US Politics The Mueller Investigation - report is out

[Xorkoth]

^^ Have you investigated Trump? Do you have access to intelligence on what's going on here? I don't think it's possible for any of us right now to actually investigate whether Trump had anything to do with Russian collusion. However, people are investigating it, and the truth will come out when the investigation is over. And please don't say anything about a witch hunt or wasting taxpayer dollars... investigations of this magnitude typically take years. And the case is built and kept private until it's complete - you don't want the people you're investigating to know what you have on them - at which point charges are filed or they say, alright, no wrongdoing happened.

Anyway, basically I entirely agree with Jess. I don't believe a word out of a politician's mouth, and in this political climate I wouldn't ever expect a party to not have an agenda when investigating one of its own. So you gotta take this article with a huge grain of salt. Maybe they're right, and maybe you're right about the whole thing, but this article does nothing to prove that.

 

[alasdairm]

Honestly, I wouldn't be completely convinced. But that also depends on if I had investigated the issue myself and formed my own conclusions.

right. so you'd understand if i'm not completely convinced by the news? that's why the mueller enquiry is important. he's admired and trusted by many democrats and republicans.

alasdair

 

[JGrimez]

right. so you'd understand if i'm not completely convinced by the news? that's why the mueller enquiry is important. he's admired and trusted by many democrats and republicans.

Public admiration means nothing. We're talking about some of the most corrupt and underhanded people in the world. And I know that Mueller is compromised or corrupt because of what he oversaw during the Uranium One deal.
Would you be upset if we discovered that the Russia probe was based on nothing and was actually an attempted coup to remove a POTUS?

I don't think it's possible for any of us right now to actually investigate whether Trump had anything to do with Russian collusion. However, people are investigating it, and the truth will come out when the investigation is over. And please don't say anything about a witch hunt or wasting taxpayer dollars... investigations of this magnitude typically take years

Heard those same excuses for so long now. The equivalent of "we have zero evidence, so just wait and see". There's not even a crime to accuse them of. Considering how much Trump's enemies wanted to stop him, and also that he was being wiretapped/surveiled during and after the election, I don't believe they have any evidence of collusion - which isn't even a crime and now Comey is saying had nothing to do with it.

What is the crime or the collusion that launches the investigation?

Collusion is not a word that I'm familiar with. You open a counterintelligence investigation to understand are any Americans in cahoots with the foreign intelligence activities of an adversary nation

I find you guilty of cahoots.

 

[Xorkoth]

Heard those same excuses for so long now. The equivalent of "we have zero evidence, so just wait and see". There's not even a crime to accuse them of. Considering how much Trump's enemies wanted to stop him, and also that he was being wiretapped/surveiled during and after the election, I don't believe they have any evidence of collusion - which isn't even a crime and now Comey is saying had nothing to do with it.

This is your speculation, and I've got my speculation. Why is yours valid and mine is not? There in fact IS a crime to potentially accuse them of: collusion with Russia to manipulate the election. That's a crime, and it is alleged, and it's being investigated. You speculate that you "don't believe" they have any evidence. So, like I said, you don't know. So it's nonsense to try to say the investigation should be stopped prematurely. There is no possible way you'd be singing this same tune about someone like, say, Hillary or Obama in the same scenario.

And yeah yeah I know you want Hillary to be investigated. Yeah, we should investigate Hillary. But that doesn't mean Trump gets different treatment than what you would want someone else to have.

 

[Xorkoth]

Just saw this Newsweek article when I was checking my email:

Russian Lawyer in Trump Tower Meeting Was Kremlin 'Informant,' Natalia Veselnitskaya Now Admits
Newsweek Josh Keefe,Newsweek 2 hours 22 minutes ago


Russian Lawyer in Trump Tower Meeting Was Kremlin 'Informant,' Natalia Veselnitskaya Now Admits
Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya was a Russian government informant when she met with Trump campaign officials at Trump Tower in 2016, she admitted in an interview with NBC News slated to air Friday. She had previously denied she had any ties to the Russian government.

“I am a lawyer, and I am an informant,” she told NBC News, according to a New York Times report. “Since 2013, I have been actively communicating with the office of the Russian prosecutor general.”

Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s probe of ties between the Russian government and the Trump campaign has been investigating the 2016 meeting, which emails show was scheduled by the Trump camp in hopes of obtaining damaging information on Hillary Clinton. The meeting was attended by Donald Trump Jr., senior White House adviser Jared Kushner, and Paul Manafort, the former Trump campaign chief who Mueller charged with a litany of offenses, including money laundering and charges.

Trending: ‘Fortnite’ Season 4 Teaser Adds Wonder Woman Skin, Is DC Involved?

