The ISIS Megathread

[Middleway]

You see? This is why you occasionally get nice PMs - despite your inflammatory contrarianism you're able to demonstrate an ability to cut through the spin and bullshit with the power of your mind. You're kind of like a thinking man masquerading as a Herald-Sun letter writer.

Oh i see, I get nice PM's because I voice an "acceptable" opinion and like some slobbering Pavlovian dog I'm meant to keep up more of the same?

I haven't changed, its your preconceived prejudices about me that have been challenged.

You take umbrage to my views because all you can see is a white male criticising a religion of mostly brown people and so you stereotype me as a Herald Sun reader.

The truth is that I'm liberal through and through with definete libertarian left leanings and it is from that perspective that my criticism comes from.

Muslims need a serious reality check and the left is doing everyone a great disservice by framing all criticism as racism or Islamophobia.

 

[spacejunk]

^ you're doing your argument no favours by grouping "Muslims" into a single entity; especially one in need of a "reality check".

Your opinions don't make any difference to me, but such an oversimplification of the issue (what exactly is a "reality check"?) comes off as disingenuous.
Talk about doing people a disservice...but "the left" always do that, don't they? In their unified, harmonic way...

 

[Bardeaux]

The truth is that I'm liberal through and through with definete libertarian left leanings and it is from that perspective that my criticism comes from.

This doesn't quite sound right

The "The peaceful majority is irrelevant" stuff combined with a disdain for ethnic groups (separate from religious groups) throws me off a little.

 

[Middleway]

This doesn't quite sound right

The "The peaceful majority is irrelevant" stuff combined with a disdain for ethnic groups (separate from religious groups) throws me off a little.

The peaceful majority are irrelevant when they refuse to acknowledge that extremists like Isis are on theological firm ground. It is the moderates who have an interpretation of Islam that is at odds with the scriptures.

And fuck you very much, I have never spoken negatively of any group on the basis of their ethnicity. To the contrary I have stated that race is a social construct and any idea of racial superiority or inferiority is not backed up by science

 

[L2R]

Yeah we have already done that L2r, post it to 2 weeks ago when we might have cared

i'm getting old and slow. Left to Right or Left to Rot, i dunno.

hows it all been? good?

 

[realtalkloc]

Muslims need a serious reality check

the muslims are fine, it's your underlying PTSD and incessant flashbacks which are causing you to irrationally fear other cultures.

 

[Middleway]

the muslims are fine, it's your underlying PTSD and incessant flashbacks which are causing you to irrationally fear other cultures.

The use of the word "Islamophobia" as if those of us who look at Islam and say ‘We don’t actually want this country to be an Islamic country and be governed by Islamic rules’ are in some way governed by an irrational fear, or a prejudice. On the contrary, its a postjudice. We have looked at Islam and we do not want the precepts of Islam here because we do not want to live in an Islamic society.
That is a rational position. It is not a phobia and can't be classified as some kind of mental illness. It is a perfectly reasonable position to take and people who want to take part in a civilised discussion should not classify the opinions of their opponents as phobias. They should take them on with reason, fact and logic.

 

[Bardeaux]

The peaceful majority are irrelevant when they refuse to acknowledge that extremists like Isis are on theological firm ground. It is the moderates who have an interpretation of Islam that is at odds with the scriptures.

As we've discussed before, muslims across the globe have openly condemned ISIS and related groups. Extremism can't flourish without support. The majority of muslims don't even reside in the middle east or in areas where religious extremism is the political vanguard. ISIS just gets higher media ratings.

And fuck you very much, I have never spoken negatively of any group on the basis of their ethnicity. To the contrary I have stated that race is a social construct and any idea of racial superiority or inferiority is not backed up by science

You realize we have access to old threads right?

All the bleeding hearts on this forum might want to have a look at the latest load of human trash that washed ashore.

(on Australian immigration)

Leftist apologists lose their shit.....

Must boring for you leftists now that is only your little sewing circle left.

I'm just curious, really. When did "you leftists" turn into "us leftists"?

 

[ebola?]

It is not a phobia and can't be classified as some kind of mental illness.

Most usage of [x]phobia as applied to individuals doesn't literally impute fear; not everyone works with a psychodynamic theory whereby deep-seated fear is used to explain hatred.

ebola

 

[Middleway]

As we've discussed before, muslims across the globe have openly condemned ISIS and related groups. Extremism can't flourish without support. The majority of muslims don't even reside in the middle east or in areas where religious extremism is the political vanguard. ISIS just gets higher media ratings.

I didn't make a statement on whether mainstream Muslims had condemned ISIS or not. You just quoted what I said "mainstream muslims refuse to acknowledge that extremists like Isis are on theological firm ground"

realize we have access to old threads right?

