The "New Psychedelic Movement"
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Belisarius
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Most of what I'm going to say has been said before in this thread:
Getting high isn't going to effect change. If ten times as many people got high on psychedelics, it probably wouldn't effect change.
Why? I see the (regular) drug-using community as a largely manufactured one, one that is a by-product of the anti-drug laws we have in place. It is defined by those laws, and cuts across social classes and races, but there is no coherent program for them to latch on, nor any interest in finding one.
For example, take white-collar regular drug-users, the Wall Street movers and shakers who can shell out cash for H and coke like it's nothing. They are, it seems, very rarely punished or caught for their "crimes", compared to your lower or middle-class users. However, they simply have no common cause with those users. They almost certainly don't sympathize with self-professed psychonauts, or stereotypical "crack-heads" and tweakers, or ravers, whether those others are apologists for drug use or not. They're probably from different classes, and see things from totally different perspectives; they have their own interests, and the biases they were inculcated with, and the political clout to resist change. In short, your average wealthy white coke user is probably no more inclined to legalize weed or LSD than a middle class straight-edger. Likewise, the members of these lower demographics probably have equally little shared ground with the upper.
Even among the lower demographics, there is difference in causes--how many people do we know who are weed smokestacks who are still against the legalization of H, ecstasy, or LSD? Psychonauts probably feel that they have little common cause with those "childish E-tards", while "E-tards" feel like they have little common cause with "crack heads", and so on and so on. Of course, there's also the racial and class biases among this lower demographic, but perhaps we should leave that be for now.
As I said before, drug-users are--or seem to me--to be a manufactured class/subculture. As such, they have little or no connection to the powers that run this country. Most of those hippies and psychedelics proponents in the '60s and '70s probably did NOT become politicians at all, and the ones who did *had* to tailor their politics to get the same office from which they could also effect change! In short, one has to join "the Man" to change him, but to change him one has to pander to the same voters who support "the Man". If Bush (in some bizarro alternate universe) decided to legalize drugs tomorrow, he'd be impeached in no time. If the congress tried to legalize drugs, the president would veto it, or the states would reject it individually. If the states tried to legalize drugs, the counties, cities, and parishes could reject it, and so on. The government is its own buffer. This whole scenario doesn't include the fact that fewer and fewer people vote these days--and mostly the ones from the vaunted younger demographic who are supposed to be the vanguards of change.
*If* any change is going to happen to U.S. drug policy, it will be from the grassroots level, and it will probably also be extremely slow, probably taking many generations. I doubt any of us on the board today will live to see it, realistically, though of course I hope I'm wrong.
Getting high isn't going to effect change. If ten times as many people got high on psychedelics, it probably wouldn't effect change.
Why? I see the (regular) drug-using community as a largely manufactured one, one that is a by-product of the anti-drug laws we have in place. It is defined by those laws, and cuts across social classes and races, but there is no coherent program for them to latch on, nor any interest in finding one.
For example, take white-collar regular drug-users, the Wall Street movers and shakers who can shell out cash for H and coke like it's nothing. They are, it seems, very rarely punished or caught for their "crimes", compared to your lower or middle-class users. However, they simply have no common cause with those users. They almost certainly don't sympathize with self-professed psychonauts, or stereotypical "crack-heads" and tweakers, or ravers, whether those others are apologists for drug use or not. They're probably from different classes, and see things from totally different perspectives; they have their own interests, and the biases they were inculcated with, and the political clout to resist change. In short, your average wealthy white coke user is probably no more inclined to legalize weed or LSD than a middle class straight-edger. Likewise, the members of these lower demographics probably have equally little shared ground with the upper.
Even among the lower demographics, there is difference in causes--how many people do we know who are weed smokestacks who are still against the legalization of H, ecstasy, or LSD? Psychonauts probably feel that they have little common cause with those "childish E-tards", while "E-tards" feel like they have little common cause with "crack heads", and so on and so on. Of course, there's also the racial and class biases among this lower demographic, but perhaps we should leave that be for now.
As I said before, drug-users are--or seem to me--to be a manufactured class/subculture. As such, they have little or no connection to the powers that run this country. Most of those hippies and psychedelics proponents in the '60s and '70s probably did NOT become politicians at all, and the ones who did *had* to tailor their politics to get the same office from which they could also effect change! In short, one has to join "the Man" to change him, but to change him one has to pander to the same voters who support "the Man". If Bush (in some bizarro alternate universe) decided to legalize drugs tomorrow, he'd be impeached in no time. If the congress tried to legalize drugs, the president would veto it, or the states would reject it individually. If the states tried to legalize drugs, the counties, cities, and parishes could reject it, and so on. The government is its own buffer. This whole scenario doesn't include the fact that fewer and fewer people vote these days--and mostly the ones from the vaunted younger demographic who are supposed to be the vanguards of change.
