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The gun thread, reloaded.

LosBlancos said:
Guns are bad and so are police officers. So I guess when some thug wants to mug us when we're walking down an alley or storms into our house to rob us and rape the women in our home we should just start praying and hope for the best?
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Put a full ban on police officers and legalize all guns i say. I don't know about you but i have yet to see a case where a cop actually stopped a crime from happening. Except for the very odd feel good story of the week. If someone tried to break into my place id go grab my 12 gauge pump action Winchester not call the fucking piggies. Id be more afraid of the cops turning up and accidentally shooting me then i would of the burglar trying to do it. If i lived in a place where getting mugged was likely id just carry a little something like a .380 which would fit nice in my pocket. Not much good if someones already got a gun pointed on you but still more useful then a cop.
 
LIBERALS
I love how u lump us all together. I consider myself liberal- a self described gun toting democrat. If u look back the democrats were for the working class and the Republicans were against centralized government. How it has come to this - is all money and talk show hosts.
 
paranoid android said:
Put a full ban on police officers and legalize all guns i say.
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LOL, yeah like that would ever happen... Who exactly is going to ban the police anyways? Congress? I honestly don't even know how you can take the delusional shit you say on here seriously. I don't think a lawless society is anything to be glorified. And besides that, you would just end up with citizens forming vigilante groups. If you think those would be any less corrupt than cops I think you would be sadly mistaken.

paranoid android said:
I don't know about you but i have yet to see a case where a cop actually stopped a crime from happening. Except for the very odd feel good story of the week.
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Just a year ago or so the school officer for the high school here stopped a guy armed with a gun and knives from making his way into the school. After he tackled the guy they got into a wrestling match and the guy tried to grab for a gun and the officer shot the guy dead. If the officer hadn't been there and acted there likely would've been coverage of another school shooting in the local news. Like it or not cops are people and inherently there's going to be some bad apples, but it's no different than anything else. I think the media tends to always dwell on the negative anyways and you hardly ever hear about anything good that cops do. I think if anything there needs to be better training for police officers, but to think that there would ever be a "ban" on cops is nothing more than a delusional anarchistic pipe dream.
 
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nuttynutskin said:
LOL, yeah like that would ever happen... Who exactly is going to ban the police anyways? Congress? I honestly don't even know how you can take the delusional shit you say on here seriously. I don't think a lawless society is anything to be glorified. And besides that, you would just end up with citizens forming vigilante groups. If you think those would be any less corrupt than cops I think you would be sadly mistaken.
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Do you honestly think it's police officers that make society's laws or for that matter stop people from breaking them? It's society's standards that set the laws (or such would be the case in a system that represented the people) and it's usually up to the person themselves if they are going to break a law. Unless your a fucking psychopath your going to think alot harder about say killing someone then i don't know stealing a case of beer. I live in a place where until say 10 years ago the police where not called for anything less then a very serious crime (someone getting killed or being a pedophile as 2 examples) and you didn't commit certain acts because you where afraid of being totally ostracized from the community or if it was serious enough fucked up by whoever you fucked over. The place was so rat proof that the cops didn't even bother trying to get a snitch in our high school as noone would do business with anyone they didn't know and if they got caught they wouldn't give up anyone anyway. It was when people did start ratting and talking to the police that violence actually went up and one has to wonder if this is the intended effect of it.



Just a year ago or so the school officer for the high school here stopped a guy armed with a gun and knives from making his way into the school. After he tackled the guy they got into a wrestling match and the guy tried to grab for a gun and the officer shot the guy dead. If the officer hadn't been there and acted there likely would've been coverage of another school shooting in the local news. Like it or not cops are people and inherently there's going to be some bad apples, but it's no different than anything else. I think the media tends to always dwell on the negative anyways and you hardly ever hear about anything good that cops do. I think if anything there needs to be better training for police officers, but to think that there would ever be a "ban" on cops is nothing more than a delusional anarchistic pipe dream.
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And some firemen got some nice fluffy kitten off a street light pole here the other year. So what? Sure there are cops with good intentions but the system itself does not have those good intentions. Any good actions they may do are nullified because of their purpose which is to protect the state against the people. Also the fact that you think the forces of the state could be not disbanded somehow just shows how you elevate them to a status somehow above us.
 
