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The occult?

Interesting post Termino. Very much at the first baby steps along the road kinda stage as far as the O.T.O. / Thelema are concerned, looking forward to my first Gnostic Mass and Mars Ritual with my local Oasis in the coming months. Would you care to expand at all on whatever it is you feel has been most valuable to you, or any particular insights gleaned, or are things like that too personal in nature to be all that easily describable?
 
Sepher, as I mentioned, I've been studying & doing solo work on & off for many years. Just over 2 years ago I decided to get serious & really work rather than just read. I began several regular daily rituals and began looking more into the O.T.O. About a year ago I started going to the Open Masses and various public rituals & classes. After about 6 or 7 months of this, in April 2012 (during the 3 Days) I took my Minerval initiation. Minerval is interesting as one is considered more of an 'honored guest' rather than a fully committed member. As a Minerval I can go to private Masses and other members-only events. I've attended a workshop on the LBRP and another on the Star Ruby. I've been to a class on Body Awareness for Magicians and to a series of tarot classes. I've also been able to participate in 2 public rituals. This type of involvement has taught me a lot about ritual construction, preparation and performance. It's fascinating to discuss things with other members and get their views on various occult subjects, as well as to view others actually doing ritual. You can get insights that just aren't available in books.

I've put in my paperwork for First Degree and am just waiting for the next round of initiations, which is rumored to be in about 2 months. I'm really looking forward to getting even more involved and to learn to participate in the Gnostic Mass rather than just be a congregant.

So what has been most valuable to me? Hmmm, a huge one is simply being associated with like minded individuals. I've made some great friendships and have made some very positive changes in my life. As far as insights, most are quite personal in nature, but a general observation is that people from all walks of life are Thelemites. In fact, quite a few people adhere to the tenents of Thelema without even realizing it or knowing anything about it.
 
That's far from true. Magick Without Tears, one of Crowleys clearest and most lucid books, was written near the end of his life. Unfortunately there's a lot of misinformation and outright lies floating around that make Crowley look far worse than he was. He may have been a bit messed up in his personal life, but his synthesis of diverse magickal systems was nothing short of brilliant. I'm confident that he was indeed far closer to 'understanding the Truth' than you may suspect, especially since you stated that you haven't personally studied the occult.

I agree there's a lot of bad press coming from Christian quarters, the assertion that he was "the most wicked man alive" is just nonsense. But he was a bit of a fool. Studying the occult doesn't necessarily bring you closer to the Truth either. Science works in the domain of the physical, the occult works in the domain of the unseen realms. If you know how little science truely understands about the physical then you should also understand just how little the occult knows about the unseen, possibly infinite, realms. You would possibly get another perspective from which to compute thoughts, but to suggest you'd become closer to Truth I believe is wishful thinking.

I've been involved in 'the occult' in general and ceremonial magick in particular. My focus isn't 'power': it's on developing myself to be the best person that I can be. It's about breaking down internal barriers and recreating myself as I wish to be instead of as circumstances have made me. It's about opening up to new experiences and expanding my consciousness.

I don't know you personally so I can't criticize your motives, but going on personal experience, observing others, and the general nature of man.. I would say there probably is an undercurrent of seeking power beneath the surface of your awareness. That doesn't denigrate your character at all, that voice for power is in everyone. All I would say is that if you truely want to break down internal barriers and generally better your life you do not need an official system of ceremonial magik to do that. Introspection and meditation :)

After years of solo work I finally hooked up with the local O.T.O. body. I found there a group of highly intelligent individuals involved in a wide variety of magicikal practices, whose unifying theme is the spiritual philosophy of Thelema. Association with these fine folks has made a world of difference to me and I've been much more focused in my practices.

Wouldn't doubt that at all. Working with a group makes things far easier in terms of personal development. You just have to remain on guard for deception and ulterior motives within occult circles, like you would if you were doing the rounds of ashrams/guru's in India etc.
 
I've read several Crowley biographies and he certainly didn't sound like a particularly pleasant person. Nevertheless, he certainly did produce deep and meaningful works in the field and his influence on the contemporary occult world is significant. I'm not a Crowley apologist, but I do have respect for the fruits of his labors. Now, Truth is a different matter. Is there a specific, universal Truth that is the end all of everything? I doubt it. So, in a sense, any personal development moves one closer to truth, just as a good education moves one closer to knowledge (but not necessarily wisdom!).