*If* any change is going to happen to U.S. drug policy, it will be from the grassroots level, and it will probably also be extremely slow, probably taking many generations. I doubt any of us on the board today will live to see it, realistically, though of course I hope I'm wrong.
hashish2020
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...I'm prolly just gonna move out of the country after my degree. By that time, large portions of our taxes will go directly to debt interest, and our economy will be in decline. I'm thinking Canada, Australia, UK, Ireland, or maybe even my (ethnic) homeland, India(probably not tho, i like regular electricity)
So I sidestep the whole hassle of a movement....it isn't going to reshape a culture whose ideas on altered states have roots going back over 300 years.
So I sidestep the whole hassle of a movement....it isn't going to reshape a culture whose ideas on altered states have roots going back over 300 years.
I agree with hashish...I can't wait to move out of the country...it seems like the way of life in America is giving way to the drama caused by it these days. I'm thinking a less involved country, like Sweden or Australia...maybe find a nice neutral country! :D
theghostofbillhicks
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its fun here in the UK. magic mushrooms are legal. and you can smoke in bars .
X
X
While I don't think there is any type of political movement going on here, I do think that there are several unique aspects to the psychedelic children of the information age.
I began researching psychoactives online about 8 years ago and I was amazed at the amount of information that none of my friends had ever heard about. My search did not lead me into some criminal underground or anything, but rather I would be learning how to identify morning glories growing in the neighborhood, reading ingredient lists in the supermarket, reading up on basic chemistry, trying to sort through rumor and fact etc. The more I looked, the more I found and soon, it was clear that I didn't need to know somebody, but rather know something in order to find what I was after. The kinds of information that has become available in this field has increased tremondously and now there are literally hundreds of methods to reach entheogenic states that are available to anyone who is looking (regardless of laws).
Information seekers from all over the world are reading these lines right now and what is bringing them here is their own interest.
This is not about the information flow that hits the mainstream, it is about those who are looking for this information connecting with it.
I began researching psychoactives online about 8 years ago and I was amazed at the amount of information that none of my friends had ever heard about. My search did not lead me into some criminal underground or anything, but rather I would be learning how to identify morning glories growing in the neighborhood, reading ingredient lists in the supermarket, reading up on basic chemistry, trying to sort through rumor and fact etc. The more I looked, the more I found and soon, it was clear that I didn't need to know somebody, but rather know something in order to find what I was after. The kinds of information that has become available in this field has increased tremondously and now there are literally hundreds of methods to reach entheogenic states that are available to anyone who is looking (regardless of laws).
Information seekers from all over the world are reading these lines right now and what is bringing them here is their own interest.
This is not about the information flow that hits the mainstream, it is about those who are looking for this information connecting with it.
psychonaut65
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Whats stopping a mass rally in hyde park-london, if we collaborated and functioned as one unit would it not be possible to make history in one event. The internet has given people like us a voice, the baby bloomers had nothing like the technology we have now. This discussion is undoubtfully one of the most important threads on bluelight. Like theghostofbillhicks stated mushrooms are already legal in the UK and if you look for them they are everywhere. If a mass rally was held would people not inquire what all the fuss was about. It would have to be a mass rally of as many intellectual psychonauts as possible this would be the only drawback, if numerous persons spread the message over the internet to create this mass event maybe we would make a indent in society. People hold mass events like raves all the time illegally so whats stopping a mass psychedelic movement only different from the rave would be a political edge so we could voice our opinions to the government make everyone turn on at once. I will assume i will receive alot of pessimism about this but i believe it could be done if we organised ourselves in an orderly way
theghostofbillhicks
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Hey psychonaut.
nice idea, i'd love to see it happen. The shame about many demonstrations is that the attitufe of the demonstrator's undermines their credence.
In my experience the people looking for a fight usually hijack the rally for their own ends.
If a parade of tripping 'intellectual psychonauts' got together in a city with cops around, the chances are that some kid will demonstrate how psychedelics can be dangerous in the wrong hands. It would be grist for the mill of the powers that be.
Now, if you're talking about using these chemicals to augment our selves, to increase insight, compassion and wisdom; opening our minds and not blowing them; using our experiences to better our *selves* while not impressing our techniques upon the unwilling, then i'm with you.
p e a c e
nice idea, i'd love to see it happen. The shame about many demonstrations is that the attitufe of the demonstrator's undermines their credence.
In my experience the people looking for a fight usually hijack the rally for their own ends.
If a parade of tripping 'intellectual psychonauts' got together in a city with cops around, the chances are that some kid will demonstrate how psychedelics can be dangerous in the wrong hands. It would be grist for the mill of the powers that be.
