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-The- Heroin & Opioid Mega Discussion Thread (Volumes 1+2 Merged)

PM rangrz. He's in canada and knows a lot of opiods and law.

I would certainly reccomend buprenorphine over methadone to those that have a shorter (or less?) abuse history. I'll tell you right now though, that this doesn't mean bupe can't be used with great success on veteran junkies. It's just more expensive and hasn't been around as long as methadone. I highly reccomend it.

I also suggest PMing CaptainHeroin. He's from California, but he really knows pretty much everything about bupe.
 
Hey guys, I read through this thread last night and thought it would be a good place to start. I'm about 30 hours off of a 15 month escalating heroin habit, which culminated in the last 3 months of doing some pretty good powder h, and in the last month doing a lot of iv coke w/ it, and some meth here and there. I've been off of coke for about 12 hours maybe. I'm not feeling too bad yet, but I've been taking 60mg ms contins orally (b/c my veins are so damaged from the coke, or I might be shooting them), and I have at least 5 10mg methadones. I'm hoping I can spread those out and it'll let me down easier, but I'm apprehensive about it making the problem worse as well. I've been through bad wd's in the past, so I'm banking these will help....

On what might be a more emotional note, I just finished a full confession to my brother (with whom I live and is my best friend). He does no drugs/drinking himself, and he has seen several of our mutual friends destroy themselves with h in particular. It all ended in me turning off my phone and handing it over, followed by a hug, but the problem is, and maybe this is me being naive, I don't want this to stigmatize my life in regard to my family. Like there only to be the before and after of drug use and addiction. Maybe that's asking too much. Also, now that I've been honest I'm worried I've lost control (ie now I'll be coerced into moving away, going to rehab, etc). I needed to tell someone, and he is the closest person in the world to me. Yet, now my entire family may find out and this may get far out of hand. I suppose I've resigned to try to do all I can to stay within their favor because they are dearly important to me. My brother says, depending on the severity of my tentative withdrawals, I need to have a solid plan when I'm clearheaded and sober, otherwise rehab may be a discussion. I don't feel terrible, and am not caving as of now, but I can't think up a plan, or even where to start. I probably need time. I hate that my brother had to go off to work with all of that on his mind. I'm gonna get through the day with Gun Club records, the internet, some weed (just to get eating and hopefully relax), and a minimal amount of soul-searching.

Also, it is a massively helpful discovery for me to find other intelligent, thoughtful, interesting people out there struggling with similar issues. I would have scoffed at the notion of the internet as some realm of solace or support a year ago, but I'm coming along now. I really feel for people on this thread and hope you all can weather through and thrive. Forgive my misspellings: but artofwar, I don't think I can begin to relate to the extent of your struggle and I really wish you strength. Also, I hope you pull through Redleader, because I particularly find your contribution helpful, not to put undue pressure on you. Keep us updated!
 
Find new worthwile things to do. Idle hands is the Devil's play thing for a reason. I suggest NA for starters. It will kill time, if anything else.

I think it's time to tell your family this stuff, before it kills you. Don't put a price on your life and sanity.

About the mscontins and 'dones.. Hold on to them until you really start hurting, and dose very low. Don't try to get off at all, and don't dose to fully remove the withdrawals. Take just enough. That is my advice.
 
Thanks Dex, I'm surprisingly upbeat thus far and no mscontins or anything else yet. As happy as I am this short in about turning the corner and changing, I know, whether in 5 days, 5 weeks, or 5 whatevers there's gonna be a scenario where either I've done well and feel the need to reward myself, or a shit day arrives, and the pivotal moment will come and I'll need to wrestle with it. Haha, what am I kidding myself for? Certainly, the next 3-7 days should be laden with cravings, but for some reason, right now, I'm more worried about that one off in the distance that fucks me when my guard is down. Maybe it's just a coping mechanism to avoid anxiety over the imminent wd's in store.

