Science The most racist people are also the least likely to recognize their own racism, according to a new study

[Xorkoth]

Again: Yes.
You are evil too. As am I. Our hearts are above all else deceitful and desperately wicked.
Racism is an illusion. An excuse. A lie.

Did you grow up Catholic? Maybe you're evil, but you're wrong that everyone is. There are a lot of good people who are not deceitful and desperately wicked. There are a lot of people who have no desire to treat someone else badly and do not decide to take out their shit on an entire group of people.

Do you believe any bigotry exists?

 

[Derschieber]

Did you grow up Catholic?

Not at all. I think you've made yourself clear. People are good, even when they're throwing rocks at children or having a good old lynching, with glee in their eyes. It's good people who are making an innocent mistake because some kind of brainwashing.
Gas a few Jews, not my fault...someone made me do it...Others did it, so I thought it's the right thing to do.
Your so-called "bigotry" (phoniness) exists here and now. You believe you would never do such things, right? Because you're somehow better than all those (millions of) other people who did aha. Only you're not. You are just the same. You and me both. Desperately wicked. We are quick to anger. Our feet are swift to shed blood. We lie, we cheat. We are phony af. Pretending it isn't so, is an act of grave phoniness (evil) right there. Racism is an illusion. It is phoniness.
Shadowmeister. Friend. Whatever evil shit you've done, I've done worse. I am not proud of that.

 

[Xorkoth]

Well I respect your opinion but I disagree. Yes, I've done things that weren't nice, everyone has. But that's not me, and it's not the people I'm close with, and tons of other people I meet. I am not quick to anger. I have never even hit anyone, I've lied, for sure, and cheated, though I do my best to never do those things now. I don't think everyone is as rotten at the core as you say.

The problem is that morality is relative. Religion often tells people to do terrible things, and out of fear of retribution in the afterlife, people hate others, for example, Christians who fear and hate homosexuals and trans people. If those people had grown up having a different belief system instilled into them, would they still hate homosexuals and trans people? What reason would anyone have to hate other groups of people if not for indoctrination into a culture that believes that those attitudes are morally correct. People are taught to hate and fear others. SOME people are just cruel regardless. I met this kid a few weeks ago, the 11 year old son of my friend's friend. This kid is scary. He tortures animals, he takes every opportunity to hurt people that he can, and you can see the satisfaction in his eyes. But that's not how everyone is. But many people never leave the cultural pocket they grew up in, and if every single person your whole life told you that black people are gonna rape your women and steal from you and whatever else people say, and that they're the enemy and you should fear them, chances are you're going to grow up to be racist, hating and fearing a race of humans because of deeply held preconceived notions. Not regarding them as individuals but as "those people we hate". Some people are able to think enough for themselves to escape that programming but some aren't. Beliefs you were indoctrinated with while young are extremely difficult to see outside of because they've shaped your entire worldview. That is what racism (and other bigotry) is. Those people may become what we think of as evil, but had they been raised differently most of them wouldn't have. Yes, it's an evil act to hurt other people, but I don't think that makes us inherently and irrevocably evil as a species. I'm not trying to excuse what people do, I'm just trying to paint a realistic picture of how these attitudes come to be, and that the thought process of most racists/sexists/etc isn't "oh man, I really just want to hurt someone. I know! I'll pretend to be a "racist" so I can justify hurting all these kinds of people". It's not like that. It's more like "my whole life everyone around me has told me how dangerous and inferior these people are, I hate them, they've caused our problems".

 

[Derschieber]

The problem is that morality is relative.

Your problem is that morality is not relative, and hence you are evil. You don't get to decide. But you do it anyway. Which is the very definition of being rotten at the core.
Every pedophile shares your way of thinking. Every rapist, murderer, robber, thief. We all do it. Much more so than we are willing to admit to ourselves. We are deliberately blind to much of our wickedness, whilst having a keen eye for the transgressions of others around us. I know you can not see this, which is exactly what I'm pointing out.
A child does not need to be taught to lie, cheat, steal. Without discipline, a child becomes a monster in every regard.

Religion often tells people to do terrible things, and out of fear of retribution in the afterlife, people hate others, for example, Christians who fear and hate homosexuals and trans people.

No...just no. You are projecting in the extreme. Further down you talk about people growing up where they are constantly told lies about Blacks (or whoever) and thus they learn to be afraid and hateful - conditioning etc.