Veselnitskaya said she was working for Yuri Chaika at the time of the meeting, the prosecutor general of Russia and a “top Kremlin official,” according to the New York Times. In November, Veselnitskaya told the Senate Judiciary Committee that she had “no relationship with Mr. Chaikia, his representatives and his institutions other than those related to my professional functions as a lawyer.”

But emails obtained by a former oil tycoon and vocal critic of President Vladimir Putin show Veselnitskaya worked closely with Chaika’s office to help defend a real estate firm owned by a Russian businessman against Justice Department civil fraud charges, even though she said she was acting independently as an attorney on behalf of the firm, Prevezon Holdings. The Justice Department eventually settled with the firm for $6 million, but Prevezon has yet to pay.

Donald Trump Jr. has said the meeting with Veselnitskaya did not result in the damaging information he was hoping for.

“It quickly became clear that she had no meaningful information,” the president’s son said in a statement last year, adding that Veselnitskaya wanted to discuss adoption policy. “It became clear to me that this was the true agenda all along and that the claims of potentially helpful information were a pretext for the meeting.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-lawyer-trump-tower-meeting-143230232.html

With actual charges brought on several Trump administration members, which includes guilty pleas (admissions of guilt), and stuff like this, it would be madness to stop the investigation without completing it.

 

[alasdairm]

Would you be upset if we discovered that the Russia probe was based on nothing and was actually an attempted coup to remove a POTUS?

of course.

alasdair

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah I'll add to that since I didn't see that comment to reply to it... yes, I'd be upset, if this whole Russia thing was a lie to try to remove a President.

 

[spacejunk]

same here, but it's not. that's the point

 

[JGrimez]

There in fact IS a crime to potentially accuse them of: collusion with Russia to manipulate the election.

Wrong. Collusion is not a crime.
Conspiracy is a crime lol but if you suggest conspiracy you sound crazy. There is no evidence of collusion. The previous administration colluded with Russians. They're projecting.

So it's nonsense to try to say the investigation should be stopped prematurely. There is no possible way you'd be singing this same tune about someone like, say, Hillary or Obama in the same scenario.

It seems to have run its course. Mueller actually suggested indicting a dozen Russians for running a troll farm? That was embarrassing. None of the charges or pleas have related to Trump campaign colluding with Russia to influence election.

And yeah yeah I know you want Hillary to be investigated. Yeah, we should investigate Hillary. But that doesn't mean Trump gets different treatment than what you would want someone else to have.

Investigation follows a crime for eg: Benghazi, Classified info on private server, Fast&Furious gun running, Uranium One etc...

With actual charges brought on several Trump administration members, which includes guilty pleas (admissions of guilt), and stuff like this, it would be madness to stop the investigation without completing it.

Actual charges? Any related to "collusion" with Russia? Thank you for the clarifying what a guilty plea is.

same here, but it's not. that's the point

I can't say I'm completely sure about a lot, but I am sure that this Russia investigation is a coup to remove Trump. We've got some pretty solid proof by now. Text messages between FBI agents discussing it. They're holding onto quite a few of those Stzrok/Page texts, a few just got released but heavily redacted. Allegedly some of these unreleased texts actually contain them discussing a possible assassination. If that comes out, then shit will hit the fan. How would that affect the FBI's credibility?

 

[JGrimez]

Clapper Busted Leaking Dossier Details To CNN's Jake Tapper, Lying To Congress About It
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018...ails-cnns-jake-tapper-lying-congress-about-it

Former Director of National Intelligence (DNI) turned CNN commentator James Clapper not only leaked information related to the infamous "Steele dossier" to CNN's Jake Tapper while Clapper was in office - it appears he also lied about it to Congress, under oath. Clapper was one of the "two national security officials" cited in CNN's report -published minutes after Buzzfeed released the full Steele dossier.

The revelation that Clapper was responsible for leaking details of both the dossier and briefings to two presidents on the matter is significant, because former Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) director James Comey wrote in one of four memos that he leaked that the briefing of Trump on salacious and unverified allegations from the dossier was necessary because "CNN had them and were looking for a news hook." -The Federalist


​

So Comey said that Trump needed to be briefed on the Dossier's allegations since CNN "had them" - because James Clapper, the Director of National Intelligence at the time, provided that information to the same network he now works for.

 

[spacejunk]

He belongs in jail.
If not for accessory to electoral corruption and fraud, then for money-laundering and/or sexual assault.
I'm not pretending that i know everything there is to know about the investigation, but i think it's pretty obvious to most people that the investigation is being carried o

I'm more confident than ever that i'm right about this - he's running out of friends, of political allies, and of lawyers prepared to tarnish their reputation by representing him.
You can talk until you're blue in the face about Mueller's lack of integrity - but it's funny when trump supporters go on and on about integrity, because you don't seem to expect it from your guy...
I think trump is shit out of luck

 

[JGrimez]

I think trump is shit out of luck

He's been shit out of luck for quite some time now.
Although it seems that the Russia conspiracy theory is seriously unraveling.


