US Politics The Heroes Act (US Phase 4 Stimulus Package)

[yepyepwoah]

Perhaps the people who need it most are the lowest wage workers?

The ones who will be hit the worst by a 70% unemployment pay

What congress is afraid the most of, is us realizing we have been artificially kept in slave jobs at slave wages working together for real change.

What we have is essentially beuracrats telling us we dont deserve to work or be able to survive while they gk to epstein island and fuck children

Any job deserves livable wages, period.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah the underlying issue (one of them) is that everyone deserves a living wage if they are working and contributing to society. And certainly the ones hit the hardest by only getting 70% of their paycheck are those who were working low-paying jobs.

To Deru, it's a good point that throwing out 70% may just be a way of trying to ensure that, after bargaining, it will end up just being 100% instead of more. Hopefully that is the goal, because even though I generally would consider myself a "liberal" and tend to vote Democrat, I think the extra $600 a month, no questions asked, was not well thought out or the best course of action. I completely agree we need to pay wage laborers enough to survive even if they make minimum wage... minimum wage should be a living wage and it is nowhere near a living wage as it stands. At the same time, we do need people to work and contribute to society, so incentivizing people to stay home instead of work is counterproductive. I don't think the answer to the issue of not paying people living wage is to pay people living wage to not work, and slam the national deficit more than is necessary. We should pay people what they were making, and start seriously thinking about overhauling the system so that when people go back to work, they can start making enough money to survive. That way, people who can't work due to the lockdowns will not be worse off than they used to be, ie, they will be able to pay rent and eat food, not get evicted or go hungry and become a further drain on the system (and not suffer unnecessarily). But also incentivize them to get back to work as soon as they can, because doing so will allow them to get themselves into a better situation financially than they're in without work.

It's a multifaceted problem that needs a multifaceted solution. I really think it's important to incentivize people to go back to work, because a society needs everyone to contribute their part in order to function properly. Fucking over the lowest-wage class of workers who are truly unable to get work right now is not the answer though, that will cause a chain reaction of serious problems (besides just being cruel).

 

[Captain.Heroin]

NPR Cookie Consent and Choices

www.npr.org

FUCK YOU NEWSOM

"disaster for the budget" NEWSOM is the disaster.

 

[Deru]

NPR Cookie Consent and Choices

www.npr.org

FUCK YOU NEWSOM

"disaster for the budget" NEWSOM is the disaster.

Trump's executive order for enhanced unemployment benefits is a disaster, that's why he has already back peddled and said governors can do the 300/week without contributing the 25%/$100 - because it is a disaster for many state's budgets. But, don't expect it any time soon...each state has to program a specific program to use the funds, and most states don't have the infrastructure to do it quickly.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Trump's executive order for enhanced unemployment benefits is a disaster, that's why he has already back peddled and said governors can do the 300/week without contributing the 25%/$100 - because it is a disaster for many state's budgets. But, don't expect it any time soon...each state has to program a specific program to use the funds, and most states don't have the infrastructure to do it quickly.

It's not a disaster. The federal government is digging itself into a hole of no return. It has been for some time.

It was illegal and will get overturned and it is still up to congress to pass additional legislation.

Newsom COULD VERY WELL shuffle funds around, make changes - he is choosing not to.

He doesn't listen to the people of California - it's not a wonder to me he doesn't care if we get added UE benefits or not.

 

[Deru]

It was illegal and will get overturned and it is still up to congress to pass additional legislation.

Newsom COULD VERY WELL shuffle funds around, make changes - he is choosing not to.

The second I watched Trump sign that executive order, my first thought that went through my head, was good luck getting governors to use it - especially forcing them to contribute the 25% - and especially in larger states like California and New York.

I'm hoping they go back to negotiating soon.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

The second I watched Trump sign that executive order, my first thought that went through my head, was good luck getting governors to use it - especially forcing them to contribute the 25% - and especially in larger states like California and New York.

I'm hoping they go back to negotiating soon.

If people LIVE and PAY TAXES in those states then those states should have the revenue to do things like this.

If they can't, it's because they squandered the money in foolish ways AND THEY DID. At least CA did.

Sorry - I am specifically mad at Newsom.

 

[Deru]

Sorry - I am specifically mad at Newsom.

Trust me, I get it. I need that $2,400 for my wife and I desperately. Part of the problem is the 25%/$100 has to come from money allocated to the state from the CARES act, and no way would big states hit incredibly hard likely to have much of anything left from those funds. Ultimately, Pelosi and Schumer offered a 1 trillion dollar compromise last Thursday and the White House shut it down. It wasn't even the Senate Republicans to blame here, specifically McConnell, it was mainly Meadows and Trump (not so much Mnuchin.) Everyone suffers when Trump takes useless unilateral action instead of working within the confines of the system and emphasizing making a deal. It's Trump's nightmare or none.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Trust me, I get it. I need that $2,400 for my wife and I desperately. Part of the problem is the 25%/$100 has to come from money allocated to the state from the CARES act, and no way would big states hit incredibly hard likely to have much of anything left from those funds. Ultimately, Pelosi and Schumer offered a 1 trillion dollar compromise last Thursday and the White House shut it down. It wasn't even the Senate Republicans to blame here, specifically McConnell, it was mainly Meadows and Trump (not so much Mnuchin.) Everyone suffers when Trump takes useless unilateral action instead of working within the confines of the system and emphasizing making a deal. It's Trump's nightmare or none.

