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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

US Politics The Mueller Investigation - report is out

Awesome. What do you think about all this?

Trump is fighting a political battle and obviously panicking, while Mueller is coming hard and fast from a judicial standpoint with a team of stellar prosecutors that will undoubtedly get to the unvarnished truth if they are allowed to do so. (And Mueller is obviously not panicking.)

As for your question to me (and there is likely a more diplomatic choice of words, but I fear it would be lost on you), I don't believe your posts indicate a raw knowledge or that gleam of intellectual sophistication that suggest you could engage me in a discussion about many (if any) aspects of the Mueller investigation.

To be clear, I'm not calling you a Nazi.

Edit: I don't think many people care, but declassifying information to try to undermine an investigation based on credible information and being run by Republicans and helmed by Mueller, who unlike Trump has a reputation has a sterling reputation sets a v dangerous precedent.

This epiphany will be the equivalent of the Nunes memo. Nada.
 
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So then you must be well aware of what some people expect to be shown in that FISA application.
Are you ok with them using the fake dossier to secure a warrant against Carter Page?
You no doubt know of the connections between Bruce Ohr (DOJ), wife Nellie, Fusion GPS, Chris Steele, FBI...
Doesn't this wicked web of lies and deceit concern you from a judicial perspective? Or is it anything goes (and we'll ignore it) as long as we can get Trump?

The Nunes memo was very clever because it got the Dems yelling and fighting to keep it classified. Then when they released it, nothing. So now when that happens again they won't take their obstruction as serious.

What if text messages arise that show FBI employees talking about potentially harming a president?

also that wasn't very nice insinuating that I was not qualified enough to discuss this topic. I am incredibly offended.
 
You proved my point by not answering any of my questions, yet I'm happy to answer any that you have.
Saying that I'm stupid after I've schooled you is not a good look
I think very soon the evidence will be undeniable. I know it's a scary proposition because it directly helps Trumps and clears him of wrongdoing with Russians.
 
Australia and the UK are reportedly in panic mode

Holy fuck this is fucking serious

George Papadopolous - daily via Twitter:

Been a hell of a year. Decisions.

"It is a double pleasure to deceive the deceiver"--Machiavelli

I introduced candidate Trump to the Egyptian president during the campaign. A president who's country I actually had deep connections to, and the campaign accepted. I failed to introduce him to Putin.

Furthermore, to put things in context, even with my real contact in Egypt, it was only AFTER I introduced Trump-Sisi that the Egyptian Ambassador hosted me to congratulate me. On the other hand, Alexander Downer, wanted to meet under incredibly suspicious circumstances.

I found it so odd that Downer, who gained notoriety in Australia for wearing women's fish nets, invited me to "order" me to stop "bothering" his good friend David Cameron. And told me my views were hostile to British interests.

So basically, for those paying attention, we have a Clinton friend, connected to the MI6, and private intelligence organizations in London, probing me about my ties to the energy business offshore Israel. Nothing about the US-Australia relationship.

Yet I supposedly told THAT individual about emails. Something I have no recollection ever discussing.

The notion that Downer randomly reached out to me just to have a gin and tonic is laughable. Some organization or entity sent him to meet me. For the sake of our republic and the integrity of this investigation, I think it's time Downer is as exposed as Christoper Steele.

Would be a very very big problem if British intelligence was weopanized against an American citizen.

I love the USA and the brave men and women of the FBI that risk their lives to protect us. I made the mistake to lie to them for wish I am ashamed. On the other hand, I did notify them that I thought Downer was recording me with his phone. I hope that was investigated.

Hons: Senator Burr and Senator Warner, if my lawyers are fine with me testifying, I am more than happy to discuss my suspicious encounters with Alexander Downer; US officials who were reaching out to me around that time, Stefan Halper, "Putin's niece" and of course Joseph Mifsud.