CONFIRMED: Former Feinstein Staffer Raised $50 Million, Hired Fusion GPS And Christopher Steele After 2016 Election
https://truepundit.com/confirmed-fo...s-and-christopher-steele-after-2016-election/

A declassified congressional report confirms prior reporting by The Federalist that Daniel Jones, a former staffer for Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), hired Fusion GPS and Christopher Steele after the 2016 election to push the anti-Trump Russian collusion narrative.

According to the report, Jones, who runs an investigative outfit called the Penn Quarter Group (PQG), told the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) in March of 2017 that he had retained the services of Fusion GPS and Christopher Steele to ?continue exposing Russian interference? in the 2016 election. Steele is the former British spy who authored the infamous unverified dossier of allegations against President Donald Trump.

Although Jones? name is redacted in the report, the biographical details plus previous reporting on the matter make clear that he is the individual referenced. The report also revealed that Jones told federal investigators that he had raised $50 million from ?7 to 10 wealthy donors located primarily in New York and California.?

 

[JessFR]

It's an interesting world we live in. Where instead of trying to have an unbiased press, we have nothing but several different completely biased news outlets, and everyone just reads whichever tells them what they want to hear.

So everyone has their own version of reality. Anything they get from their press is the truth, and anything from any other is fake.

Being able to determine what's likely true as opposed to fake is a very important skill to master that requires critical thinking and a lot of effort. Most people would rather spend that time looking at cat photos and reaffirming their existing beliefs.

Oh well. I find that once you stop caring what happens life gets a lot easier. Just get some popcorn and enjoy the show, secure in the knowledge that if you burn the idiots who lit the flames burn with you.

 

[JGrimez]

Being able to determine what's likely true as opposed to fake is a very important skill to master that requires critical thinking and a lot of effort.

You can say that again.


Let's look at the FBI:
Jim Rybicki, chief of staff and senior counselor - FIRED.
James Baker, general counsel - FIRED.
Andrew McCabe, deputy director - FIRED.
James Comey, director - FIRED.
Bill Priestap, Head of Counterintelligence and Strzok's boss - cooperating witness
Peter Strzok, Deputy Assistant Director of the Counterintelligence - cooperating witness
Lisa Page, attorney with the FBI's Office of the General Counsel - cooperating witness

Can justice be served when the FBI is compromised?

 

[JGrimez]

You called the dossier, "unverified, salacious (ph)." Why did you use that to the FISA court to ask for surveillance for Carter Page? Not only use it, but you led with it. A bulk of that FISA application deals with that dossier, why?

You know, that's not my recollection, Brett, and I don't know that the FISA application's been released. My recollection was, it was part of a broader mosaic of facts that were laid before the FISA judge to obtain a FISA warrant.

So the Republicans' issue is how the data was obtained that was used to justify wiretapping Trump. Brett Baier interviewed Comey who claimed he did not know where the dossier came from. This was a lie as he couldn't come out and say the Democrats funded it. He also lied and said that Republicans (Washington Free Beacon) were the original source of the dossier. They were conducting opposition research (which is not illegal and both sides engage in it), they however were not the source of the actual dossier. Comey attempts to muddy the waters instead of stating that hiring the British spy was exclusively a Democrat operation. This was a partisan hit job against the Republicans. Comey knows this.

Comey claimed the dossier wasn't needed to get the warrant. So why include it then? When you apply for a warrant you want to include the minimum amount of information possible to obtain the warrant. If they didn't need the dossier to get the warrant they would not have included it. But they did include it, which means they did need it. The dossier was later proven false so they did not actually have probable cause. Which means Comey is in big trouble.

I'm gonna put a disclaimer here as to another possible theory:
So Trump interviewed Mueller to potentially be FBI Director, the day before he was assigned to the special counsel.
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/13/politics/trump-robert-mueller-fbi-director-interview/index.html
However the maximum time an FBI director can serve is 10 years, and Obama actually extended Mueller's term limit by 2 years.
So why would Trump interview Mueller if he couldn't actually hire him? And also Mueller knew he was going to head up the SC.
So it's possible that Trump struck a deal with Mueller here. They both know what Mueller is guilty of, so Trump may have asked him to keep this Russia probe going as an ongoing distraction.

 

[cduggles]

^ Your presentation bias is v obvious.

 

[Xorkoth]

Wrong. Collusion is not a crime.

Okay so are you saying that you think it's okay to collude with the Russians to interfere with the results of an American democratic election? If not, then what sort of collusion is it that is okay? By suggesting that Russian collusion isn't a crime, you clearly suggest that it's okay. In what world can you, who so strongly condemn other Americans for giving Russians back their enriched uranium, possibly condone election interference by the same nation?

