went on it, but that effect disappeared quickly.
2) Nicotine Patches, but they make it hard to fall asleep from the stimulation.
Furthermore, I don't recommend using strong chemicals just for dreaming purposes.

Oh yeah, and withdrawal dreams (opioids, benzos, alcohol) are insane when I can finally sleep. But again, it's not worth getting addicted to a life-ruining drug just for a couple of cool dreams.

Sweet Dreams!!!
Dreamflyer

Hi man, didn't notice that you had written!! happy to see u in this thread...!
yep, I still need to try nicotine patches, I want to do an ethanol extraction of betel nut and I'm pretty sure it would be interesting to create some similar mechanism for the extract as it acts in similar receptors (but the muscarinic!!) as nicotine... the effect of betel nut is euphoric and dreamy, much more cool than nicotine itself.
For me the acetylcholine "increasers" and acetylcholine reuptake inhibitors work and are more or less noticeable BUT, they are not reliable, I'm talking about Huperzine A specifically, but as I remember it happens with most of them (Galantamine seems to be super potent and reliable but not easily obtainable in EU).

I only experienced kratom withdrawal dreams and yep, they are strong as fuck. I would also consider the first days of dreaming after smoking marihuana "withdrawal dreams" as I feel cannabis withdrawal quite intensely compared to others...

it's sad that you don't tolerate 5-htp well, it really does something, but it's neither super reliable.

 

[Dreamflyer]

Hi man, didn't notice that you had written!! happy to see u in this thread...!
yep, I still need to try nicotine patches, I want to do an ethanol extraction of betel nut and I'm pretty sure it would be interesting to create some similar mechanism for the extract as it acts in similar receptors (but the muscarinic!!) as nicotine... the effect of betel nut is euphoric and dreamy, much more cool than nicotine itself.
For me the acetylcholine "increasers" and acetylcholine reuptake inhibitors work and are more or less noticeable BUT, they are not reliable, I'm talking about Huperzine A specifically, but as I remember it happens with most of them (Galantamine seems to be super potent and reliable but not easily obtainable in EU).

I only experienced kratom withdrawal dreams and yep, they are strong as fuck. I would also consider the first days of dreaming after smoking marihuana "withdrawal dreams" as I feel cannabis withdrawal quite intensely compared to others...

it's sad that you don't tolerate 5-htp well, it really does something, but it's neither super reliable.

Hey, nice to hear from you!

My "Dream Journal" thread is at the very top of the LAVA forum. I created it, but it's under "Jabberwocky" because I was paranoid about a possible security breach at the time. Shortly afterwords I resumed my Dreamflyer persona, and I've been posting my dreams on there for about 6 years now. A bunch of other members have also contributed their own dreams. You'll have to check it out.

 

[Neuroborean]

yeah man, I tend to write there too, I've did more than 3 times in fact

 

[Dreamflyer]

yeah man, I tend to write there too, I've did more than 3 times in fact

Oh cool, I didn't realize that.

 

[Neuroborean]

created it, but it's under "Jabberwocky"

So, give me a break,
you're Jabberwocky then?? haha
funny thing! you're one of the reasons I got into bluelight, I loved the Frumious Bandersnatch stuff, the image and the general tone of your (?) messages

 

[Dreamflyer]

So, give me a break,
you're Jabberwocky then?? haha
funny thing! you're one of the reasons I got into bluelight, I loved the Frumious Bandersnatch stuff, the image and the general tone of your (?) messages

There are a lot of "Jabberwockys" here. It's for anyone who wants to keep their posts alive but do it anonymously.

If it's not signed "Dreamflyer" then it's not me.

 

[Neuroborean]

had no idea!

 

[arrall]

Anyone tried Sweet Gale / Myrica gale?

 

[Neuroborean]

Anyone tried Sweet Gale / Myrica gale?