As far as power, I will concede that perhaps yes, I do wish to increase power over myself, which in turn will increase power over the outside world. But I don't think of this as a force with which to rule or control others, but as a force with which to better rule and control myself. Again, Power is a word with many shades of meaning. And I've certainly worked with introspection and meditation, and still do, but for me, I've found that outside perspectives have been beneficial.

Finally, I do agree than one must always be on guard for deception and ulterior motives, be in in an occult group, an educational institution, the workplace or any other situation where human beings are working together.
 
Sepher, as I mentioned, I've been studying & doing solo work on & off for many years. Just over 2 years ago I decided to get serious & really work rather than just read. I began several regular daily rituals and began looking more into the O.T.O. . . . . . It's fascinating to discuss things with other members and get their views on various occult subjects, as well as to view others actually doing ritual. You can get insights that just aren't available in books.

I guess I'm just about where you were. My interest goes back to the pre-internet days when the relevant material was hard to find and you needed the kind of devoted, underground book store we luckily had available in Leeds at the time to even begin to track it down, but still, which books, and what to do with them once you'd found them? I've stopped and started lots of times over the years with the ritual practices that you'd find in Regardie, Crowley Book 4, etc but always found it difficult to maintain the motivation with solo work despite some pretty powerful experiences, especially when I've combined the ritual stuff with psychedelics, which is probably cheating but does help make the kind of effect you're aiming for more easily and readily apparent I think. This is partly because it's not always clear what the practice is really driving at in the long term. You most often have to read between the lines and try and work out what's not being said as much as what is being said to really grasp it, but then, how d'you know if you've grasped the right end of the stick? Having people IRL you can bounce ideas off as and when they come to you is a great boon. Talk on Yoga at a recent meeting making lots of connections between the Indian tradition, Zen, Kabbalah, the Abramelin operation and Western Esoterocism generally was fascinating and provided lots of food for thought. Looking forward to more.

All I would say is that if you truely want to break down internal barriers and generally better your life you do not need an official system of ceremonial magik to do that. Introspection and meditation :)

What do you think Ceremonial Magic is but introspection and meditation? Magic and the occult have been called quite rightly 'The Yoga Of The West'. Introspection and meditation is central to it. Ritual magic is essentially devoted to making that which is internal to the sub-conscious mind external, where it can be analysed by conscious thought and re-integrated within the self. It is more a symbolic language and set of practices that enable that than is it is anything else at all.
 
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I walk the Left-hand path. Always have done, just seems to be innate to my personality, it's a much harder path to follow than the fairies and light stuff. It offers you power much earlier on in the game and unless you learn the lesson that power is something to be avoided (rather like a speed-bump), you're in trouble. The Left-Hand Path is not EVIL, it just has different parameters.
 
I walk the Left-hand path. Always have done, just seems to be innate to my personality, it's a much harder path to follow than the fairies and light stuff. It offers you power much earlier on in the game and unless you learn the lesson that power is something to be avoided (rather like a speed-bump), you're in trouble. The Left-Hand Path is not EVIL, it just has different parameters.

that way can be, is, necessary. to understand the light you need to understand the dark, but to understand the dark you dont need to know the light. the dark is false dimension, and creates more false dimensions with the use of the light. that path is always someone elses, exploiting anothers subconscious to create a perception of them and their work. with the use of merit to retain individual interest.

from Lilith to Selene
 
...especially when I've combined the ritual stuff with psychedelics, which is probably cheating but does help make the kind of effect you're aiming for more easily and readily apparent I think.

You might be interested in the following two chapters from the book Generation Hex (ed. by Jason Louv):

"Opening and Closing the Psychedelic Temple" by Simon Forrester
"Fastforward to Meltdown" by Atman

They both talk about the practical issues that come up in combining psychedelics with magical practice. The most important things being, banishing effectively, and properly channelling or grounding the energies that arise.

