The Imminent Climate Disaster and the Impending Expiration Date of Humanity

[P A]

According to this article, climate change is likely to become irreversible (or only reversible with great difficulty) within the next four or five years. This not only guarantees a mad rush on the inevitable extinction of humanity - it also allows us to obtain a rough estimate of when the coming apocalypse will arrive. It doesn't take a master of statistics nor a doctor of ecology to gather that, given the supreme reluctance of nearly every corporation and government to endorse radical 'green' policies with any degree of enthusiasm, our 'efforts' to forestall this disaster are likely to be met with failure.

In response to this sense of simmering frustration over humanity's future (to say nothing of the future of the remainder of the biosphere), activists contend that humans are proving their impotence, greed, and shortsightedness when it comes to the issue of climate change.

Though I may concede the above critique, I often find myself wondering what practical longview is really being advocated by environmentalists. They lay moral claim to the inheritance of our "children's children," but what about those who have no kids of their own? To make a potentially long post shorter, are we truly expected to give a shit? The more I read on the subject of climate change denial and radical environmentalism, the more skeptical I become of the sociopolitical ideals espoused by either camp. The former is populated mostly by fools and conspiracy nuts; but the latter houses people of all denominations - socialists, libertarians, anarchists, individualists, centrists, liberals, and even neoconservatives. What am I, a skeptic of humanism with no children of his own (nor any desire for such a thing), to make of the facile attempts at moral persuasion made by nearly every environmentalist, radical or not? What, after all, is the point?

And, to all the concerned parents who may chance upon this post, are you capable of providing a truly convincing reason for all of us, i.e., humanity at large, to act in our/its own (arguably abstract) interest? That is, why on Earth would anyone endowed with a high-school-level appreciation of human history and a conscience feel an urgent compulsion to preserve this strange and terrible enterprise? I am aware that this is a question that ultimately boils down to atomistic precepts: Why are people here? Is humanity worth a shit on its own merit? Does the preceding question have any meaning? What is the value and/or purpose of life? I don't expect any answers to these fundamental questions...but isn't anyone else plagued by doubt over this looming specter of science-fiction-turned-reality?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I don't believe it.

 

[webbykevin]

That's perhaps what the dinosaurs thought about the meteorite, but without that mass extinction there would be no higher primates, so maybe nature is going to purge this planet of the human experiment and that will clear a path for an as yet unimagined form of higher consciousness, and those beings will look in the shale at our fossil record the way we look at the paleocine epoch and say "well it's a shame they blew it but thank god they did because it allowed us to come into fruition". but I do think it's a real pity that after all we have been through in the human adventure out final act was one of collective suicide, not a very classy stage exit.

 

[L2R]

P A, don't you want to see what colours the iphone 6 will be available in?

in other words, existence: hey there's nothing else to do.

 

[DeathDomokun]

This news is pleasing to me. Humans are a mistake.
I don't see 'childrens children' even being an incentive to care, irrespective of my aversion to breeding.
Why might someone care about objective reality once they no longer exist?
Really, it's all a matter of your perspective.
You'd think the people with lots of money invested/being made from humanity would care more about the world than those of us who aren't evil scum, right?
I mean what is the point to life? To human existence?
What value does it have? To you?

You have to make something clear for anyone who wants to actually contribute to this thread and address your question, are:
a) you looking for a reason to care
b) you wanting to learn why people might care

 

[P A]

You have to make something clear for anyone who wants to actually contribute to this thread and address your question, are:
a) you looking for a reason to care
b) you wanting to learn why people might care

I don't know...if I had to pick one of the above, I suppose I'd select option 'b.' But as I tried to make clear in my OP, I'm not looking for anything in particular.

in other words, existence: hey there's nothing else to do.

Eh, I don't know. This place can be pretty damn painful at times, often in morbid disproportion to the few pleasures it evokes. Making existence out to be some kind of metaphysical boon just doesn't seem fair to all the psychiatric inpatients and starving children that have ever lived // are living. But yeah, I guess I kinda do look forward to seeing how Microsoft will fuck up Windows 19, or whatever.

 

[Busty St Clare]

This news is pleasing to me. Humans are a mistake.
I don't see 'childrens children' even being an incentive to care, irrespective of my aversion to breeding.
Why might someone care about objective reality once they no longer exist?
Really, it's all a matter of your perspective.
You'd think the people with lots of money invested/being made from humanity would care more about the world than those of us who aren't evil scum, right?
I mean what is the point to life? To human existence?
What value does it have? To you?