Adding trillions to the deficit is a terrible idea. Economists know it, and grilled Trump on it during 2016 debates. Lied out his ass and America is too stupid to know what debt is.

The Republicans are right to obstruct progress here. The Democrats wouldn't come off their $600/week high horse. Pelosi can't know what some of us are going through while she has $24K (each) pair of refrigerators filled with expensive ice cream. The rest of us are making life-changing decisions about how we're going to get by.

The average politician has a severe disconnect from the average American experience.

 

[Deru]

The Republicans are right to obstruct progress here

Republicans weren't to blame here and weren't the ones who obstructed progress, though. Fiscal hawks like Ted Cruz, and the whole blend from the farthest left to the farthest right, from fiscal hawks to doves, are what makes our system work so beautifully. When Trump prevents that system from working, and takes unilateral action, he doesn't allow the process to play out. Trump and the White House, alone, prevented progress.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Republicans weren't to blame here

They kind of were. All they had to do was go along with the deficit growing out of control and there would have been a unified American plan to keep people housed. Wait for the winter to hit; people will get evicted, people will line up for hospital treatment they may never see, people will go without money.

All they had to do was negotiate. Both R's and D's are to blame here, equally IMO.

 

[Deru]

All they had to do was negotiate. Both R's and D's are to blame here, equally IMO.

This is exactly what I'm saying

Trump stopped the negotiations.

In the case of the failed negotiations, it's neither the Democrats nor the Republicans fault, for once. The White House didn't allow the process to continue.

The negotiations were between the Democrats and the White House (Meadows and Mnuchin) not McConnell or the Senate Republicans

 

[Captain.Heroin]

"How were they responsible, Captain?"

Sending Meadows, not Trump.

Sending Meadows, not McConnell.

Dems put up their people, where were the Repubs? Scared about their chances of re-election? Pandering to losers on golf courses? Of course.

Mitch probably had some private high seas cocaine trafficking transactions to accomplish.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Trump stopped the negotiations.

No. The D's know after Trump is sued the legislation will be repealed.

The negotiations stopped because the Dems wouldn't come off $600/week and R's wouldn't send in the big boys.

 

[Deru]

R's wouldn't send in the big boys.

That's where everything becomes increasingly complex, here. McConnell didn't have enough Republicans for the vote, so they needed Democrat Senate votes.

Which is ultimately how the negotiations wound up between Pelosi and Schumer and Meadows and Mnuchin with McConnell not allowed.

As far as I knew, McConnell agreed to the 600/week and that wasn't the issue. The issue was the White House wouldn't budge, even after Pelosi offered the 1 trillion dollar compromise.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

McConnell didn't have enough Republicans for the vote, so they

No, SCALISE is a TERRIBLE party whip. Getting shot and still thinking assault rifles are awesome is a sign of low IQ.

"so they need a new party whip" would be a better end to your sentence IMO

but I appreciate this dialogue, very few people have a good understanding of politics and can talk about it like we can and have these discussions. Most people aren't following the headlines/reading the stories.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Democrat obstruction on Republicans having a majority and an inability to use it because they aren't a coherent party with a message OR EVEN A PLAN (on... covid-19.. obamacare replacement... ) was the right call but it was still a poor move - no across the aisle talks.

All boisterous one-sided talk - all echo chamber noise music for someone like me to listen to while fucked on drugs. No one is convincing one another why this money IS NECESSARY to boost personal purchasing power, in order to SAVE THE ECONOMY AND CONTINUE THE RE=OPENING. The Democrats can't even TRY using Republican lingo to get them interested.

 

[Deru]

"so they need a new party whip" would be a better end to your sentence IMO

Spot on, the trajectory could have led to a completely different outcome had the Senate Republican whip been someone else.

but I appreciate this dialogue, very few people have a good understanding of politics and can talk about it like we can and have these discussions. Most people aren't following the headlines/reading the stories.

Likewise, I love good civil political discussion!

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Spot on, the trajectory could have led to a completely different outcome had the Senate Republican whip been someone else.

TRUMP would have been THE PERFECT whip. He would bully everyone into doing what he wanted, like he has in many situations his whole life.

If I could go back with a time machine and god-like powers, I could make shit better without it looking SUBSTANTIALLY different. I promise

 

[Deru]

TRUMP would have been THE PERFECT whip. He would bully everyone into doing what he wanted, like he has in many situations his whole life.

I never even thought of that, but I could totally see that now that you mention it lol. A real life Francis Underwood, minus the intellectual ability