Ah well, I did the dastardly version of the honest thing, and gave my parent's the half truth: I told them I've been orally abusing morphine, and as a result I may be laid up for a while due to withdrawal. I haven't felt so much like a 9 year old in 17 years - back when I was actually 9! Telling half-truths or confessions which incrementally complete the ugly truth. I just couldn't tell them I've IV'd stuff, or done actual h, because while people can have very severe addictions to morphine and other scrips, they are wrongly not stigmatized like the street drugs. Rightly so, to an extent, and still my father (having no experience or understanding with any of this) believes only professional help to be worth-wile. As I said, I'm not trying to bring some traumatic power-transfer down upon myself, and I don't want to lose my freedom and end up in the first cut-rate rehab my parents find out of desperation. I don't want a script for subs, and I don't need to go on methadone. I just (unfairly) am asking them to try to be patient while I see how bad this is gonna be, and then discuss options. Or am I gambling with my life stupidly in that? I'm more clear-headed then I've been in a few months, but I wouldn't say I'm sober.... so I don't know if I'm the person with my best interest most at heart or not. No, actually, I can make decisions for myself.... more like I need to.
 
I can make decisions for myself..

Definitely. And you know what the answer is. No one else does. They, and we can only guess and put thoughts/ideas in your head.

My tip about the withdrawals and cravings? Let your gaurd down on purpose, but don't relapse. Use some foresight and see what happens. Really, how bad would it be if you simply did not relapse.. ever again? Try it.
 
At this point, I'm starting to think I'm not gonna need to worry about physical WD's. I haven't had heroin since Saturday night, and my doses of h were losing in the ratio and being replaced with more coke. I was doing a half gram a day for the last week or so, whereas before it was 2 grams a day. Could it be I was running an inadvertent taper? Also, I went to bed at 11pm last night (never ever happens, not since 2008 at least), and I got some sweats, and I didn't have the most peaceful sleep, but I was in and out of sleep until 11am today. However, I did take a half of one of those 60mg ms contins, but even two of those never made me feel too great during withdrawal in the past. I'm pretty confused. I feel like I could go for a walk now, which is not par the course for my withdrawal.
 
Hi,
First off, everyone who is struggling to get a handle on their addictions on here, keep up the good fight. What's past is past and we can only control the future blah blah.
I feel like I shouldn't even be posting here since my addiction? The babiest, practically unborn fetus of all opioid addictions: kratom. Yeah isn't that supposed to help you get off of opioids? Well even so, I got addicted to it. Maybe I'm just a weak individual, that's okay with me to admit. I'm just happy that I am admitting to this before I continued on with other opioids. Unfortunately, ever since I began surfing erowid, opiods have had a special draw for me, and it seems, many other people too. So, feeling like I was going to do an opioid and get addicted sooner or later, I though replacing this craving with kratom would be safe. Well it has shown me just how addictive a substance like this is. If I can feel addicted to something like kratom, I know to stay far from any real opioid. I am truly grateful that I was able to have the experience that I did in some ways since it feels like I now know what to avoid in life. After deciding to quit, I experienced the withdraws. Now, there is practically no physical withdrawal from kratom so hate on me all you want, you all have a much harder time than I do and I appreciate that fact and am grateful. However, kratom messed me up emotionally. Now, I realize that I was using kratom to deal with underlying anxiety. I have never considered myself an anxious person but looking back, when I was not on kratom in the past few months, I couldn't sit still, had to be constantly moving about, etc. Anyway, sorry if you don't want this here. I understand. This "addiction" is nothing compared to what you guys go through. But I just thought I would share this atypical yet also rather typical experience with the opioid experience. Go easy on yourselves.
 
@geoffreychaucer, I feel ya, even though I was IVing heroin and coke up until last Saturday for at least a month straight on the tail end of a 3-4 month 2 gram a day heroin habit, I feel like my habit is minimal at best compared to some others here at bluelight. Here I am on my third day clean and I have no terrible withdrawals, instead I'm out driving 90mph on the San Diego freeway listening to really loud music with a giant smile on my face, stopping every 4 minute and getting confused as to why I'm not suffering in bed. I suppose the scope of our addictions, my neglect/absence of WD, all of it goes back to that Milton quote from Paradise Lost, and I butcher: "The mind is its own place, and it can make a heaven out of hell, and a hell out of heaven."
 