Now, if you're talking about using these chemicals to augment our selves, to increase insight, compassion and wisdom; opening our minds and not blowing them; using our experiences to better our *selves* while not impressing our techniques upon the unwilling, then i'm with you.
p e a c e
This intrigues me as well. As TGOBH said, we'd need to prevent any outbreaks of psychedelic hysteria, violence, etc. The important thing is that those in charge of the rally be responsible and well prepared.
It's not impossible. At woodstock 50000 people gathered. Many were tripping or wigged out on other drugs, yet there were only 2 deaths, and little violence.
It's not impossible. At woodstock 50000 people gathered. Many were tripping or wigged out on other drugs, yet there were only 2 deaths, and little violence.
theghostofbillhicks
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I think to focus too much on those who use psychedelics is to fetishize our tools. And for me that is all they are.
if enough people share the sentiment behind it, they will let each other know. I think we may be on the verge of a big social change here. We're either on a repeat of the 60's or the 80's. I'm not sure which, but i'm sure i know which one i'd prefer to eventuate.
if enough people share the sentiment behind it, they will let each other know. I think we may be on the verge of a big social change here. We're either on a repeat of the 60's or the 80's. I'm not sure which, but i'm sure i know which one i'd prefer to eventuate.
psychonaut65
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If a parade of tripping 'intellectual psychonauts' got together in a city with cops around, the chances are that some kid will demonstrate how psychedelics can be dangerous in the wrong hands. It would be grist for the mill of the powers that be.
quoted tgobh
That what would be precisely what we would set out to avoid, to make people aware that these drugs can be used as tools of enlightenment and not simply to get high, the flaw would be drugs would be widely available in such a gathering and it would then inevitably fall into the wrong hands but if we stated to the mainstream that the event is set out to prevent the misinterpretation of the psychedelic movement and show how people can use these sacraments for their own personnel benefit in a safe and managable way and that the only thing from preventing them being used in this way is society's ignorance to the fact that they are not bad. We would not be able to change the government as they are so full of shit that i am frankly scared to think what will happen with the likes of Bush and that little shit Blair governing a portion of the most powerful part of the world.
To anyone who has read Aldous Huxleys Island will understand what i am striving for but for those who havn't it provides a detailed description of how society can live with the benefit of psychedelics such as the sacred mushroom and the consequent society is a vision of utopia, i have to hand it to Huxley but what gobsmacks me is one of the most important and influential writers in history has published his opinions on the matter and look where society is now. The only way forward is for drastic change but the question remains can this be acheived
quoted tgobh
That what would be precisely what we would set out to avoid, to make people aware that these drugs can be used as tools of enlightenment and not simply to get high, the flaw would be drugs would be widely available in such a gathering and it would then inevitably fall into the wrong hands but if we stated to the mainstream that the event is set out to prevent the misinterpretation of the psychedelic movement and show how people can use these sacraments for their own personnel benefit in a safe and managable way and that the only thing from preventing them being used in this way is society's ignorance to the fact that they are not bad. We would not be able to change the government as they are so full of shit that i am frankly scared to think what will happen with the likes of Bush and that little shit Blair governing a portion of the most powerful part of the world.
To anyone who has read Aldous Huxleys Island will understand what i am striving for but for those who havn't it provides a detailed description of how society can live with the benefit of psychedelics such as the sacred mushroom and the consequent society is a vision of utopia, i have to hand it to Huxley but what gobsmacks me is one of the most important and influential writers in history has published his opinions on the matter and look where society is now. The only way forward is for drastic change but the question remains can this be acheived
theghostofbillhicks
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look, it's easy to get lost in fantasy. Utopian dreams are only dreams. Change comes incrementaly. drastic change sounds a little fierce don't you think?
I truly think the only way forward is to work on ourselves, not on working for everyone else to be like us, agree with us or think like us. Just get your own head as honest and truthful and real as you possibly can. That's the game here,is it not??
I truly think the only way forward is to work on ourselves, not on working for everyone else to be like us, agree with us or think like us. Just get your own head as honest and truthful and real as you possibly can. That's the game here,is it not??
psychonaut65
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But why do they have to be dreams, there are alot of things that are obviously wrong for no reason, as a "movement" we are not recognised i see your point when you state not on owrking for every one else to be like this thx, but why can't we become accepted as a part of society. In doing psychedelics i have found that society is spoiling all the earthly treasures, we in the west are fortunate but there are millions of people suffering for our wealth it doesn't come out of thin air and many people don't realise this fact and are totally ignorant and oblivious to the world around them with the aid of hallucinogenics this can be corrected, Huxley illustrates a utopia that i think is within our reach and that the only way forward for our society is to preach the use of psychedelics as unarguably in the right circumstances they provide a unified knowledge that would better our society to such a great extent.
How can we keep our own head honest and truthful and real when the world the world around is dumbfoundingly wrong and ignorant in many ways, when the society we live and work in tells us we are bad because we are using drugs who are they to say?