I can agree with how you have come to this conclusion but I dont think a society without cops would be much better. Shit, I dont know, maybe it would be better now that i think about it. One thing i dont like is the argument of how they have to deal with dickheads everyday so that excuses some of their piggish behavior. Sorry but they all knew what they were getting into when they signed up for that shit.

I think its really bad right now but I think a few changes in how things work would make things better. The simple fact of charging a police officer like a everyday citizen in court would be a deterrent. They use more force then needed then they should be treated like you or me in court. Im sure they feel untouchable but i bet you if cops started going away with some decent time, you wouldnt see as much violence. Put them in general population too.

I feel that if they all had to wear cameras that would bring down the violence. Also you gotta see how a story about a cop doing a random act of kindness or a story about a cop causing is going to be played differently. Obviously the cop causing harm is going to be shown more. But I can understand where your coming from. Except for one time, all the cops Ive come into contect with have been dicks that just harass people more then anything. Even when i was growing up i had a friend whose Dad was a cop and he was also a dick. None of the kids liked him. Only his fat wife that didnt do shit all day.
 
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legalizeall said:
I can agree with how you have come to this conclusion but I dont think a society without cops would be much better. Shit, I dont know, maybe it would be better now that i think about it. One thing i dont like is the argument of how they have to deal with dickheads everyday so that excuses some of their piggish behavior. Sorry but they all knew what they were getting into when they signed up for that shit.

I think its really bad right now but I think a few changes in how things work would make things better. The simple fact of charging a police officer like a everyday citizen in court would be a deterrent. They use more force then needed then they should be treated like you or me in court. Im sure they feel untouchable but i bet you if cops started going away with some decent time, you wouldnt see as much violence. Put them in general population too.

I feel that if they all had to wear cameras that would bring down the violence. Also you gotta see how a story about a cop doing a random act of kindness or a story about a cop causing is going to be played differently. Obviously the cop causing harm is going to be shown more. But I can understand where your coming from. Except for one time, all the cops Ive come into contect with have been dicks that just harass people more then anything. Even when i was growing up i had a friend whose Dad was a cop and he was also a dick. None of the kids liked him. Only his fat wife that didnt do shit all day.
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Good point about cops being charged in civilian court just like you or i would. No doubt if they where up on the docket and not given any favoritism they would think very hard about doing anything to get them arrested again. I have seen plenty of incidents where cops got away with shit that would land the likes of us in the clink and up on assault charges. If a cop did time in gen pop here (which would never happen) they certainly wouldn't want to go back there as cops are treated as lower then scum in prison.

I have not had a good experience with any cops i met socially either. Most of them are fat, power hungry bastards who act like bullies. Hell there was a case here the other year of a cop biting someones nose off in a fucking bar fight. I've seen some fucked up shit happen in scraps but i have never seen someone bite someone else's body parts off! He was off duty and tried as a civilian but i don't know how much time he did if any.
 
I love hearing Canadian's disparage American police officers. If the population of Chicago, Oakland, New Orleans, Miami, almost any major American city moved to your town you would understand very quickly why police officer's are necessary.
 
LosBlancos said:
I love hearing Canadian's disparage American police officers. If the population of Chicago, Oakland, New Orleans, Miami, almost any major American city moved to your town you would understand very quickly why police officer's are necessary.
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No i was criticizing both Canadian police officers and American ones. And believe it or not but Canada has cities with very mixed ethnic backgrounds that have very little violence really. Toronto being a example of that. Plus why would i need a cop? To come pick up my corpse after i had been killed 8)
 
paranoid android said:
No i was criticizing both Canadian police officers and American ones. And believe it or not but Canada has cities with very mixed ethnic backgrounds that have very little violence really. Toronto being a example of that. Plus why would i need a cop? To come pick up my corpse after i had been killed 8)
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The vast majority of Toronto's visible minorities are Asian.

Overall Canada is around 2-3% of African origin, while the United States is 14%. Overall the populace is much more "diverse" in America. You pick a singular city to illustrate your point while the statistics and facts remain on the side of logic.

