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The Ketamine NMDA, Na Mg and amphetamine interaction thread

crOOk

crOOk

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Hi guys. I recently discovered an amazing phenomenom that occurs when I dose ketamine a little while after dosing amphetamine.

I have been on a dose of 10-30mg racemic amphetamine sulfate per day for the past few weeks. I also occasionally consume larger amounts of amphetamine at parties.
I will usually feel awake for 6-8 hours and then get really sleepy a few hours later. Especially with more frequent usage these crashes are more pronounced.

Now this is what happens when I dose some ketamine (20mg will do the trick, I have done larger amounts as well, up to 150mg of the s isomer) a few hours into the tweak experience:

First I will experience regular ketamine effects, when this wears off I will get a huge increase in energy, just like I had done another dose of amphetamine. This "boost" will last not only until the amp should have worn off, but far longer. By experience (5 trials so far) it will be very easy to stay up for 48 hours without redosing neither amphetamine nor ketamine!!!! Like I said, tiny doses do the trick for me, say T+00:00=20mg amp and T+04:00=20mg ketamine.

So with these tiny doses it will be no problem at all to stay awake for 48 hours while I would usually just fall asleep after ~10-12 hours. Even if I sleep in between I will feel extremely hyped up on the next day. My friends will notice this. I should add that these effects are not related solely to the ketamine, I have quite a lot of experience with ketamine IM (also pcp) and never experienced this sort of boost/afterglow.

So do you guys have any idea what causes this? Does ketamine block certain enzymes? Does ketamine effect dopamine receptors directly? Does it react with amphetamine in some weird way (like coke and ethyl alcohol)? Is it related to ketamine's effects on NMDA receptor activity? Is it related to ketamine's effect on AMPA receptor activity? What the fuck is going on?!

Note: Since ketamine metabolism is effected by the method of administration, I should mentioned that I dose both substances intranasally.
 
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I found this:
http://www.amphetamines.com/misc/amphetket.html

(1) amphetamine attenuated the impairment of working memory produced by ketamine; (2) amphetamine and ketamine had additive effects on thought disorder, arousal, and euphoria; and (3) amphetamine and ketamine had less-than-additive effects on psychosis.
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Doesn't really tell me much about the mechanisms that are working their voodoo magic here.

http://antidepressantfacts.com/modules/news/

The most recent study, from the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH), backed up a previous study that showed ketamine blocks a receptor called NMDA on brain cells. But unlike the previous study, researchers this time learned that blocking this receptor increases the activity of another receptor, AMPA, which is crucial for ketamine’s rapid antidepressant actions.
Click to expand...
 
I have noticed the same thing with K+amphetamine or K+methamphetamine.

K+ DOC had effects than seem to exponentially increase each others qualities.
 
Also, I should add that I had smoked some DMT on ketamine recently and it lasted way longer than usually. The peak duration was longer and the comedown was waaay stretched out. What the fuck?!
 
I don't think that's too surprising, I guess. Mixing drugs, especially psychedelics, ime, generally produces a longer lasting, and stronger experience.

no idea why though. I don't think it's a metabolic issue, though it might be.

amphetamines have MAOI qualities and will definitely lengthen, and likely increase, the effects of drugs destroyed by MAO.

I don't think it's a strong enough effect to make DMT active orally, it should be for smoked DMT.
 
Mmmm, it was smoked dmt. But I'm more concerned about the Amp+K issue. It's really surprising to me. K isn't metabolized by MAO's is it??
 
no, it goes through the hepatic microsomal system. I don't really know what that is, but that's what this says.
 
K definitely has significant effects on dopamine. Also it is interesting to note that ketamine reduces tolerance to amphetamines, perhaps it is related to this in some way?

Keep in mind that staying up for 48 hours on amphetamine is not at all uncommon. Many individuals are very sensetive to amp and can go that long on as little as 20 mg.
 
I have a long history of Hardcore depression.

Currently Im taking 200mg Zoloft, 20-25mg dex amphet (twice a day) lots of alcohol & benzo's (mainly Klonaz) & seroquel at night to put me to sleep.

Anyways my questions are.

Dose sodium bicarbonate + tartaric acid + citryic acid anhydrous + sodium citrate hydrous... Improve the amphetamine effects?

& a bit of Magnesium could go a long way yeah????

Is it Important that I quit alcohol?

Regards.....

(JUST WANNA BE HAPPY)
 
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Jug said:
Dose sodium bicarbonate + tartaric acid + citryic acid anhydrous + sodium citrate hydrous.
(JUST WANNA BE HAPPY)
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maybe but you're gonna be happy and gassy and bloated :)
bicarb +tartaric acid is the normal sherbert recipe.

I will move this thread into the long amphet NMDA magnesium thread
 
^lol, an internal science fair volcano

sodium citrate and citric acid are the same thing, so there is no need for both

I would reconsider the benzos and amphetamine as well as the alcohol :\
 
Ketamine causes dopamine, serotonin, and norepinephrine release as well as reuptake inhibition at the same time. Ketamine, amphetamine, and amphetamine's metabolites seem to be metabolized primarily by CYPB26 and CYP3A4, so the half life of all would increase.
 
Ham-milton said:
no, it goes through the hepatic microsomal system. I don't really know what that is, but that's what this says.
Click to expand...


I was interested to note that the website linked says M1 contributes significantly to the analgesic effects. According to everything I've read about opioid SARs a tertiary amine is required for any kind of activity, indicating that this analgesic activity is not mediated by the opiate receptors. Anyone have an explanation for this?
 
^You're probably right. So, like pretty much all SAR rules this isn't always true. But does there exist an argument with inductive strength which explains the exceptions?
 
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