Today really tested my limits.

Woke up in a cold sweat after a very intense heroin dream.

Then, this warm weather is very triggering for me. My real love affair with heroin took off in the springtime, so I've got a ton of cognitive associations in bloom right now. Warm breezes, the flowers coming up, birds chirping... I went to the park before work today to try and relax, and what started as a peaceful getaway turned into terror as I wanted to lay down on a blanket in the middle of a grassy field and nod SOOOO badly. I love nature in the springtime, but I now fear that I've ruined this good thing for myself because last year I made it 'even better.'

Then, on my lunch hour, I go to listen to my voicemails and I have a message from an old dealer of mine who just got out of jail and is back in business. And this guy had the strongest, best heroin I've ever had in my life. Just great. Just hearing the guy's voice on that message, the idiosyncrasies in how he speaks, triggered me. I had just pounded a coffee when I listened to this, and I started freaking out so bad that I was shaking. And of course wanted something to take the edge off.

Get out of work and am immediately bombarded with some bad news. I want to numb all of the stress, pain, anxiety and so on away so badly. I have two recent paychecks in my back pocket, so access to quick cash. I could get absolutely blasted on a small amount of money. There was a beautiful sunset. I debated it for about 20 minutes, but then ended up going home.

Springtime is going to be a very difficult trigger for me. I cannot stop thinking about how everything seemed so good last year at this time, when it was still about the euphoria.
 
It sounds like you could benefit from changing your number, Red. I know that may seem like running from facing the problem, but if that is the thing that keeps you from a relapse I would consider it well worth it.

It might be useful to leverage those good memories, and the inexpensiveness of getting high, with all the reasons you got sober, and the fact that a heroin habit never comes cheap. I've been having difficulty of a similar nature: my bedroom isn't triggering, but it is depressing to be in here, so I go out. Yet, I have to be careful, because a slight misstep could put me face-to-face with someone/somewhere conducive to relapse.

Good for you for pulling through. I'm sure that was still a very long 20 minutes for you.
 
Hey red, I really feel you! There are times where it is ridiculously odd how bad things happen simultaneously and it is sooo easy to take that as an excuse for relapsing. Not pulling the trigger after 20 minutes of deliberation shows how strong you are. Those minutes are back-breaking.
 
It sounds like you could benefit from changing your number, Red. I know that may seem like running from facing the problem, but if that is the thing that keeps you from a relapse I would consider it well worth it.

I should. I admit that I'm lazy and I don't want to spend an entire off-day figuring out what people, what offices, etc need the new number. And then make all of the appropriate calls, texts, etc. I really should, though, if it could at all help with the overall effort. I wish I could delete all of the numbers from my head too.

Not pulling the trigger after 20 minutes of deliberation shows how strong you are. Those minutes are back-breaking.

I wish I could see it like that. I don't see overcoming 20 minutes of that as a sign of strength, though. I see those 20 minutes as a huge sign of weakness. I'm not comfortable with the idea of being proud of or being complemented over staying off of heroin. I should never have done it in the first place, and really I'm just getting back to baseline by not giving in. I want to be proud of what I can accomplish without heroin. What 20 minutes of constructive effort would look like. As a bit of a side, I think this is my biggest gripe with the 12 steps...I just don't like how the act staying clean/sober alone is held so high up on a petistool. Giving attention to sobriety, or the lack of drugs, is still giving attention to something which is a function of drug use. I just want life as a normal person back.
 
I wish I could delete all of the numbers from my head too.

Oh, I know. I handed over my phone to my brother and he looked at me like I wasn't gonna fool him. He knows I know the numbers. Still, avoiding hearing those voices in your mailbox will be well worth the off-day.

And if you can't be proud of staying off heroin, maybe try being proud of facing life without an easy escape. So many cannot, and that is truly sad. I don't know, shift of perspective can be helpful, but really hard to accomplish. I struggle with the idea I'm lying to myself frequently, but sometimes it works.
 