I didn't

I just know that this herb was used in old beer recipes, those called "Gruit", among other herbs...
copying from Wikipedia, "Gruit" Page:
Gruit is a combination of herbs, commonly including:
""

• Common heather (Calluna vulgaris).
• Ground ivy (Glechoma hederacea)
• Horehound (Marrubium vulgare)
• Mugwort (Artemisia vulgaris)
• Sweet gale (Myrica gale)
• Yarrow (Achillea millefolium)

Gruit recipes varied somewhat; each gruit producer included different herbs to produce unique flavors and effects. Other adjunct herbs include juniper berries, ginger, caraway seed, aniseed, nutmeg, cinnamon, mint, and occasionally hops in variable proportions (although gruit today is often sought out specifically for its lack of hops)""

Does it have some dream-changing/inducing qualities??

 

[notrandomusername]

Benzo REM Rebound: This.. in an interesting one... In my experience if take hypnotic benzos, like lormetazepam, a couple things happen, I don't remember shit from the first 4-5 hours of sleep, like I just didn't exist or something like that. Total knockout. But, after that my sleep becomes fluffy, weak and odd and... after that, if I wake up and stay up for a while (1-1.5 hours) and then I come back to bed... then very often I have super vivid, crazy and lucid dreams. It doesn't work everytime, but it seems that it's not very different from 5-htp REM rebound, just more "Gabaergic" if that makes sense.

I get something like that too. Except I don't do the 'wake up and stay up for a while' part. It's more like the rem sleep gets pushed towards the morning.

Also can happen with alcohol.

 

[Neuroborean]

I wanted to talk about something in this thread, that I've been thinking and experiencing (testing and observing, we may say) for years, but specially the last 3, when I become more "oneirogen" and dream-trip involved:

Dreams and Moon phases
​

Yeah, just saying, I won't do a big list or anything but I think it's a pretty important stuff that, if true, would be affecting manking for millenia.
My experience tells me that I have much more dreams (at least I remember more of them and they are more vivid) when the moon is waning or it's close to the new moon. The opposite happens when the moon is crescent specially the last days before full moon (3-5 days before).
Those days where's close to new moon it's very easy for me to sleep, my sleep becomes more solid and I have much more likelyness to lucid dream. One may think that it's because of the deep sleep, better sleep quality better likelyness to be well rested and have solid REM phases. But that's not exactly the case I guess because I tend to wake up because of the intensity of the dreams, a think that doesn't happen when I sleep soundly when it's close to full moon (for example when using kratom).
During new moon days (5-7 before and 3-5 after) the likelyness of having crazy dreams is much bigger to the point that I know that even if I don't use any oneirogen I will dream, some way or another and if I use some oneirogen the likelyness of having a lucid dream is more than 55%.
This is important to me, because it makes me think about a lot of stuff of how the moon is some kind of electromagnetic transistor that can affect our subconscious or perhaps even "radiotransmiting" some kind of akashic records or who knows what.
It's also important to me because I save money on oneirogens, not using them when the full moon is approaching...

I get something like that too. Except I don't do the 'wake up and stay up for a while' part. It's more like the rem sleep gets pushed towards the morning.

Also can happen with alcohol.

Yeah, the thing is that it happens pretty potently with strong gabaergics. the curious thing is that it feels different than other REM rebounds like 5-htp REM rebound. It's like it affects the sleep architecture differently and so do dreams.
I said that staying awake because I normally do it on purpose when I just wake up, whenever I can, to have more likelyness of lucid dreaming, not because it just happens on its own.

 

[sekio]

Calea Zacatachichi

Bought some once. Attempted to take it. Holy shit was it ever bitter and repulsive.
I wonder if an ethanol extraction would yield some material that would be easier to take.

I have read that etoxadrol / dexoxadrol, besides being cool novel dissociatives, can cause crazy dreams (and were apparently discontinued due to causing nightmares occasionally):

Etoxadrol produces a wide variety of dreams, ranging from pleasant to frightening or aversive. Approximately half of patients given etoxadrol report pleasant dreams, 25% report unpleasant dreams, and the remaining 25% experience no dreams at all. Such dreams were frequently described as “floating,” “puffy” or “out of this world." Dreams and hallucinations may persist for as long as 18 to 24 hours.

I have always wanted to try it but alas, never found a source... would be a very interesting RC though.