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The gun thread, reloaded.

I already made a whole big argument about how the rhetoric of freedom vis-a-vis gun control in the States doesn't really fit with the state of our relative freedoms, which you chose to ignore, and repeat your unconsidered dogma: guns make me free!
Self-quote that seemes to express the same kind of idea. Forgive the arrogance, but I'm not even American, my patience for endlessly reiterating the same points isn't endless. Yeah, it don't matter if the plutocrats and the political machines and special interest lobbyists are disenfranchesing you- you've got a Glock! Of course your liberty is assured!
 
I've used this exact sentence word for word at least a dozen times in this thread :P
Sorry Bards. I guess I just got sprung not reading the whole thread.

Great minds?

The idea came to me after watching the film "London Babylon", which highlighted the riots throughout the 20th century.
 
This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine... I'm sure we have that thread already.
 
Guns are nessicary for a free capitalist society. This and my support of the US constitution are my main reason for protesting the politically sensitive. I can tell my beliefs will not be popular on this forum.
 
Guns are nessicary for a free capitalist society.
^Don't a lot of the people who believe the right to bear arms is essential to deter such an invasion, or tyranny of the US government, also believe that they are effectively already undergoing a Mexican invasion, and are already victims of a tyrannical government, and also own lots of guns, that they do fuck-all to solve these problems with, and just use them to shoot their family members more often than criminals? Forgive me if I've not understood the broad contours of certain parts of the political landscape in the states.

I have a confession- I'm unamerican. I am from the UK, live there now. I'm not allowed a handgun. That's OK. I don't need a handgun. The police don't need handguns, either. We get by just fine, and the funny thing is, I am at a hugely lesser risk of being hauled away by paramilitary police to be incarcerated in a privately-run for-profit prison than is a citizen of the United States. It's funny how the land of the free deprives more of its citizens of their liberty than any other nation on the entire planet (Russia, Niger, Iran, Chad...). See, I live in a country where people are openly socialists, and atheists, and think that the way to make schools safer is to have no guns in them, not more. Yet paradoxically, I seem to be more free in many ways. I'm an atheist, and I have Muslim and Jewish and Christian friends, and we are all free to hold those beliefs (free not just from legal sanctions, but social stigma, too). If I was gay, I could enter a legal partnership with the person I wanted to share my life with, like anyone else. If my girlfriend gets pregnant, she can have an abortion. Does the second amendment protect women from the tyranny of men over that deprives them of agency over their own bodies? Does it protect innocent New Mexicans from the tyranny of repeated warrantless body cavity searches? Can anyone actually give a single example of all the guns protecting anyone from governmental oppression? Did Koresh or McVeigh win?

The guns poison not only your nation, but your entire hemisphere, causing the Caribbean and Central American nations to have the highest murder rates in the world (largely because of the huge amounts of money to be made in the international drug trade that is in the hands of criminals because the government of the United States has deprived its people of yet another freedom).You can make your principled arguments, but do you not see the irony of passionately following ideological dogma that flies in the face of pragmatism and experience, whilst holding up pictures of Hitler and Mao and Stalin as examples of how government should not be? Here in the Old World, we do this thing where we change our ideas and our priorities and our laws over time, rather than blindly upholding documents written by people who clearly could not have foreseen what would be politically and socially prudent hundreds of years in the future. We call it "progress". You could look into it.
This is my repost. Your move. No, stupid, wrongheaded ideas usually aren't very popular.
 
Guns are nessicary for a free capitalist society. This and my support of the US constitution are my main reason for protesting the politically sensitive. I can tell my beliefs will not be popular on this forum.

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Guns make me free because I have a gun and if someone tries to steal my hogs I can shoot them with my gun and I don't live in a complex post-industrial society and any threat to my liberty can be eliminated with a 9mm hollowpoint and guns make me free
 
Well you clearly cannot fairly compare the UK to the US. The culture there is far more sensitive as compared to the violent US. I am in no way implyingthat is a good thing by the way.
 
So... the way to address that... is more guns? Or are you saying Britain doesn't have a violent culture? Because we've actually invaded, well, pretty much everyone. Ever. We've spent longer at war than the United States has existing. What would be a more suitable culture to compare to the United States? I mean, I went for a rich post-industrial Anglophone country, if you can't compare the USA to the UK, what exactly can you compare it to?
 
Well you clearly cannot fairly compare the UK to the US. The culture there is far more sensitive as compared to the violent US. I am in no way implyingthat is a good thing by the way.

You're quite well spoken for a gun totin', liberal hatin' good ol' boy...
 
I am no good old boy. I was refering to modern UK not the past. I was tryingg to get you to investigate your crime stats ane compare them to the US.
 
Well, yeah, we have way fewer gun deaths, that's for sure. Because we don't think that everyone having a gun on them all the time is very good. In fact, proportionally, more than twice as many Brits as Americans have been the victims of assault. A British citizen is twice as likely to have been raped as an American. We are still pretty violent; you might have heard about these big huge riots we had a couple of years ago in London. The big difference, though is in... you guessed it, gun crime. See, it's not that our cultures are so different, or that we here in the UK are just inherently less violent. It's actually that guns, shockingly, are in themselves dangerous.
 
^ wrong. u.s. society has a gun problem. in 2013 over 11,000 people were killed with a gun. over 28,000 since sandy hook. that's 90 a day.

the answer to this problem is? more guns, obviously.

alasdair
 
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