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The ISIS Megathread

Escher's Waterfall said:
Well, her age and what Muhammad did is open to interpretation.

But it was another time - to use an example that may hit closer to home, we don't tend to diss Christianity based on the fact that the holy book is deeply fucked up in parts. Even I, with criticisms of Christianity, will admit you can't condemn a book based on it being written by the people of the time, even if it openly talks about how God wills genocide, rape, etc.
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And paedophilia - there's plenty off kiddy-fucking going on in the Bible, as has been pointed out to LulWut23 before.
 
What 23 said:
Bill Maher Battles Charlie Rose on Why Islam is More Dangerous than Other Religions
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The same Bill Maher that staunchly defends the right of Judaism to murder little children by making jokes about assaulting women? He's hardly someone to hold up as arbiter of what is ethical 8)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...long-before-you-have-to-slap-her-9614329.html

Christianity has been responsible for multiple campaigns of expansion, violence and terror - inflicting Holocausts where literally hundreds of millions of people were slaughtered in the name of Christ. The most insane Muslim extremists could only dream of inflicting the scale of horror that Christianity has been responsible for over recent centuries.
 
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Escher's Waterfall said:
Well, her age and what Muhammad did is open to interpretation.

But it was another time - to use an example that may hit closer to home, we don't tend to diss Christianity based on the fact that the holy book is deeply fucked up in parts. Even I, with criticisms of Christianity, will admit you can't condemn a book based on it being written by the people of the time, even if it openly talks about how God wills genocide, rape, etc.
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The Quran is supposed to be the infallible word of Allah, though.

And I do so diss the OT ;)

Carry on.
 
bit_pattern said:
The same Bill Maher that staunchly defends the right of Judaism to murder little children by making jokes about assaulting women? He's hardly someone to hold up as arbiter of what is ethical 8)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...long-before-you-have-to-slap-her-9614329.html

Christianity has been responsible for multiple campaigns of expansion, violence and terror - inflicting Holocausts where literally hundreds of millions of people were slaughtered in the name of Christ. The most insane Muslim extremists could only dream of inflicting the scale of horror that Christianity has been responsible for over recent centuries.
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As I've said before, I don't think Christ would approve, most likely, by example of his life, with what the Church and many people that 'followed' him did. All the crazy expansion wasnt really in his spirit, at least not in the same sense that it was with Muhammad, who himself can be seen as an example of Islamic behavior.

Jesus never as far as we know, thighed babies. He made a few statements about following the authority, and hinted at great punishment, for those who didn't hold him high, yada, but he can't at all be compared to Muhammad- the hijacker.

Baby fucking, I'm one of those 'Christians' who follows more of a spirit that I believe was manifested through Christ. I don't see Christ being exactly for that, or addressing it. I don't get into the OT, a lot. I don't even really read the NT. I just see the society I grew up in, which is culturally Christian, and here, thighing babies isn't allowed. Here, now, marriage must be consensual. I'm talking about NOW.

Also, again, to draw some comparison between Islam and 'Christianity', in the slave trade, the Arabs castrated males. 'Christians' didn't. In the Christian slave trade, which didn't include Muslims on at all a level to make awareness, to me (unlike Islamic/Arab which took people from all over European coasts and into SE Eur), Black African slaves were allowed to have families. They weren't castrated. Their lineage lives on, unlike in the Arab world. You cite numbers on the slave trade. Some have argued that the Arab trade was much higher than others estimate. The conditions they were held was much worse. Stuff...

Really, I'm sure we can go round and round though. And Muslims wish they could have done what 'Christians' did. For sure they tried.
 
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Have you read the old testament?

But ok.. NT..

Women are subordinate to men, women stay silent in church, slaves be good for your master, etc etc..
 
Didn't only Paul say that about women? Its kind of crazy considering Jesus interacted directly with a woman, Mary Magdalene, and according to some she carried on his word.

Slaves... I feel like a slave anyways. Or a prisoner. Some insight has told me that it is inescapable.

But I agree with what Bill said. Religions are stupid. These are. But to say Islam is no worse, right now, is idiotic. No matter if people who carry Christ as high don't realize the hypocrisy, you don't see them making excuses so often for males to satisfy themselves with babies. You don't see them agreeing that the old punishment of stoning is proper for adultury. You don't see them saying that those who turn from Christianity should be put to death (and I visit an Islamic forum and yes this is said). Etc. They have a spirit that they choose- that they evolved to. Islam has not made such a step. Like you said, Muhammad is infallible, and his example will be clear.
 
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Mona Lisa said:
I fear that within the next few months that IS will randomly abduct and attack members of the general public in western cities to make even more of an impact of spreading terror. While London, Washington and New York come to mind, it could happen virtually anywhere.
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I have to admit that I am a bit worried about flying nowadays. I never used to fly much at all, but recently I started traveling more frequently for work and I can't seem to shake the feeling that there may be an attack somewhere on the horizon. I know that statistically the chances are low that an attack ever actually impacts me, but considering the routes I fly and the frequency with which I travel, alongside the recent uptick of chaos and extremist activity in the Middle East, I can't help but to feel that the risk is higher now than at pretty much any time since 9/11. I'm not going to be deterred from flying, but at the same time I'm not going to pretend like I feel completely safe on commercial jetliners either.
 