I wish I could see it like that. I don't see overcoming 20 minutes of that as a sign of strength, though. I see those 20 minutes as a huge sign of weakness. I'm not comfortable with the idea of being proud of or being complemented over staying off of heroin. I should never have done it in the first place, and really I'm just getting back to baseline by not giving in. I want to be proud of what I can accomplish without heroin. What 20 minutes of constructive effort would look like. As a bit of a side, I think this is my biggest gripe with the 12 steps...I just don't like how the act staying clean/sober alone is held so high up on a petistool. Giving attention to sobriety, or the lack of drugs, is still giving attention to something which is a function of drug use. I just want life as a normal person back.

I'm absolutely with you about this. Making using drugs or abstinence from them a part of your personal presentation is disgusting when it's done long term. You're absolutely right when you say you're just going back to baseline. But never forget where you come from. You are fighting your way upwards and that is the achievement. You threw yourself into the gutter with smack, but coming back from that is a lot harder than staying clean all the time. And I think one year clean is a lot in general, but not too much when it comes to recovery. It's all about development, that sometimes includes a step backwards or some downtime. It's all about the direction you're heading to.
 
wow, good job. i have been in situations like that , a few times..but unfortunately I have never been strong enough to resist. just reading your story remimded me that i am still not strong enough. I would have failed. good job to you for that
Today really tested my limits.

Woke up in a cold sweat after a very intense heroin dream.

Then, this warm weather is very triggering for me. My real love affair with heroin took off in the springtime, so I've got a ton of cognitive associations in bloom right now. Warm breezes, the flowers coming up, birds chirping... I went to the park before work today to try and relax, and what started as a peaceful getaway turned into terror as I wanted to lay down on a blanket in the middle of a grassy field and nod SOOOO badly. I love nature in the springtime, but I now fear that I've ruined this good thing for myself because last year I made it 'even better.'

Then, on my lunch hour, I go to listen to my voicemails and I have a message from an old dealer of mine who just got out of jail and is back in business. And this guy had the strongest, best heroin I've ever had in my life. Just great. Just hearing the guy's voice on that message, the idiosyncrasies in how he speaks, triggered me. I had just pounded a coffee when I listened to this, and I started freaking out so bad that I was shaking. And of course wanted something to take the edge off.

Get out of work and am immediately bombarded with some bad news. I want to numb all of the stress, pain, anxiety and so on away so badly. I have two recent paychecks in my back pocket, so access to quick cash. I could get absolutely blasted on a small amount of money. There was a beautiful sunset. I debated it for about 20 minutes, but then ended up going home.

Springtime is going to be a very difficult trigger for me. I cannot stop thinking about how everything seemed so good last year at this time, when it was still about the euphoria.
 
my rattie girl has been experimenting with H lately after being clean from H for 12 years! So far she has only had a few bags in several weeks and merely snorted tar water which gave a much different high than she remembered from injecting so long ago.

she actually has managed to keep the usage at a very small amount so far but is worried since she was an IV H addict for over 8 years 12 years ago.

how this happened is she was very stressed out and had to go in a part of town where she used to score... and while driving home she saw one of her old drug friends at a bus stop and stupidly she stopped and gave her a ride.

her friend has just gotten back on methadone after using for a long time and still wanted to score some H so my rattie girl went with her and of course ended up scoring herself.

she doesn't plan on keeping this up and has kratom as well as pods to use from the very slight w/d symptoms even if they are in her head... but she has been using very small amounts of H now daily for almost 3 weeks!!!

and she is not kidding herself - she knows she is in danger since it is becoming a habit even at this stupidly small amount of aprox. 1/4 bag a day... she feels it would have been better to just use up the bags quickly instead of drawing it out this long but since her idea of using has changed and she also has a very weak tolerance (wow) this really hasn't been an option so far.

hopefully she will not go back and buy more when this is gone in a few days.
 
PM rangrz. He's in canada and knows a lot of opiods and law.