If I do testify, I think it's also important for me to detail my interactions with US intelligence officials from US Embassy, London. Gregory Baker and Terrence Dudley. Both wanted to ingratiate themselves in campaign via myself.

Looking back at my notes: the British ministry of foreign affairs invited me to visit and talk to their officials the same day I met Stefan Halper in London.

While I have never met a Russian official in my life knowingly, the British government liked to meet me quite often throughout the campaign. Including Tobias Ellwood, who was right under Boris Johnson, and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

After reviewing notes again: it seems that two months after a likely MI6 led operation against me in London, with Stefan Halper, the British government decided to deliver me Theresa May's personal congratulatory letter to Trump after he was elected.

Besides the fact that I notified the FBI a year ago about my suspicions that Downer was illegally recording my conversation with him. The lead up to the meeting with Downer in London was even more bizarre.

An Israeli diplomat named Christian cantor, who hated Trump, introduced me to his 'girlfriend' who just happened to be an Australian intel officer and assistant to Downer. Named Erika Thompson. After I humiliate David Cameron in the British press, Downer wants to meet.

There is a lot to come

If I am going to be under scrutiny for contacts with a Maltese prof, the fake niece of Putin, and a Russian think tank analyst, then I definitely should also be for my numerous interactions with western intel and diplomats, right?

The BRITISH (Stefan Halper), AUSTRALIAN (Alexander Downer and Erika Thompson) and TURKISH (Azra Turk, spy working for Halper) all spied on an American citizen and campaign. Obama, Brennan and Clapper knew.

Why was Downer's intelligence officer assistant, ERIKA THOMPSON, spying on me in April 2016....before "the professor" apparently learned of the dirt? She was introduced to me through false pretext in early April 2016. Not good for Australia to be spying on Americans.

Australian oil company, Woodside, was actively competing with American oil companies trying to do business in Israel and Cyprus. I was advising American companies at the time. No wonder Downer wanted to talk oil in London and then began recording me with his phone. Set up.

The British, Australian and Turkish governments all had an interest in sabotaging Trump,s campaign. That is why their nationals were the ones that were sent as spies. This is much more complicated than anyone can imagine. Stay tuned.

I repeat: the British and Australian governments were illegally spying on the Trump Campaign by April 2016. Let that sink in.

Hons: @SenatorBurr and @MarkWarner in the interest of full transparency, and my role in this investigation, it is absolutely critical that I detail my encounters with Charles Tawil, who is listed as a fmr state department source in SA, who provided me with the $10,000 in Israel.

The British and Australian governments' attempt to sabotage the Trump campaign is about to backfire in a spectacular fashion.

The day that BRITISH intelligence source, Stefan Halper, lured me to London so that the British MI6 could spy on the campaign, the British Ministry of Foreign Affairs invited me to their offices to talk about Trump and what a threat him supporting Breexit was.

....edit: more tweets

After reports are finally out that the British and Australian governments were actively spying and trying to sabotage the Trump campaign, those two governments called the president to ask for him not to declassify any FISA documents. Strange.

Alexander Downer will go down in history as a stooge for Clinton who single handedly caused irreparable damage between the USA-Australia. Congrats, buddy.

I love this country too much to have remained silent even in the face of tremendous hurdles ahead.

What makes more sense? The british were illegaly spying on campaign for my non existent ties to russian officials, or my energy business ties to cyprus and israel that threatened british interests?

...

*grabs popcorn*
 
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The way the Mueller thing is going it looks like they can't come up with anything resembling collusion so they are trying to piss him off enough to get them to obstruct the investigation (which is entirely open ended, since there's nothing to investigate they're just going all in on harassing people close to Trump.)

The latest is the NY Times putting out a fake story about Rosenstein today to try to get Trump to fire him, "obstruct" the investigation (into nothing.)

