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US Politics The Mueller Investigation - report is out

If Mueller drops the investigation, no collusion, no crimes committed.
If Trump's re-elected with the popular vote maybe (or if they uncover the true vote count of '16)


 
TheLoveBandit said:
Nothing will legitimize Trump as President in MSM. Nothing.
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Which Trump readily and persistently insists and which leads to nutcase terrorists sending letter-bombs.

Its part of Trump's appeal to his constituents anyway. To retain power he needs to propagate amd maintain this particular idea. The MSM is working for him either way.
 
I dunno. Obama and the drone program are disgraceful things though.

To be fair, I couldn't name a single US president that hasn't promoted violence in one form or another.
 
Welcome back swilow. You've been missed.

Yes, the thread derailed from Mueller to political (primarily Presidential) influence towards violence. I think this is a very appropriate topic for discussion and would like to see where the right home for it might be (mods? is there a merge, or a split out possible?).


On Mueller, I can see Trump removing him before long, though no matter how-why-when he does it he will earn criticism (notice I said 'earn', not get blamed). No matter what, it will be viewed (and aptly so) that it is Trump having a childish snap back at someone who has wronged him. This is regardless of the investigation closing with nothing or bringing charges. I don't see Trump's ego letting Mueller survive the personal insult Trump feels he has suffered to date...then again, I don't see anything else that will make Trump hate Mueller any worse.

Where I see a struggle is in firing Mueller for doing his job poorly, as evidenced in the Hillary server 'investigation' and the related immunity, lost data, and lack of actually investigating. It almost feels like if Trump has such skeletons, Mueller will have to trip over them to find them, and event then he may not recognize them. Trump or no Trump, anyone in the Oval Office should be removing this guy and finding someone capable of running an investigation - regardless of who is to be investigated.

But that brings another problem - is there someone Trump can put in place who is capable, and will not be viewed as 'in Trump's pocket'? Again, I sincerely doubt this is possible. Trump's persona and reputation means anyone put in that position is assumed to be biased. Repubs can't claim 'they did it, so it is fair', at least not with a straight face, though I'm sure they will try. This is only my speculation on "MUELLER!"

= = =

For this specific investigation...if Mueller is doing the job correctly, there would be no leaks. There would be hard facts (not accusations, facts) brought forth when found. Maybe he is running a tight ship. If we look at his publicly known history in running investigations, it appears the Hillary server situation WAS kept under wraps during it's active investigation time. It is only later that we have leaks where questionable motives and actions have surfaced. Which is to say, Mueller may very well have solid info under wraps, not getting leaked. People will then question 'when' will he bring any of this to light? If he does it, as many expect, just before midterms (got about a week left), then it again puts his decision making under scrutiny for political motivations as opposed to doing his investigative job. It could be coincidence that 'now' is when he has enough solid info to bring forth. If so, it is unfortunate. I'm not saying he should hold until after elections, I think it should be brought out when there is enough to make a case.

If he brings it out before elections and it is hard hitting - I can look past political timing assumptions and commend him for bringing someone to justice.

If he brings it out before elections and is is weak fluff - I would have to seriously question his political motivations for timing, rather than holding for a firm case. OR, if that's all he's got..fine, lets wrap up this weak sauce and move on.

If he doesn't bring it out by election time - we are in the same place we are today, asking if he has anything or if he is treading water and praying for a miracle OR if it really takes 18+months to find enough substance to bring charges.
 
|~~ANT~~| said:
^How much money has this investigation cost so far and what has it accomplished?
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far less money than the benghazi and email investigations and many many more convictions

i thought the republican "tough on crime" line was, nothign to hide nothing to fear? so why are so many conservatives so terrified of this investigation continuing?
 
I don't know any conservatives who are afraid, let alone terrified, let alone "so" terrified. I've never seen anybody interviewed who appears to be remotely afraid, either... :\

Fyi I split some posts off to the good old Trump thread.
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Now my MUELLER! comment looks insane.

NSFW:
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far less money than the benghazi and email investigations and many many more convictions
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From what I can see, it has cost significantly more money than the Benghazi probe.