You have to make something clear for anyone who wants to actually contribute to this thread and address your question, are:
a) you looking for a reason to care
b) you wanting to learn why people might care

Giving up is even worse than not giving a shit. I don't see a child as a burden on society, rather a fresh start who can be moulded to replace a defective human who already exists. The more "better" humans created the more likely society will move forward in a positive light. Throwing up your hands and pissing and moaning is defeatist and just as lame as if you were one of the "bad guys". It is called survival of the fittest but reality is it is survival of who wants it more.

I don't see humans being wiped out any time soon. We are a far more adaptive and resilient creature than a threatened frog in the rain forest or a short limbed, cold blooded dinosaur. You only have to look at the vast range of climates and environments humans have adapated to over the planet to realise that human life will go on until temperatures reach boiling point and our water supply vaporises into the universe. Climates may change and our most prized cities may no longer be the oasis they are now, but for every temperate zone that is baked into a desert, a currently cold and uninviting environment will melt and grow again.

Antarctica is a perfect example of a continent that would benefit from global warming. Once upon a time it was a lush land with rain forests and vast ecosystems teeming with life. The place is covered in enough fresh water and natural resources to sustain millions of humans. Coastal communities might be susceptible to extreme weather patterns but there is nothing stopping humans ascending the mountain ranges and tapping into geothermal energy as well as harnessing the solar energy we are bombarded with daily.

As a society we waste a ridiculous amount of our natural resources. Eventually we will return to using what we need, learning to restore and repair what we have worn out and passing on to our children family heirloms necessary for survival. The technology exists today for most people to live completely off the grid with little reliance on government assistance. Sure our lifestyle will have to change and the simple luxuries we take for granted such as overseas trips by plane or Friday night football on the television may be lost to history but to say humans will wither and die underestimates the power of the human mind and his opposable thumb.

 

[P A]

The more "better" humans created the more likely society will move forward in a positive light.

Well yeah sure, Busty, so long as everyone is 100% on board with your operational definitions of 'better' and 'positive.'

I don't see humans being wiped out any time soon. We are a far more adaptive and resilient creature than a threatened frog in the rain forest or a short limbed, cold blooded dinosaur. You only have to look at the vast range of climates and environments humans have adapated to over the planet to realise that human life will go on until temperatures reach boiling point and our water supply vaporises into the universe.

I think you're either missing the point that environmentalists are trying to make or you're just a 'lite' version of a garden-variety climate change denier. Meteorologists and ecologists are so daunted by this problem precisely because of its undeniable severity. According to those who dedicate a significant proportion of their lives to the academic study of such things, if we continue to consume our planet's natural resources in the quantities we do now, using the methods we do now, and for the purposes that we do now, there won't be very much left to go around. The relative adaptability of a particular species won't be worth a damn if the entire planet on which it exists is reduced to smoldering ash heaps and mutilated tree stumps by its own misguided endeavor.

I guess I just don't share your stalwart faith in humanity. But then again, what sort of humanist are you? [see below]

Sure our lifestyle will have to change and the simple luxuries we take for granted such as overseas trips by plane or Friday night football on the television may be lost to history but to say humans will wither and die underestimates the power of the human mind and his opposable thumb.

But doesn't it bother you that this massive societal transition will almost certainly be accompanied by tremendous excesses of human death and suffering? You talk about the potential loss of air travel/shipment and the relocation of entire swaths of people to Antarctica with such cavalier disregard for the terrible consequences these sorts of things could engender. This makes me wonder what kind of optimist you are - as you consider the eventual fate of humanity (whatever it may be) is the grin on your face a benevolent or a vicious one?

 

[Busty St Clare]

I have mates who are off the grid and completely self sufficient. They live 20 odd km from beautiful beaches, high up in the rainforest with running water, dams, a modest house powering everything from tv's to laptops to hot water all from handful of solar panels. They grow their own veggies and have a mate down the road who they exchange crops with who supplies them with beef that he raises. Their life is pretty sweet. They work hard to live like this but they are content that they will live until they eventually die in their own patch of paradise.Now some people would look at how they live and cry that it is uncivilised, they have to shit into a compost toilet and the nearest night club is an hours drive away.