It is YOU who is conditioned like that. The things you are saying about a specific group of people (Christians) are outrageous, slanderous lies, full of bile, hate and outlandish delusions.
Don't you ever wonder why you would say such crazy stuff about people? How all that poison got into your mind? Who put it there? How did you become oblivious to this?
I'm not shitting you !! I wouldn't do that.
You're doing exactly what you described in others, and unaware that it's happening. Get a 2nd opinion, and do yourself a favor, by not picking another victim of your programming.
To be consistent, I have to tell you that I hold you responsible for your actions/behaviors. Unlike you, I maintain that you, like everyone else knows what you are doing.
Which brings me back to the first point.
You're above all else deceitful and desperately wicked. Pretending it isn't so, and projecting our wickedness onto the people who we love to hate might work to fool ourselves, but more is expected from us.
I may ask you at another time what it is you think Christianity is telling people to make them do terrible things...etc etc. It is much better for you to ask yourself those questions. Test your answers and let the results be hard evidence of what I have described here.
You willingly (eagerly) allowed yourself to be conditioned to hate, you choose to project, lie and slander a group, then excuse yourself via your own subjective morality which declares you not guilty of anything much, and reinforce your sustained ignorance. You feel proud of the good person you pretend to be, whilst acting in exactly the way you condemn in others.
Rotten to the core my friend. Rotten to the core.
Me too btw. #metoo lol

 

[Shady's Fox]

A child does not need to be taught to lie, cheat, steal. Without discipline, a child becomes a monster in every regard. No...just no. You are projecting in the extreme. Further down you talk about people growing up where they are constantly told lies about Blacks (or whoever) and thus they learn to be afraid and hateful - conditioning etc. It is YOU who is conditioned like that.

I don't wanna get into the thread at all but just want to point out something.

I like how you formulate it 'A child doesn't ' so there's no obligation which's true but again depends, in most cases they do it for family as I used, to feed our playground back in the day, now I got them all a warm blanket and a roof. Dunno how you were raised, where, if you had a family at one point or not and if they were biological or adoptive, if you were poor or rich. Either case to make it short as possible, some that I drew from my childhood.. 'If you are born in a poor family isn't their fault, it's your fault if you didn't progressed. Any poor family will provide you at least a cup of water, a slice of butter salt bread and a candle, you have a chance if you develop a mentality to get out of anything. I have friends like myself raised in ghettos and most of them now finished their collegue, have their own tree & colour. As for me? I got out good, I finished the art school, met a woman there and that woman now's my daughter mother. She came from the same situation. All this philosophy son doesn't do you any good if you can't put those words into actions and those actions into principles. Okay.

 

[Xorkoth]

The things you are saying about a specific group of people (Christians) are outrageous, slanderous lies, full of bile, hate and outlandish delusions.

I was clearly using it as an example (which is why I used, as part of the line you quoted, "for example"). I don't think and have never thought all Christians are that way. I grew up Christian, I didn't move away from it until I was 17/18 years old and then only because I had some other experiences and realized it's just one of many world religions and that the truth is somewhere else. The vast majority of Christians I know are lovely, kind people. I have no problem with Christians, I only have a problem with the destructive ideology that the religion in some forms has, which some people use to promote hatred against others. I could have inserted Islam instead of Christianity and it would have been a better example because of the extremists murdering people all over in the name of their religion, but they are a minority and I'm not trying to say all people following Islam are that way. My mother is one of the best people I know and she's very religious, yet has worked to (successfully) turn her church "reconciling" which means they openly accept gay members and even ministers. You're putting words in my mouth. I don't think all of any people are anything. I just think there are ideologies that indoctrinate people into hate, through fear, be it through religion or nationalism or anything else. And that if these same people were brought up without a fear-based ideology that targets specific groups, they would not end up prejudiced against those groups.

Your retort to my post is so intense that it seems like you're just trying to fuck with me. Also your claim that racism isn't real, that it is not the product of culture, is flabbergasting to me. Do you honestly believe that (to use just one example) white people growing up in slavery times, who grew up being told that black people were less than human, that they were there to serve you, that they were your property, did not have a much, much higher chance of being prejudiced against black people compared to people today? Of course prejudice/bigotry is taught. It's taught either through the parents/community, or it's taught through personal experience (for example, maybe some kid who was traumatized by people of a certain race growing up is going to turn into a bigot). People don't just say to themselves, hmm, I really want to cause some people pain right now, who should I choose... blacks, Hispanics, whites, asians... I guess I'll go with asians. Maybe next week it's blacks!

I'm wracking my brain trying to figure out what group of people I hate, and I can't come up with it. I wish everyone could get along, be happy, and have everything they need. You presume to know a lot about others, but maybe, like everyone, you're blinded by your own experience of life. I'm sorry but I don't accept that everyone is rotten to the core. Believing myself a good person does not make me a hypocrite or deceitful. I work hard to be a good person because I think it's the right thing to do, to do to others what you would want them to do to you (quoting Jesus there, one of the many beautiful messages he preached). I know a lot of other good people, too. Of course I've done things to cause people pain, I even did it on purpose when I was a kid (to my sister, and to this one kid at school). No one is perfect. I learned from those experiences and I try really hard to not cause anyone pain.

A child does not need to be taught to lie, cheat, steal. Without discipline, a child becomes a monster in every regard.

Yes, children can be monsters and need to be taught to be good people, otherwise they're just going to do whatever to survive like every other animal. So good is also taught, the same as evil. If you can admit children have to be taught to be good, then how can you insist that children can't be taught to be evil?