I doubt there's much risk of an attack from ISIS. Their avowed and de facto aim is the establishment of a caliphate in the Levant. This goal does not include attacking the US within its according set of possibly relevant strategies. Looking back to Bin Laden's tactics, such terrorist organizations attack the US when attempting to use the US's response to such attacks tactically, as propaganda used in struggles local to the Middle East. While this worked for Bin Laden, the US's subsequent invasions lending legitimacy to those organizations which would later partially coalesce into 'Al Qaeda' (in fact, it was really the US's actions that functioned as Al Qaeda's midwife, leading the organization to become more than just a set of ideological prescriptions), I don't see how these tactics could apply to ISIS's current set of goals and strategic situation.

ebola
 
^ There has been a bit of an uproar in the media within the last week or so about ISIS encouraging "lone wolf" attacks and providing relevant tactical information via forums and other propaganda outlets. I know the media is capitalizing on this information and dwelling on it more so than may be warranted, but I do believe that the basic finding is correct and that such information is motivating to some individuals. With this understanding, my concern is more regarding an event like the Boston Marathon bombings than 9/11.
 
Mine too, for now. People becoming influenced. Obviously recruits are coming from all over...
 
Norf said:
I do believe that the basic finding is correct
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That may be, but encouraging others to commit terrorist acts is a bit shy of expanding one's terrorist organization to include such individuals outright and direct their activities.

ebola
 
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ebola? said:
This is simply empirically false. Depending on the sect and particular strand therein to which one adheres, Muslims have one of the most advanced systems of theological interpretation observed to date. For hundreds of years, Muslim theologians have been publishing systematized commentary and interpretation of their holy text, and also debate over such commentary and interpretation. This body of texts has further been consulted prolifically, by theological professionals and the laity alike. In comparison, Christian theological thought is far less robustly and systematizedly plotted out.
ebola
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great post ebola and very informative.
 
bit_pattern said:
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Yeah, that's cute. The last terrorist attack in the US was at an event I was invited to and planning to attend (Boston Marathon) and it killed three and injured over 250 members of my community, a little over a year ago. The ISIS statement that just came out encouraged similar attacks on New York and Las Vegas, both of which I have visited within the last few weeks. Look, I lived through the Bush years and all the terrorism fear mongering, and I can understand wanting to call out such BS when someone spews it, but what I posted is not fear mongering. There is definitely a risk of a terrorist event happening and while the risk might not be that great to any one random individual, if you're like me and live in, visit, and participate in the type of activities that are most likely to be targeted, there is a legitimate risk factor at play and you would have to be foolish not to recognize it.
 
ebola? said:
That may be, but encouraging others to commit terrorist acts is a bit shy of expanding one's terrorist organization to include such individuals outright and direct their activities.

ebola
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Right, but wouldn't terrorist attacks against the United States still be considered a goal of ISIS in that case? If you encourage others to do something that you want to happen, isn't it still a goal of yours? And wouldn't you still be partly responsible for the act? It's an interesting question because as you mentioned, it doesn't seem to be in ISIS's best interest to outright attack the USA right now. It would seem to me that encouraging others to attack the USA would be unwise for the same reasons, but, considering that they have done it, maybe not? Maybe an attack against the USA that can't be traced ISIS is something they have determined to be in their interests?
 
Right, but wouldn't terrorist attacks against the United States still be considered a goal of ISIS in that case?
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In a sense, yes, but I would qualify public release of information and methods pretty weak tactical allocation for said goal, demonstrating it not to be a priority of theirs. In statistical terms, I would expect the contribution to increased likelihood of death or injury via terrorist attack relatively minor, and thus a poor guiding set of conditions for US foreign policy. Thus, I don't think these minor activities on their organization's part to speak to their central aims and activities.

But I should also point out that I'm not really interested in questions of responsibility; rather, I am more interested in what types of interventions into the social system will reap the most good for the greatest number, on the most just basis. I don't think that retribution fits validly with the ethical commitments that underlie such a goal.

ebola
 
Mona Lisa said:
I fear that within the next few months that IS will randomly abduct and attack members of the general public in western cities to make even more of an impact of spreading terror. While London, Washington and New York come to mind, it could happen virtually anywhere.
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Nobody seams to have posted this as yet..

Anti-terror operation in Sydney and Brisbane 'thwarted' beheading plot
Police say a large-scale anti-terrorism raid in Sydney this morning has foiled a plot to "commit violent acts" in Australia, including a plan to behead a member of the public.
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-...-large-scale-raids-in-sydney-brisbane/5752002
 
^^ 800 police and only two people charged. That was political theatre, pure and simple. Considering our security agencies' history with hysterical overreaction to supposed terror threats (Dr. Mohammed Haneef for example) I remain highly sceptical of any real "threat". The only thing we do know is that a number of people are being arbitrarily detained under overreaching and highly secretive terrorism laws which are more befitting those of a Muslim dictatorship than a liberal democracy like Australia.

Not for want of trying but it still won't save the Abbott government from the disastrous polls - no amount of hysterical fear mongering has been able to halt the inexorable decline of their standing with the Australian community.

Although - thanks to the craven toadies running the Labor Party - it probably WILL allow them to pass more freedom-crushing legislation next week that will legalise torture and criminalise journalism by making reporting on government malfeasance punishable by up to ten years jail.
 
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