You may come from the Mad Max school of apocalyptic demise where as I come from more of a resetting of imbalance. If the last barrel of oil was drawn tomorrow and the power grid was suddenly pulled, I don't doubt there would be massive social upheaval. I admit I am lucky enough to come from a small island country which is decidedly more socialist than America. I watch something like The walking Dead and imagine a society like America would descend into a dog eat dog shit fight. In order to even settle a continent like Antarctica takes a lot more ingenuity and skill. It is an untouched frontier that would take the best of human endeavour to survive and prosper there. A roving gang of hoods may be able to sail there but I doubt they would survive past 12 months. American was not settled by pirates was it? It took a sample of creative and resourceful people to create a nation.

I just don't see your prediction of mass extinction coming true. Civilisation may take a backward step but it wouldn't be the first time this has happened. The Dark Ages following the fall of the Roman empire could have end with nothing but marauding gangs of barbarians, but humanity for the most part is good, despite what you want to fear, and civilised society will eventually reform. Even a catastrophic environmental disaster will only thin the numbers enough for clever men to start again.

 

[webbykevin]

Even a catastrophic environmental disaster will only thin the numbers enough for clever men to start again.

Without food or fresh water, that would be mighty impressive. The situation we are in is unprecedented and one cannot compare it to any historical situation, many scientists are aware that we have gone past the tipping point and are now on an unstoppable path towards a complete breakdown in the food chain, business as usual is just not on the menu.

Which is OK, life will continue on a universal level I'm certain, the loss of earth as a viable habitat for carbon based existence will be a disaster only for those who are attached to it, but the rest of the cosmos wont give a shit

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

You seem to have a horrible case of alienated-first-world-person-with-too-much-time-on-their-hands-syndrome P A. I don't think one can make a case for ANY action if we're going to start denying that some actions/states of being are inherently more desirable than others. There really is no room for dialogue if one takes up such a nihilistic stance.

It's okay though, because those of us suffering from this disease have a habit of naturally selecting ourselves out of the gene pool. Life will go on and people will continue giving a shit, as they should.

Though to more clearly answer your question. I hold these truths to be self-evident, that life beautiful and meaningful; that this planet is worth protecting and preserving; and that it is special human interest, one that sets apart our species, to care about and act for the well-being of future generations.

 

[Busty St Clare]

Without food or fresh water, that would be mighty impressive.

Water is never really lost, it is simply recycled through the planet. There is plenty of fresh water locked up in the Southern Alps of New Zealand's South Island let alone Antarctica. Both land masses are volcanic havens that produce enough thermal energy to supply hot water. As climate zones change you will find regions that are currently difficult to farm suddenly become agricultural oasis. Humans manage to live in underground towns deep with the Australian outback, on ice shelfs on the Arctic circle and in barren plains in Mongolia for thousands of years, I'm sure with the knowledge of today's technology we will survive for hundreds of more.

 

[-=SS=-]

Carbon Dioxide based climate-change is a load of politicially sanctioned psuedoscience BULLSHIT. Period. It never ceases to amaze me that so many intelligent people can be sucked in by something so half baked as this. All the science and warnings just point in one direction.. more taxes and more regulations.. at no point is any viable solution even proposed. If the threat was as great as they claim it is then the governments would be doing far more than they are!

Where's the warnings about all the plastic accumulating in the oceans, or the radioactive waste, or the other load of toxic chemicals that are just waiting to make it up the food chain to us (and already are)? There are far greater threats to our survival that are not even being discussed and that tells you all you need to know about CO2 based climate change. Again, if they really were serious about the threat to our survival they would release all the free energy technology they've been supressing for almost 100 years and let mankind finally fucking evolve to a new level. You can dismiss that if you want but it is the truth. Call me a conspiracy nut if you want and go back to living inside your box if it makes you feel safer.

No, the greatest threat to our survival is not climate change but ignorance of the public to the way our world is ruled by an elite few who don't give a flying fuck about you, your family, or peace and success for the many.

Humans are not a mistake either. Whoever said that is totally wrong and needs to go hug someone.

 

[webbykevin]

Humans are not a mistake either. Whoever said that is totally wrong and needs to go hug someone.

Maybe not as individuals, but as a species I think we have sucked, I wouldn't like to give the rest of nature a vote on whether they want us here or not.

 

[-=SS=-]

Maybe not as individuals, but as a species I think we have sucked, I wouldn't like to give the rest of nature a vote on whether they want us here or not.

