The Needle Stigma

[mrephedrine69]

Re: Re: Re: fun!

Originally posted by ayjay
MrEp, you seem to be saying that being dependent on a drug is some kind of moral failing - that these "JUNKIES" are of less worth than other humans because of their dependence on a drug. Do you really mean this?

Let me ask you a question: In general, are these people more productive in society, or less productive?

I'm not sure of your experience with drugs, but I'm sure it is of a decent level.

Do you think that 'junkies' have a clearer head, have smarter thoughts, and get more done for the benefit of themselves and others (Things that mean something eg. career progression or being a role model to younger family members) when they're 'off their face' more often than they're not? And if someone is this way, can they consider themselves to have done the best they could with their life? Can they be truly content that their life meant something due to their positive contribution to society?

Originally posted by ayjay Have you ever been dependent on nicotine? Or caffeine? (Even in the simplistic physical sense of experiencing a withdrawal syndrome) For these drugs (especially the latter - or should I say latte ), being dependent is socially acceptable.

Absolutely. I am dependent on nicotine and have been for over 8 years. Does this affect my day to day life and contribution to the people and the world around me? No.

I was dependent on marijuana for 6 years. A gram a day. Did this affect my day to day life and contribution to the people and the world around me? Yes. I was lethargic, I couldn't be fucked. Instead of finding a way to help the people/world around me, I was more worried about how I was going to make a gram last 2 days.... Waiting for the next 'hit' you could call it. Marijuana was the MOST important thing because if I didn't have it, I didn't feel normal.

Originally posted by ayjay Is the different emotional response to heroin dependence totally rational, or is there some prejudice at play here?

The prejudice is needle use. Heroin and Speed included. As funluvingirl said, these people are taking their drugs very seriously. It's not just a fun thing to do on the weekends anymore (in most cases) it's a way of life. You compare the people that IV their drugs vs. people that use other forms of administration. I'm sure you'll find that the people that IV compared to the people that don't, have a higher percentage that are very regular users (ie. more than once a week). In more cases than not, they're not doing it for fun, their doing it for satisfaction of a craving.

I have had 4 people in my close circle of friends that used needles at one stage. ALL four of them became addicted to the substance they were using. Some heroin, some speed. When they were having a 'social line' with the group (or even a regular line),for years, they were fine. But as soon as the needle use began, they became different people. 2 of them disappeared for over 6 months. They eventually returned and told their story of how the needle use of the drug took over their life. They all apologised profusely. (What for I wonder?) One ended up with speed psycosis, and is still not all there today. The others didn't harm themselves physically, but realised that what they had been through was something that wasn't the best for them or their 'true' friends. They were lucky. All 4 of them described it as like going to hell and back, just as in the start of this thread it was put. So hence the 'prejudice'. This is not an uncommon experience as you may know.

Let me ask another question. Can you name one person that is CEO of a large company, or that leads a country, or has had a major benefit to the community/world, that IV's or has IV'd drugs? I know you can name someone that has taken drugs, but not as 'seriously' as using needles that could fit in that category....... how bout George Bush???

 

[SWIM]

Being an Ex-Heroin user myself, I definately can say personally it was simply the curiousity of the IV's which made me ask a friend to jack me up.

My opinion & experience has been that IV's socially have a downview due to the use of Junkies, No doubt! However, using IV's definately does not classify one as a junkie. Junkies are people who can not support their habit. They are so desperate for the effect of the product, that they choose to inject it for its quick effects. The upside to this is the Rush one will experience! The effects of a whole seshion of heroin or speed hitting the person all at once *with a buildup in physical sensations*. When a person is hanging out for heroin *physically addicted*, Instead of smoking a little rock, he will inject it also due to the person not wanting to have it as a hobby, but a personal problem.

I am a 24 year old IT Software Engineer working for a high end telecommunications company. I rent a nice house, own my own tv, pc, clothes, bed.. Gas and electricity connected! Oh, and my tolerance to amphetamines are that high, not even a 12 hour cooked product has issues sending me upwards. Oh! And I Inject!

Does this classify me as a junkie? Or is my mind simply stronger than most addicts? Yes, I "hang" out like any other addict! However, theres a huge difference between a drug addict and a "junkie".

- SWIM

 

[Special-T.B.K]

There are prolly thousands of High class Businessmen in This country that are heroin Addicts or Speed addicts! but just because you are an addict does not mean you can not live out the rest of your life as any other normal human being... All around us there are addicts, whether they be homeless in the gutter or wearing a suit driving a Maserati to work!

:D

 

[chugs]

Spare a thought to an old ex-Leper (hehe "did you say ex-leper").....(sorry for the uber long post).

