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The gun thread, reloaded.

But you see, CCW permit holders aren't the only ones carrying guns. I don't necessarily have a problem with licensed, experienced, trained and responsible citizens carrying guns. It's the laissez-faire free for all laws regarding ownership coupled with a commercialized and extravagant industry that pumps out millions and millions of weapons every year, which makes them extremely available to criminals and plainly irresponsible owners.

Combine this with a socio-economic situation where crime is incentivised and you have a very broken society. See: Brazil
 
Bardeaux said:
But you see, CCW permit holders aren't the only ones carrying guns. I don't necessarily have a problem with licensed, experienced, trained and responsible citizens carrying guns. It's the laissez-faire free for all laws regarding ownership coupled with a commercialized and extravagant industry that pumps out millions and millions of weapons every year, which makes them extremely available to criminals and plainly irresponsible owners.

Combine this with a socio-economic situation where crime is incentivised and you have a very broken society. See: Brazil
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Lol it was an 8 hour class for me to get my CCW and the test couldnt be failed by a blind person but I suppose they did background check me pretty thoroughly. I even got a TN CCW hat upon completion <not joking>. Remember it is illegal to carry a firearm without a CCW in most states. We have plenty of laws on the books already. At the end of the day if a criminal wants a gun he is going to get one. Everything your side proposes simply wants to limit the access of weapons to law abiding citizens and that was ruled unconstitutional.
 
Droppersneck said:
Everything your side proposes simply wants to limit the access of weapons to law abiding citizens and that was ruled unconstitutional.
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Erm, when? It wasn't in 1934 when the Firearms Act was passed. Or in 1968 when the Gun Control Act was passed. Or in 1994 when the assault weapons ban was implemented.

Lol it was an 8 hour class for me to get my CCW and the test couldnt be failed by a blind person
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This is more or less what I'm talking about. If you can walk in drunk, sit through a lecture and pass a 10 question multiple choice quiz you're not necessarily trained to carry a concealed weapon in public. And these people can carry them in bars in your state 8o

It's no wonder why Tennessee is ranked as the most dangerous state in America.
 
Bardeaux said:
This is more or less what I'm talking about. If you can walk in drunk, sit through a lecture and pass a 10 question multiple choice quiz you're not necessarily trained to carry a concealed weapon in public. And these people can carry them in bars in your state 8o

It's no wonder why Tennessee is ranked as the most dangerous state in America.
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Actually the outlier areas like Memphis and parts of Nashville are what skew the stats. No safer place than the country or suburbs of middle TN. My point is all these things you are concerned with are in regards to the law abiding citizen. I have everyone of my fingerprints on file and it took 150 bucks and a month to process me. I feel personally this should be a states rights issue just like with gay marriage. Blue states can enact these tougher laws so that americans can have a choice of what america they want to live in. Something of note is that Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the country.
 
Not particularly. There are plenty of places where guns should not be allowed. However, gun free cities won't work if every city surrounding them has a gun shop on every corner.
 
You you be adverse towards putting a sign in the window of your house that stated this is a gun free household? Your let ban of all firearms mindset is not plausible, is unconstitutional, and just plain unamerican.

Lets just agree to disagree. Just remember b/c the majority of the population, the constitution, and most current laws are on my side I am the ultimate victor of this discussion.. Please refrain from using any slavery references I find it offensive.
 
Droppersneck said:
Your let ban of all firearms mindset is not plausible, is unconstitutional, and just plain unamerican.
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It's also not my position.....

Lets just agree to disagree. Just remember b/c the majority of the population, the constitution, and most current laws are on my side
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This couldn't be further from the truth, but still. Let's agree to disagree :)
 
alasdairm said:
nobody (here as far as i can tell) is saying that. nobody.

alasdair
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I am! But, then again, I don't live in Crazyville and have actually seen a society function quite well AFTER banning the vast majority of guns so, you know, I'm still innocent enough to dream the impossible 8)
 
^I spent some time there and felt extremely safe in most areas when compared to much of America. Tbh, I felt more comfortable walking through a metro area after dark than I did anywhere in florida.

But the roots of gun culture are extremely deep in America. I suppose they are in Canada, Finland and Switzerland too. However these countries are also much more socially and economically responsible than the US.
 
Handguns are for fighting your way back to your rifle in a firefight. 870 12ga with 00 and an 18" barel is the way to go. Get a light mount somewhere on it and youve got all you need. Unless you aare expecting a mass home invasion then an ar platform type weapon would be ideal bc of capacity. Id like to eventually buy/build a 30 cal poss 300blk out rifle on an ar platform with a supressor and shroud cover similar to the honey badger. There is another company out making a similar gun but it doesnt require the 3 tax stamps like the badger. I just love the look of a shrouded supressor. Wouldnt be for home for home defense, tho you could get subsonic rounds which wouldnt penetrate too much. Reg rounds would slap the target like a ton of bricks. Ive always wanted a henry rifle too in 44mag, maybe get a horse too and a colt peacemaker lol.
 
^A country in its infancy with no standing army, natives to defend against and exterminate, common slave and peasant revolts and no police force to enforce new laws might require well regulated and trained militias for the security of the new "free" state. It's just good revolutionary strategy. Revolutions with centralized authority create vacuums, power struggles, violence and infighting, and conflict for control that can last for a century. See: The French revolution of the same era. A decentralized approach to building a new country, with states raising their own militias instead of trying to first establish a large national army eliminates much of this chaos. However, the national army is pretty well established now.

Remember, there were several revolts among the newly independent population that were crushed by George Washington and his successors. The right wasn't granted to remove the new government.
 
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I am just glad people of your mindset are in the vast minority! There are still a number of populations in the US that would revolt against the US government so I fail to see your point. For the record I hope our government never fails and continues for a 1000 years without incidence, but if something does ever happen at least our population will have the basic tools necessary to resist. Just think if in the last ghetto in Poland the Jews that had staged that revolt would have had proper weapons due to a constitutional amendment. They may of had a fighting chance against the horrors of authoritarian socialism..
 
Droppersneck said:
I am just glad people of your mindset are in the vast minority! There are still a number of populations in the US that would revolt against the US government so I fail to see your point. For the record I hope our government never fails and continues for a 1000 years without incidence, but if something does ever happen at least our population will have the basic tools necessary to resist. Just think if in the last ghetto in Poland the Jews that had staged that revolt would have had proper weapons due to a constitutional amendment. They may of had a fighting chance against the horrors of authoritarian socialism..
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There were quite a few armed revolts against Nazi occupation, which were met with a similar end as the unarmed uprisings. The armed revolt in Hungary against the USSR- also an awful failure. The Whiskey Rebellion in 1791 Pennsylvania, ditto.

I'm not arguing that there aren't potential revolutionaries in the US. I'm arguing that the right to own muskets in 1789 wasn't given to overthrow the US government, this is demonstrated by the early rebellions violently put down by the very same generation that wrote the document. It was given to provide order and security in a newly free, collection of otherwise defenseless agrarian states.
 
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