But this is just as false and self-important as the "humans are so neat!" idea. We just lack decent leadership that's all; we continue to allow those with no moral compass or spiritual insight to guide the fate of our societies, and also allow them to soil our potential by promoting false theories that bind our minds into nilihistic and destructive patterns.. such as the belief we're a mistake, or that the mind is (or in) the brain, or that the Sun is a decaying nuclear furnace/the Universe will one day dissipate etc.

 

[webbykevin]

I think the fact that people still think we need ANY kind of leadership is just a moral cop out, people need to take responsibility for themselves not wait for someone else to come up with all the answers, that is totally dis empowering.

 

[panic in paradise]

Carbon Dioxide based climate-change is a load of politicially sanctioned psuedoscience BULLSHIT. Period. It never ceases to amaze me that so many intelligent people can be sucked in by something so half baked as this. All the science and warnings just point in one direction.. more taxes and more regulations.. at no point is any viable solution even proposed. If the threat was as great as they claim it is then the governments would be doing far more than they are!

Where's the warnings about all the plastic accumulating in the oceans, or the radioactive waste, or the other load of toxic chemicals that are just waiting to make it up the food chain to us (and already are)? There are far greater threats to our survival that are not even being discussed and that tells you all you need to know about CO2 based climate change. Again, if they really were serious about the threat to our survival they would release all the free energy technology they've been supressing for almost 100 years and let mankind finally fucking evolve to a new level. You can dismiss that if you want but it is the truth. Call me a conspiracy nut if you want and go back to living inside your box if it makes you feel safer.

No, the greatest threat to our survival is not climate change but ignorance of the public to the way our world is ruled by an elite few who don't give a flying fuck about you, your family, or peace and success for the many.

Humans are not a mistake either. Whoever said that is totally wrong and needs to go hug someone.

recycle every day: incentive programing.

 

[P A]

You seem to have a horrible case of alienated-first-world-person-with-too-much-time-on-their-hands-syndrome P A.

And you seem to have an equally serious case of pompously-condescending-internet-psychoanalyst-itis. But thank you for your unsolicited, utterly inaccurate diagnosis. For someone who claims to be a Christian, a spiritualist, or whatever the fuck, you sure are a royal prick. I earnestly pray that your Lord sees fit to bestow upon you a single iota of the humility that the one you claim to admire purportedly possessed. 8)

I don't think one can make a case for ANY action if we're going to start denying that some actions/states of being are inherently more desirable than others. There really is no room for dialogue if one takes up such a nihilistic stance.

At what point in my OP (or anywhere else) did I claim to be a nihilist? Can you cite a post of mine in which I expressed a single nihilistic sentiment?

It's okay though, because those of us suffering from this disease have a habit of naturally selecting ourselves out of the gene pool. Life will go on and people will continue giving a shit, as they should.

But why should they? And, last I checked, all the misanthropes and fools of this world have just as many (if not more) children as the educated and the socially/environmentally conscious do.

Though to more clearly answer your question. I hold these truths to be self-evident

You could say the exact same thing about UFOs and alternate universes - and it would just as convincing in those contexts as it is in this one.

Humans are not a mistake either. Whoever said that is totally wrong and needs to go hug someone.

[I think it was DeathDomo.] But are you readily capable of demonstrating why or how this is the case?

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

I've wondered many times if maybe I (and many other people) were destined to be born during End Times. Maybe I have an important role to play in averting the impending disaster. Or maybe the end of the world will happen in my lifetime no matter what I do, and I was placed here to live through it as some sort of cosmic learning experience.

As I see it, there is no point in worrying or despairing over the state of the world. There is only doggedly working to be the best person I can be, and never missing an opportunity to leave the world and society a better place than I first found it. Despair is so easy these days that I'd almost call it a copout. I'll take the far greater challenge of finding hope in a world where it's hard to find. But that's just me.

"War spreading, families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillsides sowing clover"
-- Wendell Berry, from a poem of his that my father used to recite to me as a tot

 

[webbykevin]

And you seem to have an equally serious case of pompously-condescending-internet-psychoanalyst-itis. But thank you for your unsolicited, utterly inaccurate diagnosis. For someone who claims to be a Christian, a spiritualist, or whatever the fuck, you sure are a royal prick. I earnestly pray that your Lord sees fit to bestow upon you a single iota of the humility that the one you claim to admire purportedly possessed. 8)

lol, Don't hold back so much PA, say what you really mean