The hypnagogic State

[velmwend]

haha surprised i didn't see anyone mention opiates, specifically morphine. Opiates are the kings of producing this state. Ibogaine is a great suggestion too but extremely intense. The whole experience is like a waking dream and very surreal. Ibogaine also has some risks so make sure you research it, people have had seizures on it.

calea zachatechichi is also another herb that can help produce this state.

Thanks, RobotRipping. I'm in the UK so I think I'd find it impossible to get hold of ibogaine, although I'd love to research with it.

 

[psood0nym]

haha surprised i didn't see anyone mention opiates, specifically morphine. Opiates are the kings of producing this state.

Heh, well they were mentioned here:

Opiates/opioides.

Then that post was quoted here:

^truth

Opiates/opioides

Then I alluded to the mention of them, in part, here:

The hynagogic state is difficult to hold onto without falling to sleep or snapping out of it once you realize you're in it. The stronger drugs mentioned in this thread have the liability of being amnestic, which sort of negates the whole point assuming you're interested in how hynagogia can aid in exploring and understanding consciousness, and I can't imagine getting anywhere near sleep while in the midst of even a light dose of a psychedelic.

And that quality of causing forgetfulness leads me to the question: are you on morphine right now? [insert jaundiced winky emo face here]

I would agree that, of the drugs experiences I've had, the opiate nod is the type that most closely recreates the state the most consistently. In fact, I'd say both the opiate nod and the dissociative hole work by inducing something very close to the hynagogic state (for instance, I'd bet the brain wave patterns overlap somewhat -- not sure if this has been tested yet, though), though their other neurochemical effects of course alter the sober state they partially evoke into something distinctly their own.

In addition to amnestic effects, however, drugs like opiates also make analysis more difficult after one comes out of their quasi-hypnagogia ... not that it's not a hell of a lot of euphoric fun despite it, but the OP doesn't ask about nodding. That's interesting about ibogaine, though I had read it was a lot more stimulating. Its receptor profile is one of the most promiscuous of the drugs I've seen data on, so it's hard to see from that how it would be that close for most people, but obviously if that's your subjective experience it is what it is for you. Is it just a dreamy trip or is it really that close to the sober hypnagogic experience?

Sensory Deprivation

One thing not yet mentioned is sensory deprivation. It takes practice, but I'd say of all things mentioned thus far it is the best bet. I've done it before and it's pretty indistinguishable from hynagogia. I think the muscular paralysis that naturally occurs to keep us from acting out dreams, when it happens before sleep, is essentially a naturally produced sensory deprived near sleep trance, and it's easy to imagine that's essentially most of what hypnagogia is. Unfortunately it's expensive to rent or purchase a chamber. If one was serious about it they could ghetto rig their own. All you really need is a wide tub, a bunch of salt to make you float, heaters capable of maintaining a water temperature of 93.3 Fahrenheit (skin temp), and a really quite environment. Though I'd recommend a proper kit.

 

[RobotRipping]

Heh, well they were mentioned here:

And that quality of causing forgetfulness leads me to the question: are you on morphine right now? [insert jaundiced winky emo face here]

I would agree that, of the drugs experiences I've had, the opiate nod is the type that most closely recreates the state the most consistently. In fact, I'd say both the opiate nod and the dissociative hole work by inducing something very close to the hynagogic state (for instance, I'd bet the brain wave patterns overlap somewhat -- not sure if this has been tested yet, though), though their other neurochemical effects of course alter the sober state they partially evoke into something distinctly their own.

haha you got me there.

Ibogaine is a dreamy trip (visually), it is much like a lucid dream but more vivid. I guess it could also be compared to a hypnagogic experience because your mind sort of drifts and takes you to strange places. It is stimulating as well though. Unfortunately it's very hard to remember the experience. I took some notes but can't remember that much from the experience itself. I remember seeing a forest and an old woman came out from behind a tree and told me to deliver a message. I wish i still had my notes but it didn't make any sense afterwards anyway.

 

[velmwend]

haha you got me there.

Ibogaine is a dreamy trip (visually), it is much like a lucid dream but more vivid. I guess it could also be compared to a hypnagogic experience because your mind sort of drifts and takes you to strange places. It is stimulating as well though. Unfortunately it's very hard to remember the experience. I took some notes but can't remember that much from the experience itself. I remember seeing a forest and an old woman came out from behind a tree and told me to deliver a message. I wish i still had my notes but it didn't make any sense afterwards anyway.

RobotRipping, I had a very similar experience during hypnagogia a few years ago. A boy and a lion stood in a forest clearing. The boy was stroking the lion, they were both gazing at me, and the boy said, "A young man has died." At which point it faded.

psoodonym, which opiate would you suggest?

 

[justinsayno]

psoodonym, which opiate would you suggest?

Unless i misread his post i dont think he did. Would anyone in thier right mind ?
Hynagogic states are easily reached naturally so why try to recreate it with highly addictive, potentially life ruining drugs ?

Some of the herbs mentioned sound interesting, [IME a joint of salvia extract can give me intense dreams once i fall asleep] you could try meditation, sensory deprivation before opiates...