It strikes me as peculiar that a demographic in the U.S. which is only about 14% of the total population commits over half of all murders here, they are only 2% of the Canadian population where there is significantly less murders. Coincidence? Perhaps, who knows?
 
LosBlancos said:
It strikes me as peculiar that a demographic in the U.S. which is only about 14% of the total population commits over half of all murders here, they are only 2% of the Canadian population where there is significantly less murders. Coincidence? Perhaps, who knows?
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Although if you want to use the murder rate to imply something about a race, last time I checked, the white-only murder rate in the US was about twice as high as many European nations.
 
paranoid android said:
And some firemen got some nice fluffy kitten off a street light pole here the other year. So what?
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So I'm not convinced that all cops are Nazi killing machines gunning down innocent people for no reason.

paranoid android said:
Sure there are cops with good intentions but the system itself does not have those good intentions. Any good actions they may do are nullified because of their purpose which is to protect the state against the people.
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So a cop that just risked their life to save someone else's is without merit? Can't say I agree with that either.

paranoid android said:
Also the fact that you think the forces of the state could be not disbanded somehow just shows how you elevate them to a status somehow above us.
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Now you're just putting words in my mouth. I never once said that I thought cops are above the average citizen although their jobs entail things that the average citizen doesn't have to worry about. But the idea that somehow cops are going to be banned or disbanded in modern society is just silly and you still haven't told me how you envision such a thing happening. As long as there's violence and crime there's going to be a need for some sort of law enforcement whether it's the police force, groups of citizens, whatever. And you still didn't tell me why you think groups of vigilantes would be any less corrupt than the police force.
 
LosBlancos said:
I love hearing Canadian's disparage American police officers. If the population of Chicago, Oakland, New Orleans, Miami, almost any major American city moved to your town you would understand very quickly why police officer's are necessary.
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I agree. It seems like it's always the same thing on here... Someone from another country that is cut off from the sort of violence that goes on in our inner cities ragging on the U.S.
 
nuttynutskin said:
But the idea that somehow cops are going to be banned or disbanded in modern society is just silly and you still haven't told me how you envision such a thing happening. As long as there's violence and crime there's going to be a need for some sort of law enforcement whether it's the police force, groups of citizens, whatever. And you still didn't tell me why you think groups of vigilantes would be any less corrupt than the police force.
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well there have been a few cops driven out of here like one cunt who pissed off the wrong people and they blew out his front window with a shotgun. I don't think it's a coincidence that he was transferred shortly after. Granted that's hardly the way to go about it. Creating no go zones for the police has been done before through both peaceful means and violent confrontation with the police. In regards to vigilante groups they are every bit as bad as the police force. I guess a democratically elected community watch type thing could be created in a autonomous region. As most crimes are fairly minor in nature it's not like you'd need the Gestapo or anything to police a community.

The major point being that if the police where abolished tomorrow the only thing that would change would be there would be alot of police on the unemployment line. People aren't going to suddenly start committing crimes just because there are no laws on the books anymore.
 
paranoid android said:
In regards to vigilante groups they are every bit as bad as the police force. I guess a democratically elected community watch type thing could be created in a autonomous region. As most crimes are fairly minor in nature it's not like you'd need the Gestapo or anything to police a community.
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Again, easy to say if you don't live in a major U.S. city. How is a "community watch type thing" going to realistically work in a place like Chicago where you have 14 year old gang members shooting each other? Do you think it's fair that the citizens would have to deal with the rampant gang violence on their own with no law enforcement to be found? I don't think you've thought your plan out very well honestly. Just because you live on an island where according to you the police aren't needed hardly means it's representative of other places.

paranoid android said:
The major point being that if the police where abolished tomorrow the only thing that would change would be there would be alot of police on the unemployment line. People aren't going to suddenly start committing crimes just because there are no laws on the books anymore.
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Who would be responsible for getting violent criminals off the street? Who would be responsible for cracking down on gang violence? Who would be responsible for a lot of times being first responders to an emergency? Etc., etc. Obviously there's a need for those things in modern society that surely someone would have to fill. If you're also against groups of citizen vigilantes that doesn't really leave many options.
 
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