Real stories not reported on MSM foreign interference:

Feinstein had a chinese spy in her inner circle for 2 decades https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/08/01/details-chinese-spy-dianne-feinstein-san-francisco/

Clinton signs over 20% of our uranium as secretary of state, after millions in donations from investors to the Clinton foundation and Bill being paid half a million for a speech in Russia

The whole Awan brothers thing and the missing DNC server
 
Mueller makes rare mention of Trump dossier author. Prosecutors were responding to an indicted Russian company's complaint that the special counsel 'selectively' targeted the firm while giving Steele a pass.

Special counsel Robert Mueller?s team found itself in an odd spot recently ? having to discuss Christopher Steele, the former British spy and author of a fiercely disputed anti-Trump dossier.

Prosecutors were pushed to weigh in on the loaded subject after lawyers for Concord Management ? the Russian company Mueller has accused of helping orchestrate the massive online campaign to sow chaos in America?s democratic process ? argued in August that Mueller had targeted the firm ?selectively? while giving Steele, and others Concord accuses of foreign interference efforts, a pass.

In a document filed Friday night, Mueller?s team responded, arguing that Steele?s actions don't ?remotely compare? to the ?systematic, deceptive effort? by the allegedly Concord-backed Russian social media trolls attempting to interfere in the 2016 election.

It's a rare allusion to Steele by Mueller's team. The former spy has become the subject of fierce attacks by Trump and his allies for the claims in his dossier, which Trump has rejected as fabricated. The dossier alleges a years-long connection between Trump and Russia, leading to a conspiracy to help Trump win the 2016 election. The Justice Department relied ? in part ? on Steele's dossier to help obtain a surveillance warrant in late 2016 on former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page.

Concord?s lawyers had noted that Steele reportedly met with journalists during the election to discuss the information he was gathering for the dossier, which detailed years of links between Trump and Russia, culminating in an alleged conspiracy to tip the election in his favor.

Mueller's team, though, argued that the comparison was disingenuous: ?Acting as an anonymous source for media articles is not similar to conducting 'information warfare against the United States of America.??

"Indeed,? the prosecutors continued, ?Concord does not even attempt to suggest how this individual?s conduct would implicate the lawful functions of any government agency.?

The document then referenced Mueller?s indictment against the firm, which alleged that Concord funded the creation of fake social media profiles in the U.S. with the ?purpose of impairing the lawful functions of the United States government.?

The brief is signed by Mueller; his deputy, Michael Dreeben; Jonathan Kravis, an attorney in the U.S. attorney's office; John Demers, assistant attorney general for the DOJ?s National Security Division; and U.S. Attorney Jessie Liu.

The distinction between Steele and the alleged Russian propaganda operation was part of a brief the prosecutors filed to defend against Concord's claim of ?selective prosecution.? The firm suggested prosecutors targeted Concord for being Russian and let slide other foreign nationals who had made similar offenses.

Republicans have long hammered the Justice Department for using the dossier, unearthing records that showed the company that hired Steele, Fusion GPS, was being financed by the Democratic Party and the law firm representing Hillary Clinton's campaign.

Concord's brief, filed in late August, also cited a POLITICO report about Ukrainian government officials who supported Hillary Clinton, noting that they had posted social media messages critical of Trump. The brief also noted that Middle Eastern officials had offered an "online manipulation campaign" to Trump allies but were similarly not charged with wrongdoing. And it identified foreign nationals who had made improper financial contributions to the campaigns of Jeb Bush and Bernie Sanders.

In its argument about Steele, Concord cited his frequent contact with the Justice Department and dissemination of his "dossier" to media outlets and government officials.

"But no charges have been filed against Steele, and no information has been made public about the government?s efforts to authenticate the 'Trump-Russia Dossier' that Steele disseminated before and after the 2016 presidential election," the company's lawyers argued.

In addition to rejecting that comparison, Mueller argued that the Ukrainian officials cited by Concord had used their actual identities when criticizing Trump ? unlike the alleged Russian effort, which prosecutors say relied on false identities to appear like a grass-roots movement in the United States.

"Deception is an essential element of a conspiracy to defraud the United States," Mueller's team wrote.