This is partly because it's not always clear what the practice is really driving at in the long term. You most often have to read between the lines and try and work out what's not being said as much as what is being said to really grasp it, but then, how d'you know if you've grasped the right end of the stick?

My take on it is that all of the practices found in Western Occultism are ultimately techniques for contacting and communicating with non-human intelligences (spirits, angels, gods, demons, entities, energies, extraterrestrials, elements of the subconscious...whatever you want to call them ;)). Psychedelics can help us to do this by breaking down some of the mental barriers we have that prevent us from recognizing the presence of these other beings in our lives. Once you have a reliable method of communicating with them, then all of the initiations and grades and rituals and whatnot become pretty much irrelevant, and where you take things from there depends on what you and your contacts decide to explore.
 
The "occult" is generally meant to describe dark practices or working with dark energies or forms of consciousness, though. That's what sets it apart from what you'd call spirituality or religion. Unless it's something like astrology, which is harmless, but it rarely revolves around white magic or what is known as theurgy.

Anyone considering the occult should listen to John Todd's speeches (can be found on youtube and there's a an own page for them on the internet). No matter what he was, and I don't believe he was right about everything, he was a very powerful speaker and I can tell there is a lot of truth to his words.

Also, his delivery is amazing, he sounds like a cool, charismatic, rockstar. I guess that's why they said he was the one most successful in getting through to young people or the ones who were hardest to reach. Because he didn't sound like a meek, 70 year old, Christian priest.

Kind of funny how he's so hung up on Christianity, but this was before the New Age/modern spiritual movement, and what he saw as the only alternative to the occult. Be careful not to listen to it on dissociates or psychelics, though, as it is pretty dark.

For some reason one of the spiritual speakers that's affected me the most and I know he changed many lives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1taa87h2Q0
 
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that way can be, is, necessary. to understand the light you need to understand the dark, but to understand the dark you dont need to know the light. the dark is false dimension, and creates more false dimensions with the use of the light. that path is always someone elses, exploiting anothers subconscious to create a perception of them and their work. with the use of merit to retain individual interest.

from Lilith to Selene

Bingo. The thing about the left-hand path is that it's based on deception. So while someone might initially be told it's nothing to do with evil and no harm will come to them (and they usually will) that will not actually turn out to be the case. While the right-hand path is based on truth, like what Jesus might have spoken, but the truth has always been hard for humans to hear.

I can see why many would prefer the left-hand path, but think it's weak and silly, to be honest. And it's not the path of happiness, more the path of getting what you want when you want it and not having to earn it the normal way, but involves sooo much suffering down the line.

You might argue drugs are part of the left-hand path, though, but not as serious as getting consciously involved with black magic, etc.
 
I love to lurk about this stuff, but little of it grabs me for long.

Montalk, however, is the exception.
 
A good book on this subject is Coruscatio: The Magical Cactus Voice
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15718872-coruscatio

You might be interested in the following two chapters from the book Generation Hex (ed. by Jason Louv):

"Opening and Closing the Psychedelic Temple" by Simon Forrester
"Fastforward to Meltdown" by Atman

They both talk about the practical issues that come up in combining psychedelics with magical practice. The most important things being, banishing effectively, and properly channelling or grounding the energies that arise/

Most remiss of me not to reply to this sooner. Thanks for the recommendations guys. Much appreciated. Not come across either book before. Look right up my street. Getting on for 100 gig of material here from theoccult.bz and digimob and wouldn't you know they're not in it! Will keep digging. I guess I could always buy them I suppose. ;) Cheers.
 
Bingo. The thing about the left-hand path is that it's based on deception. So while someone might initially be told it's nothing to do with evil and no harm will come to them (and they usually will) that will not actually turn out to be the case. While the right-hand path is based on truth, like what Jesus might have spoken, but the truth has always been hard for humans to hear.

Jesus spent some time in hell too ;) You cant honestly speak against what you dont know. Hes a cool dude, although, yes, he did seem to get frustrated with us always wanting signs. Remember, he said he would "bring not peace but a sword". And its not easy to not want to give up when you see life in harsh black and white, the divide or void. What I saw as more discouraging and dividing, was the lack of awareness of those who believe they are on the right-path.

Between either way presented I choose.
 
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