As for the number of convictions, one of them (Benghazi) was a congressional probe and the other (Mueller / Trump) is a criminal investigation which has meticulously combed through an entire administration. I don't see how the number of convictions (many versus zero) means anything in particular... If the Obama administration was investigated like Trump is being investigated, there would have been some minor tangential convictions. They haven't found what they were looking for. So, they have nothing really. They just found some other shit along the way.

https://theweek.com/speedreads/782008/trey-gowdy-who-headed-benghazi-investigation-more-than-2-years-claims-mueller-taking-long
 
And the crazy thing is that in Benghazi we have direct evidence of crimes - deaths due to negligence. But with Trump there's no crime, not even an accusation of a specific crime.
 
What Sessions' resignation means for the Mueller investigation

Attorney General Jeff Sessions? abrupt resignation on Wednesday at the request of President Trump immediately raised questions about the fate of special counsel Robert Mueller?s wide-ranging investigation into potential Russian collusion and ties to Trump's 2016 campaign.

Driving the news: President Trump has elevated Justice Department chief of staff, Matthew Whitaker to acting attorney general until a permanent replacement is confirmed. Whitaker has questioned the scope of Mueller's investigation.

The details: The deputy attorney general traditionally assumes the acting role as the country?s top law enforcement official upon such a departure.


  • Rosenstein has been overseeing the special counsel?s investigation after Sessions recused himself due to his close ties with the Trump campaign.
  • However, Whitaker will now assume control of the investigation, according to a DOJ prosecutor.
  • He had questioned the scope of the Mueller probe, arguing in a CNN op-ed last year that the special counsel had gone too far in explaining the Trump family?s finances.
?This would raise serious concerns that the special counsel?s investigation was a mere witch hunt.?

The big picture: Rosenstein has largely been seen as a barrier protecting the Mueller investigation from Trump?s interference. As Susan Hennessey and Benjamin Wittes of the Lawfare Blog explain, Rosenstein "has assiduously defended the Mueller investigation, even as the president has decried it as a ?witch hunt,? even as congressional committees have pressed for unprecedented document releases by way of discrediting it."

What's next: With Democrats fresh off a midterm campaign victory in taking control of the House, they will continue to express their frustrations over Whitaker's new role and the urgent need for congressional action to protect Mueller. They've already warned that Whitaker's previous remarks about Mueller suggest he is unfit to oversee the investigation.
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https://www.axios.com/what-sessions...657-e6df815b-938c-4631-96a2-3952af66ece2.html
 
Probably both. :)

'Not keeping story straight', I think, is what he was whinging about most recently.

Manafort tried to contact witnesses. He is going to rot in jail unless he starts singing.
 
cduggles said:
Probably both. :)

'Not keeping story straight', I think, is what he was whinging about most recently.

Manafort tried to contact witnesses. He is going to rot in jail unless he starts singing.
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A really fancy jail cell with all the clandestine heroin you could probably suck a guard's dick for, undoubtedly.

I love all the news stories about his posh jail cell, like lacking freedom is at all desirable.
 
Mueller says Manafort lied after pleading guilty, should be sentenced immediately

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Prosecutors with special counsel Robert S. Mueller III said Monday that Paul Manafort breached his plea agreement by lying repeatedly as they questioned him in the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election.

Manafort denies doing so, and both sides agree that sentencing should be set immediately.

The apparent collapse of Manafort?s cooperation agreement is the latest stunning turnaround in his case, exposing the longtime Republican consultant to more than a decade behind bars after pleading guilty in September on charges of cheating the Internal Revenue Service, violating foreign lobbying laws and attempting to obstruct justice.

The court filing indicated Mueller?s team also had suffered a potential setback, after gaining access to a witness with potential knowledge of several key events relevant to the probe during his tenure with Trump?s campaign from March to August 2016, including a Trump Tower meeting attended by a Russian lawyer and the Republican National Convention.

?After signing the plea agreement, Manafort committed federal crimes by lying to the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Special Counsel?s Office on a variety of subject matters, which constitute breaches of the agreement,? prosecutors wrote. The government will file a detailed sentencing submission to the Probation Department and the Court in advance of sentencing that sets forth the nature of the defendant?s crimes and lies.?
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(Article continues at link)
 
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