 

[Derschieber]

Your retort to my post is so intense that it seems like you're just trying to fuck with me.

Hi Shadow
Sorry you got that impression. I wasn't trying to do that.
Consider what you had said:

"Religion often tells people to do terrible things, and out of fear of retribution in the afterlife, people hate others, for example, Christians who fear and hate homosexuals and trans people."

The overall message is that homosexuals & trans are feared and hated by Christians, whose religion tells them to do terrible things lest they suffer retributions in the afterlife.
I am not aware of any Christian doctrine that involves the doing of "terrible things" or fearing & hating others for any reasons, least of all divine threats of punishments in the afterlife. I have never met any such Christians, and apparently, neither have you.
Not even the harshest bible critics believe that the Bible teaches any such things.

And yet you said this about Christianity and Christians, in an off-hand way perhaps, but you knew what you were doing. Sure, you explained about your mum, and the vast majority of those who you know are not like that etc...but only when your statement came under scrutiny.

In the same manner, slave owners, when placed under scrutiny, are likely to admit that yes...slaves are human too, and not deserving of such treatment, and how the vast majority of slaves are actually no worse than any other people aha aha.

Like you, every slave owner knows what they are doing, but they do it anyways, because like you, they too have decided to rebel against God and His standards.
You have exchanged the truth for a lie. For example: Morality is subjective. According to your newfangled "truth" about morality, keeping slaves is not wrong for those who have decided it is not wrong. It's up the individual to decide morality. You may disagree with slaving, but so what? It's subjective.

Needless to say, you understand the problem with subjective morality. you know it is a lie, and you know that this lie can be used against you - for example, if you are forced into slavery, and when you complain that the way you are being treated is wrong, the slavers simply shrug it off by saying "morality is subjective".

You point out that you work hard to be a good person. I believe you, and I respect that. But if you were a good person, you would not need to work hard to be a good person.
You HAVE TO work hard at doing good, because like all people, you are rotten to the core. Doing the right thing does not come easily to us. It is never easy.
To the contrary. Doing the wrong thing is easy. Doing wrong requires no effort at all.

Reg. "... how can you insist that children can't be taught to be evil?"
You misunderstood. My point is that Children do not need to be taught to do evil. It comes naturally. I agree that children can be taught to do evil, and they certainly are.

When you feel the urge to slander Christianity, try to remember that Christians built the greatest civilization on earth. Christianity built Schools, education for all, Hospitals and welfare to look after the poor, needy and frail.
It was the belief and consensus of Christianity that gave birth to modern science, democracy, equality under the law, individual responsibility & freedom, the separation of Church & State. It was Christians who abolished slavery, not only in the West but in all the world.

If you must hate someone, hate me lol. I probably deserve it, and won't hold it against you friend

 

[Xorkoth]

Okay, I see your points. I think this has gotten sidetracked, however. I was using some implementations of Christianity as an example of how ideologies impact human behavior, and Christianity came to mind as a relatable example. Think on the Crusades and the Inquisition, and the violent enforcement of the religion in the era of imperialism, if you want to see an example of Christianity inspiring terrible behavior. But let's stop talking about Christianity, because the point I was trying to make to you originally was to refute your claim that racism does not exist, that it is just an excuse. Okay, let's say it IS just an excuse for people to hate others. If that is the case, then it still exists. it's still an attitude that is taught and passed down. perhaps those people who are racists would have ended up hating different people, but they didn't, they grew up to hate <insert ethnicity or group here>, because they were taught to. The reason I am insistent about this is because suggesting racism doesn't exist suggests that the people impacted by racism are not, in fact, impacted. Which is hurtful and destructive.

You say all people will do wrong unless taught otherwise. Well, when I think about it more deeply, you may be right. I don't think people are rotten to the core, as you put it, but I do think that, like all animals, humans will act in ways that can be quite barbaric, left to their own devices. The fact that some people work to be good people and succeed, and go through their lives not hating groups of people, and not causing pain to others very much, or at least try their best not to and occasionally make mistakes, suggests that some people are raised under ideologies that do not perpetuate hate and violence. Were the world to adopt ideologies like this, then, instead of ideologies of hate, the world could be a better place for everyone and we could get out of this "us vs them" mindset. Saying that racism doesn't exist is not going to get us anywhere towards that goal. I think (I hope) you can agree that such a world is a good goal to work towards.

I don't hate you, by the way, not at all, it just frustrates me when people try to deny that serious problems like racism don't exist.

 

[w01fg4ng]

It's important to recognize our own racism, in ourselves, in order to overcome racism.

Everyone has some form of racism to deal with, it's up to the individual (mostly white ppl) if they choose to take advantage of the system holding them up or help remove white privilege from our culture. Minorities have been in this fight from the beginning. It's time we all catch up to them.

 

[JGrimez]

This headline sums up the Left.

They're way too focused on race and identity politics.