I would certainly reccomend buprenorphine over methadone to those that have a shorter (or less?) abuse history. I'll tell you right now though, that this doesn't mean bupe can't be used with great success on veteran junkies. It's just more expensive and hasn't been around as long as methadone. I highly reccomend it.

I also suggest PMing CaptainHeroin. He's from California, but he really knows pretty much everything about bupe.

Thanks so much for those pointers. After doing some more research and reading up on peoples' experiences with sub, it seems that the withdrawal experience from sub is much more difficult than regular opiate withdrawal. And after considering my situation (my source is leaving the country for a couple weeks in a few days) it seems like tapering my dose and quitting cold turkey is the way to go for me. I've done it before, and it was extra lengthy and horrible since I relapsed right in the thick of it (I think it was either day 3 or day 4) when some meds were accidentally left out... and once I saw them and knew where they were, I was a goner. This time my source will be completely cut off, and I've never bought anything from the street and so I wouldn't even know where to start or who to ask. I also reside in a small town, not knowing anybody in town, with a lot of things within walking distance... meaning I'm isolated from temptation and could nurse myself if I needed to.

I know that once I get through it and I'm on the other side, I'll need a decent method of pain management and obviously want to stay away from narcotics from now on. Can anyone recommend a good non-narcotic pain reliever they've had experience with? I know I could just Google a bunch but I'd rather hear from experienced users and others who have to manage pain on a regular basis. After all, it's why I started use in the first place (in addition to the occasional party high). And I know a lot of meds that are readily available in the US are nonexistent in Canada.

Also, can anyone weigh in on whether or not it makes a remarkable difference in w/d experience if I "jump off" from 10mg doses in a total of ~40mg-50mg/day or if I taper to a lower dose? I know it's going to be horrible no matter what, I'm just wondering if anyone can attest to a noticeable difference btwn stopping c/t at like 10mg/day or higher doses... or lower. I hope I'm making sense. :? Last time I stopped c/t it was with pretty much the same doseage and it was pretty awful. The time before that I was using about 10-20mg/day and it wasn't bad at all, kind of just like a mild cold. But then again I had only been using daily for a couple months, 2nd time it had been probably 2 years of pretty much daily use.

Thanks for any and all input, it's all very much appreciated. And... one more thing, is this the kind of place where I could make a w/d thread and expect some support? Or would nobody really care, and not want to hear about it lol =D ... just wondering if I could do it here or if I should go elsewhere. Thanks.
 
it seems that the withdrawal experience from sub is much more difficult than regular opiate withdrawal.

This has not been the case for me. I used subs I purchased from a friend w/ a script and experienced no adverse reaction when I simply ceased taking them. I think the people with problems start at high doses and hence need to taper down from there. If you do end up going w/ subs, try to start low; I've heard, for numerous reasons, it is best to use as low an mg dosage as possible (but that also seems like common sense as I type it now 8)). I had a pretty heavy dope habit when I did this - a couple bags a day, along with morphines here and there, and usually some cocaine IV'd w/ that stuff. However, at that point I was only using consistently for a period of several months, with the few years leading up to that I was chipping, not using so heavily. All that means is your habit could be more severe and you might need more subs in the mix than I, rendering it a more committed route for you. In the end I can only offer you my experience. Let me know if you need me to be more specific about anything if it can help you make a decision (if you haven't already).

Can anyone recommend a good non-narcotic pain reliever they've had experience with?

Yes: Imodium at high doses alleviates opiate withdrawal due to opiate action within this anti-diarrheal medicine. It isn't enough to pass the BBB, at least IME, but it will ease the pain, and if you're w/d aren't too severe they may ostensibly relieve them, but include a basic OTC pain reliever like Aleve, and I also use the cough suppressant DMX (dextromethorphan). Starting doses will depend on the severity of your symptoms, as well as the usual variables: body weight, diet, sleep etc. If nothing else, start low and proceed in regard to the reaction of symptoms. Remember this cliche: you can always do more; you can never do less. Another OTC medicine people use for sleep is Benadryl. Personally, I have procured a mediocre night's sleep w/ this in the mix, yet I feel so discombobulated the next day I don't think it practical. If you can get your hands on Ambien or Trazadone that should ensure you some sleep.