Do you think it's okay to appoint a head of the Environmental Protection Agency that tries to repeal greenhouse gas emission laws from year 2022 vehicles and on? Is that what we need?

 

[JGrimez]

I also forgot to add:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...not-think-flynn-lied-despite-guilty-plea.html

House Intelligence Committee Republicans, in their newly released report concluding their Russia investigation, seemed to back up reports that FBI agents did not think ex-White House national security adviser Michael Flynn lied to them ? despite his eventual guilty plea for making false statements.

So why would Flynn plead guilty to something that the FBI agents didn't even think he was guilty of?
Did he take a bullet in order to expose the unlawful surveillance that was going on? (can thank Adm Mike Rogers for informing Trump of all this)

^ Your presentation bias is v obvious.

Yes I am biased. But I do try to remain objective. If I stated anything factually inaccurate please do let me know.

Okay so are you saying that you think it's okay to collude with the Russians to interfere with the results of an American democratic election? If not, then what sort of collusion is it that is okay? By suggesting that Russian collusion isn't a crime, you clearly suggest that it's okay. In what world can you, who so strongly condemn other Americans for giving Russians back their enriched uranium, possibly condone election interference by the same nation?

No you're putting words in my mouth. I was just saying that there's no crime known as 'collusion'. It's important when it comes to throwing around serious accusations.
There is a crime known as 'conspiracy' but the media were never going to call it Trump/Russia conspiracy as it would get labeled the 'conspiracy theory' that it is.
Never condoned election interference, it is extremely hypocritical that the US is making such a big deal out of it (in reality it's just an explanation as to why the establishment candidate lost), and the only solid evidence they've uncovered so far is a few Russians that paid for some FB advertising, and it seems that these groups were more looking to sow discord as opposed to promoting a specific candidate.
So what exact interference are you concerned about?

I am personally more concerned with issues like:
Obama/Hillary selling 20% of US uranium capacity to the Russian government (not just handing back a sample - please address this properly if you're going to mention it)
And Hillary's deplorable campaign which funneled money into the pockets of Russian government officials through a British spy for unverified information that they used as a basis for a surveillance wiretap.
^those are examples of collusion.

Do you think it's okay to appoint a head of the Environmental Protection Agency that tries to repeal greenhouse gas emission laws from year 2022 vehicles and on? Is that what we need?

Possibly that is the right move to make. Maybe that is a terrible law? The difference now is that the public is going to be able to peruse the scientific data which goes into EPA decisions. Previously this information was kept secret and we simply had to trust them. Don't know about you but I am an advocate of increased transparency and accountability.

 

[JGrimez]

Fruit Of The Poisonous Tree? Longtime Hillary Clinton Advisor Lays Out Why Mueller Probe Is ?Corrupt? (VIDEO)
http://thegatewaypundit.com/2018/04...-lays-out-why-mueller-probe-is-corrupt-video/

?Well, look, I spent a year fighting Ken Starr and I think any reasonable person looking at what happened here says this investigation had no foundation and whatever foundation it had was not only wrong but corrupt. I think Christopher Steele was part of the FBI when he leaked, lied, and then was fired. Page and Strzok are clearly biased. The head of the FBI was clearly biased. The head of the CIA appeared to be doing illegal leaks as well. This whole thing was corrupt. There is a doctrine called the fruits of the poisonous tree, that says when investigations get started like, this when searches and seizures are done on this basis, they should be thrown out. I think that?s probably the best way to stop this thing because, otherwise, we are going all the way to the end and I don?t think we should waste another year here.?

For those familiar with Mueller, the blunt-force approach taken toward the GSA is something of a signature of Mueller and his heavy-handed associates like Andrew Weissmann. As I have previously written, Mueller has a controversial record in attacking attorney-client privilege as well as harsh tactics against targets. [?]

It is important to note that Mueller?s move takes his investigation into uncertain legal territory and may ultimately create some new law in his favor. Then again it might not. The question is why Mueller would take the risk. [?]

This could ultimately fall into the category of being careful what you ask for. Once again, the Mueller team showed little hesitation or circumspection in plowing into this controversial area. It is the same attitude that led to the reversals of Weissmann at the cost of millions (and ruined lives) in failed prosecutions. If the evidence was improperly seized, it could contaminate later evidence derived from it in a ?fruit of the poisonous tree? theory. Mueller would not be the first to face such a cascading problem of contamination. [?]

However, if he proceeds to an indictment, he may have created a poison pill factor where indictments could be brought but prove unprosecutable.
​

​

 

[cduggles]

Yes I am biased. But I do try to remain objective. If I stated anything factually inaccurate please do let me know.

I'm a moderator, not your "fact"-checker.

And you don't read what I post, whereas as I do read the twisted up things you do, so that's really all I can impart to you.