With our little needle debate, it shows that although the majority of non-users believe tobacco & Alcohol account for the majority of drug-related deaths that these people perceive heroin & cannabis as “drug problems”. We in BL perceive a needle stigma – whether there is an actual problem is another question that needs to be answered.

http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/bp/1996-97/97bp12.htm is a great article on the socio-economic details of drug users in Australia. Some very safe assumptions I can make are:

• Only a small proportion of the population IV opiates & ATS (Amphetamine Type Stimulants)
• Users can be separated two groups; those from lower or disadvantaged socio economic grounds, and those who come from upper socio-economic backgrounds
• Certain drugs are predominately used by different demographics. Based on socio-economic backgrounds different behaviours occur which have an impact on needle disposal and health issues.
  [/list=a]
  To this end, and as a personal generalisation, the majority of visible drugs opiate IV users I perceive are white, from low to middle class socio-economic backgrounds. I do not perceive them have tertiary education, or an acceptable level of secondary education nor do I perceive them to have many concerns about the health implications of their use, and (getting to the crunch) less concerns about the consequences that occur with the incorrect disposal of their equipments. The majority of these users (and for all users of drugs) I have known have all come from broken homes a.k.a social isolation syndrome – (what happens when you family splits up? You lose a social network which would have otherwise minimised high risk behaviour).
  
  The above link attests to this by stating:
  
  “What are the socioeconomic characteristics of drug users? Some recent research which has been done involving injecting drug users casts doubts on traditional ideas. Injecting drug use is often associated with chaotic lifestyles, unemployment and poor education. Australian studies have tended to bear out these views. One Western Australian study of injecting drug users who had been in treatment found that only 24 per cent had completed secondary schooling and about 80 per cent were unemployed.(35) However, more recent work suggests that the profile of injecting drug users who have had little or no experience in drug treatment may be different. Two researchers from the National Centre for Research into the Prevention of Drug Abuse found that 44 per cent of such drug users were married or living with their sexual partner, nearly 24 per cent had finished high school, about 22 per cent had completed trade or technical school education, nearly 7 per cent had finished a university or college course, 46 per cent were employed and nearly 17 per cent owned or were buying their own home.(36)”.
  
  Hence to simplify my contention I believe there are two groups of IV users. One which are the very visible lower socio-economic type user and the other is the mid to upper class type. How many are in either group its hard to say however reading an anti-drug site (I’ve lost the link) it figures (and conclusions) reflected that a large portion of IV ATS & opiate users did not, or come, from disadvantaged socio-economic backgrounds.
  
  To further show this separation of users with respects to drug of choice and difference in IV population a great article located at http://www.police.govt.nz/resources/2004/meth-impact/ shows that approx 100,000 people in NZ use ATS (Amphetamine Type Stimulants), or 1 in every 5 ATS users have apparently IV in the last 6 months. The report goes on to say that ATS users had high levels of employment, were middle class, and from a large range of occupational backgrounds, and had relatively high levels of education.
  
  Moving on I believe the people most likely to fail to adhere to best practice in needle disposal would be of a lower socio-economic background, who are unfortunately highly visible to a prejudiced population (user and non-user alike).
  
  The needle stigma is simply the product of a highly-visible group of people who, with every other aspect of their lives, reflect standards which are almost detestable to that of the mainstream population. The media, a tool which only entrenches the opinions of the conservatives, are only too happy to play on the inherent prejudices (and with the use of half-truths) of mainstream non using porportion of the population hence creating the needles stigma.
  
  Although harm is possible (as attested in the NZ report) it simply states that the biggest issues were of social isolation / stigma (most likely caused by their drug use and the prejudices of their non-using friends) and short term health issues (loss of energy). Since only the small group of “frequent” users indicated serious physical and mental health issues it only goes to show that for the most, the majority IV drugs users enjoy a fairly safe drug lifestyle whilst being able to maintain their socio-economic status.
  
  To bring this post to end for the majority of users there are no significant health reason (or evidence) available to indicate an actual problem behind the stigma surrounding the IV’ing of drugs (hence the attitudes of the majority BLs who IV). If 100,000 (the approx amount of people in Australia who IV drugs regularly) users were all experiencing issues that some BLs claim to have happen when one IV’s drugs then our health services would be flooded with the “walking dead”. This is, obviously, not the case.
  
  We at BL have a duty to destroy the prejudices of those who believe otherwise as they attempt to use such baseless arguments in opposition to harm-minimisation and decriminalisation policies.
  
  On a personal note I’ve gone off the deep end but that wasn’t due to IV’ing – it was due to a lack of a social network, and a society who only saw to punish my behaviour instead of pro-actively solving it in the first place (or having polices to mininise the eventual risks I took when such support was unavailable).

 

[banga]

The Needle Stigma...shootin' shit again

Why is it that once you use needles people assume that you've gone to hell with no way back? I'm sick and tired of hearing people associate needle usage with death, decay, lack of morals etc etc.

I'm not saying that IVing doesn't have it's risks, but I mean, in Australia we have access to needle exchanges, loads of information on safe shooting...so why the stigma?

firstly, injecting drugs, which are not made under ideal circumstances, straight into the bloodstream is not a good idea IMO. impurities (and there are many of them; toxic and non-toxic) and cutting agents (good and bad) are all injected straight into the bloodstream, by-passing the filtering mechanisms of the body.

consequently the body cops the rap for the high.

so...it could be said that....'IV users put the drug, and the high before their own health!

therein LIE the stigma!

 

[ayjay]

Excellent posts by SWIM, S-TBK & chugs.