Dont mean to sound preachy but, have just recently seen a friend who, despite being old enough and wise enough to know better, get into heroin. Its a worrying thing to put your loved ones through...

The best suggestion IME in this thread is the alarms, you could also try isometric tones, its true there is no evidence to prove they work, but its worth trying a free download or two ?


And while i'm here being a bit of a nob i'll also point out that 5-meo-dalt is a tad too stimulating for this, its the only psychedelic that ever made me want to clean

 

[RhythmSpring]

^ I've also experienced opened dream states after Salvia.

Also, lets not "suggest opiates" on a harm reduction site, hmmm?

 

[velmwend]

hah, I was sure someone has suggested opiates. Anyhows, salvia sounds good. I agree with the rest of y'all..psychedelics would be too stimulating.

Very good results with a small, tail-end 10mg dose of 2cb last night. very vivid and colourful.

suntheanine 150mg + 5htp 150mg half hour before bed. Some nice hypnagogia. Suntheanine is meant to be good because it relaxes and increases the alpha (dream) wave state.

 

[velmwend]

200mg suntheanine and a small dose of valium....nice alpha/theta brainwave combo. I'm wondering what this could do...gonna try tonight.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

I've left my body and done all sorts of things in this in between state before I ever learned what was happening and how to control it. The first time something obvious ever happened to me was when I had sleep paralysis, and it was NOT fun.

It's hard to actively control things while you're in the state. The best thing you can do is do intentional work while you're awake, like writing down what you want to happen when you're in between, or even asleep. A most excellent book I've read, which is now unfortunately out of print, was called the Jungian-Senoi Dreamwork Manual. It talks all about this stuff.

Same here, you can do this stuff sober.

OP look into learning how to lucid dream.

 

[velmwend]

Same here, you can do this stuff sober.

OP look into learning how to lucid dream.

Yep, I might have a nosey 'round dreamviews, they sound like they're pretty much dedicated bunch.

 

[velmwend]

200mg suntheanine and a small dose of valium....nice alpha/theta brainwave combo. I'm wondering what this could do...gonna try tonight.

Too much valium, knocked me out too quickly. will try smaller dose this eve, but had some *very* nice initial cev effects

 

[karmanaut]

I had Hynogogic hallucinations for a while after i stopped taking diazepam.

it was pretty scary at the time as i thought it was permanent or something - i was just unable to sleep at all for a while.

I would close my eyes and try to drift off to sleep, then out of the blackness random objects and faces would just appear out of nowhere then disappear again, i never recognized any of the faces and the objects were really random.

I hated it at the time as i was really quite ill, but looking back i guess it was an interesting experience, although not one i would care to repeat,

 

[velmwend]

Too much valium, knocked me out too quickly. will try smaller dose this eve, but had some *very* nice initial cev effects

Knocked out again. No vals tonight. Just suntheanine and visualisation. Thought about mixing some ur144 blend with calea and smoking before bed. will see how it goes.

 

[naughtynicknails]

Diphenhydramine literally causes you to live a dream.. well.. nightmare.

My advice on lucid dreaming: Wake yourself up (alarm) 3 - 5 hours (depending on how long you sleep for) before you would normally get up.. get up and make a drink or eat something small.. then go back to bed and sleep.. All the time you are awake and falling asleep.. keep repeating to yourself: "This is a dream, I'm dreaming".. only took me a few times for me to go straight into a dream with the knowledge i'm dreaming.

 

[velmwend]

Diphenhydramine literally causes you to live a dream.. well.. nightmare.

My advice on lucid dreaming: Wake yourself up (alarm) 3 - 5 hours (depending on how long you sleep for) before you would normally get up.. get up and make a drink or eat something small.. then go back to bed and sleep.. All the time you are awake and falling asleep.. keep repeating to yourself: "This is a dream, I'm dreaming".. only took me a few times for me to go straight into a dream with the knowledge i'm dreaming.

This would work great for me because I always wake for 2 hours recreational time at 3am, before going back to bed at 5. I think I might try the lucid dreaming route instead of hypnagogics.

 

[Crashing]

Marijuana, DXM, Ketamine, MXE, Opium, Kratom, Ambien

 

[naughtynicknails]

2 hours might be too long and disrupt the REM stage?

The idea is to wake yourself from a dream, implant the thought that you're dreaming into your head then go back into the dream.

But i definitely recommend it.

 

[velmwend]

2 hours might be too long and disrupt the REM stage?

The idea is to wake yourself from a dream, implant the thought that you're dreaming into your head then go back into the dream.

But i definitely recommend it.

okey dokey, I suppose I also need to know when my typical rem time is, too.

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

I read approx 90 min is a'complete rem cycle'
If you sleep in 90 min multiples (3 hr, 4.5, 6, 7.5, 9) it is said that you awake more refreshed. Whereas days that you get plenty of sleep but still wake up groggy can be attributed to waking up mid rem cycle.

I practiced this to test the theory and it seemed decently credible in terms of my subjective observations of course...