And finally, The Dark Side (TDS) is a great place to make a thread for ongoing help and questions concerning your opiate withdrawals. There are a bunch of guidelines at the top of the threads page containing all the information you could need, and after two minutes, won't want to read anymore. I've spawned a few myself, and received support and insights of genuine assistance, even though, as I am about to outline below, I have continually over the past week failed to keep it clean. All that aside, feel encouraged to reach out and best of luck with kicking the shit outta those motherfucking shakes - you can do it buddy! You really can.

Since I joined bluelight a week ago I've been having what I consider a fairly odd time. In short, I decided to quit hard drugs as my family with whom I live inevitably noticed the unmistakable signs of steadily intensifying abuse (staying up all night; sleeping all day; reclusive behavior; depletion of my savings). After admitting to them my problem and resolving it is time to grow up, I braced myself for the harshest withdrawal I've yet to experience. However, I steadily dosed myself with very nominal amounts of morphine and methadone (previously, these made little difference w/ my symptoms, and I would take four times the doses then I was over the last week - also, certain days I took nothing). Steadily, I've been using small amounts of weed (haven't enjoyed it in over 7 years, but this last week it's been like a reintroduction and it's been kind of fun). For 5 day I kept really positive. I went out and saw friends I pushed out over the last year to avoid their criticism and potential thwarting of my good time. I felt a lust for life I've never before. I laughed and cried more. I created and enjoyed varying types of art. I thought and reflected, and relished my interactions w/ others and myself. On day 5 I went to a party and relapsed. I set the trap for myself - this is clear now. I acquired really good dope, really shitty coke, and I went about contaminating myself. Worst of all, I squandered an opportunity to maturely handle a social gathering sober.... I masqueraded my "unconscious" attempt to relapse as a test of my will power.

To debate procuring drugs is to give into them (for me - I don't know about you). If there is room to discuss it with myself, I'm afraid if I don't give in I will be trapped in that space for who knows how long, constricted and smothered by the anxiety, awkwardness, and physical turmoil resulting from the severe frustration of neglect. It's my ultimate pact of negation. So I let go, accepted the release of my ethics, my promises to my loved ones, my fledgling pride in myself. I traded it in for the potential of another night of feeling like a rock star amongst a group largely quick to condemn the real me if they knew (maybe unfair: some would turn up their noses if they knew I IV'd. Some would help - a reassuring thought on some numb level). The next night I spent embarrassingly doing the leftovers in front of an old friend who I had just confessed my use to hence explaining my ghost-like presence in their life. After destroying my veins w/ mostly coke, and at the end of the weekend I decided to try to quit again after my two day binge, and after a sleep-deficient night, and prickly sickening morning I held steadfast and resolute and I kept from getting that H shot I needed so desperately to sleep. Yet over the last week I used Tuesday and Thursday. Just h, and not the stimulants....

speedballs really are my DOC. I need the heroin, but I'm largely bored and not sated by just it. I must have more, because heroin doesn't give me the rush I want anymore, and I simply can't find better heroin, so I have to concoct that mixture. Sadly, I don't like coke by itself, and I certainly don't like meth, but I have found myself addicted to the coke now, and using the meth more frequently. But I digress. I think I've reloaded the bullet I dodged and now I'm back to the pain when I go 15 hours w/o a shot. Anyway, I have what may be a shot left in my cottons and then I have tomorrow. The big day. Do I continue or no? Can I stop? I want to, but I keep getting the best of myself. How do you stop yourself in the first few seconds of consideration? Do others feel your day, week, life is shot if you deny yourself in that conversation? I know I'm being weak....
 
Does anyone else still get an immediate rush/excitement/etc from seeing run-down, dilapidated buildings and housing complexes? When I used to travel a lot, this is how I would find drugs in a new city. Shouldn't we be attracted to newer, greener areas and not the worst of the worst? This is such a twisted initial reaction to try and shake in recovery. Does anyone else even remotely know what I'm getting at?
 
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