(on Australian immigration)

My referring to them as human trash had nothing to do with their ethnicity. I could call them "animals" in the same vain and be referring to their behaviour or character.
On page 2 of that thread I made very clear my views when I wrote sarcastically:

Yes Esher, as I have stated many times on here. The only thing I hate more than blacks and arabs is gay Jews...and maybe women working.

8(

Nice try, keep looking through my old threads, let me know how you go

I'm just curious, really. When did "you leftists" turn into "us leftists"?

There is a big difference between a liberal and a leftist.
Furthermore there is an even bigger difference between having social democratic values and being a revolutionary Marxist which clearly some forum members are.

 

[Middleway]

Most usage of [x]phobia as applied to individuals doesn't literally impute fear; not everyone works with a psychodynamic theory whereby deep-seated fear is used to explain hatred.

ebola

Thanks for pointing that out Ebola, you're right of course and its made me look at the idea of Islamophobia from a new perspective.

Islamophobia is actually a really a good example of newspeak. A quick google shows that I am in good company in making this assertion:1

From Salman Rushdie's autobiography:

Something new was happening here: the growth of a new intolerance. It was spreading across the surface of the earth, but nobody wanted to know. A new word had been created to help the blind remain blind: Islamophobia. To criticize the militant stridency of this religion in its contemporary incarnation was to be a bigot. A phobic person was extreme and irrational in his views, and so the fault lay with such persons and not the belief system that boasted over one billion followers worldwide. One billion believers could not be wrong, therefore the critics must be the ones foaming at the mouth. When, he wanted to know, did it become irrational to dislike religion, any religion, even to dislike it vehemently? When did reason get redescribed as unreason? When were the fairy stories of the superstitious placed above criticism, beyond satire? A religion was not a race. It was an idea, and ideas stood (or fell) because they were strong enough (or too weak) to withstand criticism, not because they were shielded from it. Strong ideas welcomed dissent.

 

[zzz101]

Wow two Australian girls join isis. http://www.bnowire.com/2014/10/10/austrian-girl-who-joined-isis-in-syria-wants-to-come-home/

 

[Bardeaux]

I didn't make a statement on whether mainstream Muslims had condemned ISIS or not. You just quoted what I said "mainstream muslims refuse to acknowledge that extremists like Isis are on theological firm ground"

What exactly is the "theological firm ground"? ISIS obviously doesn't have the most popular interpretation of Islam. They don't have the most followers. They don't have the best reputation. The don't have the most respect in the muslim community or elsewhere. If having the "theological firm ground" means that they are the most fundamental, then one (including muslims) can't really answer with anything other than "no shit".

My referring to them as human trash had nothing to do with their ethnicity.

How egalitarian of you.

There is a big difference between a liberal and a leftist.

Indeed. You referred to yourself as a "libertarian leftist". Not sure how well the human trash immigrant line of thinking meshes with this ideology.

Furthermore there is an even bigger difference between having social democratic values and being a revolutionary Marxist which clearly some forum members are.

So you're someone with social democratic values but aren't a radical leftist? We in the business call these liberals. But I digress, this is for another thread.

 

[bit_pattern]

Wow two Australian girls join isis. http://www.bnowire.com/2014/10/10/austrian-girl-who-joined-isis-in-syria-wants-to-come-home/

Austrian. Not Australian.

 

[zzz101]

fuck nvm i am high lol

 

[L2R]

p.s. sharia is actually about living humbly and being charitable to those who are less fortunate.

totally unaustralian

 

[What 23]

That's whitewashing it just a tad.

 

[L2R]

nope, just removing the hatemongering hype.

 

[realtalkloc]

fuck nvm i am high lol

LOL you're my homey

 

[Middleway]

What exactly is the "theological firm ground"? ISIS obviously doesn't have the most popular interpretation of Islam. They don't have the most followers. They don't have the best reputation. The don't have the most respect in the muslim community or elsewhere. If having the "theological firm ground" means that they are the most fundamental, then one (including muslims) can't really answer with anything other than "no shit".

But its more than just fundamentalism, its a literal reading of the quran and the hadith

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. This is not "an interpretation", this is clear literal commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

How egalitarian of you.

So you were wrong

Indeed. You referred to yourself as a "libertarian leftist". Not sure how well the human trash immigrant line of thinking meshes with this ideology.

Again you use italics to try to make them impression that I was making a generalised statement that immigrants are human trash when I have clearly shown you that this wasn't what I said.
Why misquote and misrepresent my opinion, wouldn't you prefer it if we could see eye to eye on something....obviously not.

So you're someone with social democratic values but aren't a radical leftist? We in the business call these liberals.

Which is what I said in the first place! Seriously, don't do drugs and then post online because you're obviously fucking high

But I digress, this is for another thread.

90% of what you post is for another thread. How you so casually throw around accusations of racism says much about your character