Prosecutors also noted that the Middle Eastern offer for an online manipulation campaign also falls short of Concord's alleged conduct.

"[A]n offer does not amount to 'similar conduct' to the conduct charged in the indictment," prosecutors argued. "The defendants here are alleged not to have offered, but to have actually engaged, in the deceptive use of social media for the purpose of impairing the lawful functions of the United States government."

As for the foreign contributions to Bush and Sanders, Mueller's team suggests that at least one instance was a "good-faith mistake," and the other ? "a single FEC complain that has not yet resulted in a criminal prosecution" ? does not give Concord a legitimate grievance.
 
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Trump's attempting to obstruct justice again.

It's hard to believe that anyone could think it was ok for a president to sabotage an investigation into his own campaign.

Can you imagine the moronic outrage from trumpers if "crooked hillary" did the same thing? /puke

WOW 8o

So, Trump is obstructing justice by releasing information? That's your take? Amazing interpretation of reality.

It's an attempt to clear his campaign and expose an investigation based on vapors. If there is anything material to justify the investigation, he'd be sinking his own ship, would he not?

LOL, Hillary? I believe anyone but a Clinton sycophant would be desperate for Hillary to release information - ANYTHING - that could either clear her or show misdeeds. Seriously, silence the conspiracies with facts. It's a simple path to resolve the noise, and one Trump is following.

You're perspective here is AMAZING!.
 
He wants a border wall and no legal system / CRJS reform. Continues to fight war on drugs. Piles onto the deficit; deflated programs to detain illegals. Massive failure. No justice in the USA. I’m not laughing over here.

He works against the grains of justice at almost every attempt.
 
WOW 8o

So, Trump is obstructing justice by releasing information? That's your take? Amazing interpretation of reality.

It's an attempt to clear his campaign and expose an investigation based on vapors. If there is anything material to justify the investigation, he'd be sinking his own ship, would he not?

LOL, Hillary? I believe anyone but a Clinton sycophant would be desperate for Hillary to release information - ANYTHING - that could either clear her or show misdeeds. Seriously, silence the conspiracies with facts. It's a simple path to resolve the noise, and one Trump is following.

You're perspective here is AMAZING!.

*Your

"investigation based on vapors"? What does that mean?
The people from trump's campaign that have already been jailed weren't engaging in criminal activities?

Surely if there is nothing to investigate, it would be all wrapped up by now?

I tend to think that a president trying to shut down an investigation into his own campaign's links to hostile foreign agents is probably trying to obstruct justice. I don't think that is an unreasonable assumption.
 
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Trump had never tried to obstruct the "investigation" he had good reason to fire Rosenstein, Sessions etc but doesn't because it would be considered "obstruction" an "investigation" into nothing. We will know by November for sure, they have been leaking the whole time if they have anything it will be timed for the election. Fortunately Trump is president so if he is not guilty he can just declassify. (And if releasing true information is obstruction in your eyes there is nothing we can debate.)
 
And none of the crimes of the Manafort etc involved Trump unless something else comes up. If you include the Daniels payment it would be on the news 24/7 if that had any teeth.
 
i get your points, but i think it's pretty disingenuous to call this 'an "investigation" into nothing'.

how many convictions has the guy has secured so far?

opinions aside - and we all have 'em - regardless of how insignificant you might think this shit is, it is demonstrably not an investigation into nothing.

i mean, i don't blame russia for electing trump. unless there is evidence that electronic voting systems were hacked and compromised, i personally blame the people that voted for trump for electing him.

but given trump's hard line on certain "law and order" issues, i think what's good for the goose is good for the bloated orange gander.
laws about conspiracy, fraud and violation of electoral finance regulations (and whatever else mueller has been digging around in) apply to trump and his cronies.

i know it is how trump conducts himself - total dishonesty, bluster, gaslighting and outrageous spin - but it doesn't mean truth is no longer relevant.
yes - it's trumps line; the whole thing is a smear, a political witch hunt, he's the victim etc etc - but the reality is that it is a serious investigation that has already put a number of people in prison.