Timothy Leary talks about conditioning and unfortunately many people in this day are conditioned to society and the ones that aren't have already found their place by discussing within this forum, i see myself not morally wrong on many levels however society could call me wrong on a lot of levels espeicially the school i am at which does not allow drug use at all but are we wrong?
How can we keep our own head honest and truthful and real when the world the world around is dumbfoundingly wrong and ignorant in many ways, when the society we live and work in tells us we are bad because we are using drugs who are they to say?
Timothy Leary talks about conditioning and unfortunately many people in this day are conditioned to society and the ones that aren't have already found their place by discussing within this forum, i see myself not morally wrong on many levels however society could call me wrong on a lot of levels espeicially the school i am at which does not allow drug use at all but are we wrong?
I don't worry about changing the laws immediatly so much as about "converting" those around me. If you can change the minds of even 15 or 20 people you will have made a great deal of difference in changing society. Any real change needs to be gradual, and it needs to come from the bottom.
mr_p
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this thread has got me thinking ...
how fuct up and ignorant mainstream western culture is ....
can they not see that our political system is based on consumerism and exloitation of the environment ...
i'm not really sure what i'm going on about rightn now, just having a little cry about the situation we are in now ...
it is as if they do not want people to take psychadelics because they know it will expand peoples minds and let them see the world for what it is ... (A MOST BEATIFUL PLACE TO LIVE) .... and the leaders of the world fear that if we start to care for the environment .. then this attitude totally contradicts the values of western society ....
ohhhhh k this is a little of topic and maybe pointless ... BUT I will say this ...
"we think we're right ... they think they're right"
^^^ the above words have always got me thinking about the possibility that I am wrong in my values ..... BUT you must look at "THEIR" values and "OUR" values (by OUR I am generalising on the many human beings who's values have been influenced or clarified through the use of psychadlics) ..... farrrrrk i have to stop hear getting confused and pissed off .... sorry for blabbing crap !
peace
how fuct up and ignorant mainstream western culture is ....
can they not see that our political system is based on consumerism and exloitation of the environment ...
i'm not really sure what i'm going on about rightn now, just having a little cry about the situation we are in now ...
it is as if they do not want people to take psychadelics because they know it will expand peoples minds and let them see the world for what it is ... (A MOST BEATIFUL PLACE TO LIVE) .... and the leaders of the world fear that if we start to care for the environment .. then this attitude totally contradicts the values of western society ....
ohhhhh k this is a little of topic and maybe pointless ... BUT I will say this ...
"we think we're right ... they think they're right"
^^^ the above words have always got me thinking about the possibility that I am wrong in my values ..... BUT you must look at "THEIR" values and "OUR" values (by OUR I am generalising on the many human beings who's values have been influenced or clarified through the use of psychadlics) ..... farrrrrk i have to stop hear getting confused and pissed off .... sorry for blabbing crap !
peace
theghostofbillhicks
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The thing about any psychedelic movement is that any serious work we would want do to as a group would be undermined by those who have just been confused by the whole experience. Evinced by some of the above texts.
X
X
duneonthemoon
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The thing is, (as i'm sure others have stated in this thread, i skipped the middle pages) the last time there was a "psychedelic movement" people gave it a really bad name, kids dropping out of school, people stopping work and such and such.
The best thing we can do if we want to keep our drug culture alive is too keep it very underground, enjoy it in your own time and share your experiences with fellow trippers in places like these.
Drugs will have a big impact again with the creation of new and more impressive drugs in the future.
I always feel ripped off that I never got to participate in the sixties/seventies, woodstock and that whole massive acid patch. But the thing is that I am part of a new type of movement, I am part of a resposible drug using community who are just normal people with awesome hobbies :D
I like what I am apart of right now, and in a way it is a movement, it's us proving to them that you can be a responsible and recreational drug user.
life is good.
The best thing we can do if we want to keep our drug culture alive is too keep it very underground, enjoy it in your own time and share your experiences with fellow trippers in places like these.
Drugs will have a big impact again with the creation of new and more impressive drugs in the future.
I always feel ripped off that I never got to participate in the sixties/seventies, woodstock and that whole massive acid patch. But the thing is that I am part of a new type of movement, I am part of a resposible drug using community who are just normal people with awesome hobbies :D
I like what I am apart of right now, and in a way it is a movement, it's us proving to them that you can be a responsible and recreational drug user.
life is good.
theghostofbillhicks
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i think psychedelics are an accesory to consciousness that can be used to increase awareness and understandin and the divine or misused for sensory delight and ego tripping which can lead to confusion.
These are just beliefs and as such can be heartily argued with. What about you Kanaba?
These are just beliefs and as such can be heartily argued with. What about you Kanaba?