MrEp - Let's stop using the 'J' word - it's too emotionally coloured and could be read to mean too many different things. There is an argument that the stigmatisation of injecting drug users actually pushes them towards more problematic use (see Zinberg "Drug, Set & Setting" - you can get it off www.drugtext.org). Given that, acting to reduce stigma against people who inject may actually reduce the chance of them coming to grief. Also - being dependent on (say) heroin doesn't necessarily mean being wasted all the time - people with habits can and do learn how to titrate their dose so they can 'contribute to society'. And listen - the whole 'contribute to society' line is a load of bollox with regard to judging drug users IMO. On that basis, you could equally argue that stokebrokers need a sharp wake-up call, because of their complicity in the "upward flood" effect of modern capitalism. How do you judge the value of a life? How about those slack-arsed people with intellectual disabilities who aren't pulling their weight in the market place? Think about it....

Banga - it is a common theme that people who inject drugs don't care about their health - and in my view this reflects ignorance and prejudice. The fact that people pick up new fits shows they care about their health. Also, health needs to be considered beyond the narrow medical/physical model - there are social and psychological aspects to health as well. Finally - much of the information we get about ALL illicit drugs is shonky - emphasising the negatives or missing out important information. It's pretty hard to filter out the truth without some personal experience. I would bet that pretty much everyone on this list has taken something that they have been told would be bad for them - does that mean that no-one on BL cares about their health?

And for the record - I think that injecting drugs DOES mean that you are more likely to experience the negative consequences of drug use - but a lot of that increased risk stems from the fear, ignorance and prejudice against injecting drug use and users.

 

[Diacetylus]

Let me ask another question. Can you name one person that is CEO of a large company, or that leads a country, or has had a major benefit to the community/world, that IV's or has IV'd drugs? I know you can name someone that has taken drugs, but not as 'seriously' as using needles that could fit in that category....... how bout George Bush??

Actually, to be completely honest, I'm sure if there ever were a president that IV'ed a drug as their preferred method of administration, they would take as many measures as they could, so as to cover it up. Due to the method's stigma.

And, I'm sure George Dubya, and many other presidents have had Morphine, or another drug I.V.ed in hospital for pre/post operative surgeory. I have on numerous occasions and to this very day I have yet to fall victim to the syringe. By this I mean, I have never voluntarily injected a drug into my bloodstream. (but, I admit, from memory, I enjoyed the effects of the Morphine they gave me in hospital. especially, given how damned effective it was at annihilating my pain). To this very day, I smoke Heroin occasionally and never even considered I.V.'ing it... (I have a phobia of needles)

-----------

And, as to what AyJay said about there being very little risk in terms of health in-regards to stepping on a syringe, I totally disagree. Have you ever stepped on a nail before? Damn man, stepping on anything spikey isn't exactly what you'd call a 'healthy' or 'fun' experience. Especially, when it's due to someone being so selfish and careless, just to litter their used syringe on the ground. In my opinion, you could have made better points without trying to justify someone being completely and utterly lazy, careless and selfish.
All it takes is for someone to go a little out of their way and put their used syringe in a bottle (shit, I've seen friends buy a drink from seven eleven, solely for this purpose), tighten the lid and discard.

And, just becuse there is very little risk (or little history) of someone contracting AIDS or Hepatitis C from a littered syringe-prick, doesn't necessarily rule out the fact that the possibility is still there. In my opinion, you were kind of sending the wrong message.

 

[BlackRabbitOfInle]

I've always considered it a combination of the fact a lot of people have a needle phobia, and the association with full-on addiction. IVing is essentially the 'end of the line' for using a drug, and the most potent and short-lasting effects, so the most potential for addiction.

But mostly it is just ignorance as well. Up until I started IVing myself, I'd never heard of the term 'chipper' for a non-addicted heroin user. I'd never even heard of heroin use in that context, only seen it in the context of addicted users, primarily in movies/TV/books/etc. You also rarely see addicts portrayed as anything but the worst of the worst - I have a mild heroin addiction, but I work fulltime, I moved out of home long ago, I pay my bills, I donate to charity, I have a social life with friends who aren't users as well as the ones who do use. Some people sit in the office craving another cup of coffee, I sit there craving junk. Ehh. It's not ideal, but I'm not spiralling out of control here or anything.

What really annoys me is that the same people who will go on about how fantastic something like cocaine is will shit themselves if you mention heroin. Fuuuuuck off with that shit, personal preferences are fine, but it's one thing for a non-drug user to be ignorant about drugs, but for someone using other hard drugs to continue those false perceptions for the ones they don't use is frustrating.

Fortunately not everyone's like that, though. I have a couple of pothead non-using friends who have no issue at all with me shooting up in front of them.

 

[Ashley]

Fortunately not everyone's like that, though. I have a couple of pothead non-using friends who have no issue at all with me shooting up in front of them.

Likewise.

 

[BlackRabbitOfInle]

Likewise.

Though the same friends have said that if I'm dumb enough to OD in their house, they'll be dumping me on the street and calling an ambulance to pick me up from there. Fair enough though.