it's not an investigation into nothing, it's not over yet.

i know that trump supporters have trained themselves to overlook what a deranged, spiteful creep trump is, but it's not very clever to overlook acts of treason.

there is something problematic about continuing to support a president who is guilty of treason.

treezy - hypothetically, if trump had lost the election, how would you feel about clinton supporters supporting hillary if she was being investigated for colluding with china (for example) to beat trump?

the bengazi investigation went on for a couple of years, didn't it? how many people were jailed for that fiasco?
don't get me wrong, i think hillary clinton is fucking evil - but i think that if a president is as shady, corrupt and criminal as many think trump could be - they should face the music like all the rest of us.
no matter how much people support trump, they do themselves a disservice by claiming that the investigation is about nothing.

that sort of fanaticism is the sort of thing that enables brutal dictators - except most brutal dictators force people to see them as flawless. the way some trump supporters do it willingly blows my mind. very north-korea-esque.

the truth is that nobody outside of mueller's office has any idea what he knows.
if trump does manage to scuttle the investigation, the global perception would be that america has taken another very frightening step into authoritarian rule. i mention this because i think a lot of trump supporters miss the broader context here; trump is systematically dismantling the USA's democratic institutions.

for your sake - and everybody else's - i hope that doesn't happen, and that justice can be served without political interference from the people being investigated. democracy is a fragile thing, and people need to be vigilant about preserving and protecting it. i'm not being hyperbolic here - it really is that serious.
 
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I'm sure as an "opponent of fascism" you are aware of unscrupulous law enforcement tactics.

It looks to me like Mueller is arresting people to get them to flip whether or not they have any dirt.

For example the "Stormy Daniels campaign finance" from the lawyer appears to be utter bullshit or it would be on TV all day every day (if you have been to America recently you will understand what I mean by this.)

Also I know if my lawyers office was raided I could easily made to look bad. This apparently isn't the case with Trump.
 
And what democratic institutions has Trump dismantled? How much of a democracy do we really have (vote for the uniparty for decades before Trump had some different ideas?)
 
Mueller Ready to Deliver Key Findings in His Trump Probe, Sources Say

(Bloomberg) -- Special Counsel Robert Mueller is expected to issue findings on core aspects of his Russia probe soon after the November midterm elections as he faces intensifying pressure to produce more indictments or shut down his investigation, according to two U.S. officials.

Specifically, Mueller is close to rendering judgment on two of the most explosive aspects of his inquiry: whether there were clear incidents of collusion between Russia and Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign, and whether the president took any actions that constitute obstruction of justice, according to one of the officials, who asked not to be identified speaking about the investigation.

That doesn’t necessarily mean Mueller’s findings would be made public if he doesn’t secure unsealed indictments. The regulations governing Mueller’s probe stipulate that he can present his findings only to his boss, who is currently Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. The regulations give a special counsel’s supervisor some discretion in deciding what is relayed to Congress and what is publicly released.

The question of timing is critical. Mueller’s work won’t be concluded ahead of the Nov. 6 midterm elections, when Democrats hope to take control of the House and end Trump’s one-party hold on Washington.

But this timeline also raises questions about the future of the probe itself. Trump has signaled he may replace Attorney General Jeff Sessions after the election, a move that could bring in a new boss for Mueller. Rosenstein also might resign or be fired by Trump after the election.

...

There’s no indication, though, that Mueller is ready to close up shop, even if he does make some findings, according to former federal prosecutors. Several matters could keep the probe going, such as another significant prosecution or new lines of inquiry. And because Mueller’s investigation has been proceeding quietly, out of the public eye, it’s possible there have been other major developments behind the scenes.

...

There's more in the article about Manafort and Cohen's deals with Mueller, as well as some other stuff, but nothing groundbreaking in terms of findings.
 
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