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Election 2020 The Final Countdown v. Nov. 3rd

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seriously though this is the longest "final countdown" in my life it seems
This is why conservatives push for one person = one vote, with voter IDs and registration; to slow the fraud.
one person = one vote = no EC, it's not conservatives pushing for that
voter ID wouldn't have prevented this fraud scheme (if it happened, which I doubt): you just pay people to show their IDs, wow, very secure

also while paying people to vote is a little sketchy, you'll notice that nowhere in that lurid rant did anyone describe being told who to vote for only that they should vote
 
So, what’s more worrisome this year? The potential small amount of fraud that has taken place every election

That's the thing, we have no idea how big or small it is. But the more it gets exposed, the more it can be addressed. Regardless of who is doing it.

[/quote]or Trump encouraging people to stand outside polling places and intimidate people and openly and actively suppress votes?
[/QUOTE]

At least that, if it were to happen, would be known and addressed (videos, MSM wall to wall coverage, legal action). That tactic is transparent and dumb, and while I can't recall Trump (or anyone) encouraging that, it's nice you think only Trump and his supporters would consider it.
 
one person = one vote = no EC, it's not conservatives pushing for that

conservatives aren't including the EC part. That's from the progressives anytime they lose. Rs want to keep it as they can't win the popular vote.

voter ID wouldn't have prevented this fraud scheme (if it happened, which I doubt): you just pay people to show their IDs, wow, very secure

Agreed, ballot harvesting (even with voter IDs) is still ripe with corruption.

also while paying people to vote is a little sketchy, you'll notice that nowhere in that lurid rant did anyone describe being told who to vote for only that they should vote

Which rant? Mine, or the last quote from the Dem in MN who repeatedly stated people are paid for their vote? To your point, it doesn't explicitly say who the vote is cast for, but it is from a Dem talking about Dem operations in MN and citizens who explicitly state the equivalent of 'you want my vote, you pay me'. And, for anywhere ballot harvesting occurs, any votes not FOR the group doing the collecting....you think those make it in to be counted?
 
I wasn’t aware that Trump used the Oath Keepers for security at his rally (bolded paragraph below).
Donald Trump's Call to Militia to 'Watch' Polling Places Raises Fears of Voter Intimidation

This story is being co-published with Capital & Main

At 2020's first (and perhaps only) presidential debate, President Trump's plea to his "people" to "go into the polls and watch very carefully" got the attention of voting advocates and militia members alike. And no wonder: private militias have become a very visible symbol of polarized America, and have been deploying themselves with increasing belligerence at anti-racism rallies and other social protests. Last week, in a sign portending major escalation of militia violence, 13 men were arrested in a kidnapping plot against Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer.

"Hate groups," declared Whitmer, "heard the president's words not as a rebuke but as a rallying cry, as a call to action."

Federal law bans any activity that would "intimidate, threaten, or coerce a person" to interfere with the right to vote, but doesn't prohibit citizens from, say, brandishing submachine guns in the parking lots outside polling locations. Those laws, written in seemingly more genteel times, did not anticipate political actors with names like the Wolverine Watchmen, Pennsylvania Patriots United and the III% Defense Militia.

But this election is unfolding against a backdrop where a variety of militias and other right-wing groups have felt emboldened, in large part by Trump's repeated refusal to denounce them, and, at times, his tacit encouragement of them. Trump didn't specify how his "people" should monitor urban polling centers, to counter unfounded claims of "massive voter fraud," nor did he say which such groups should go to the polls, except for a shout-out to the Proud Boys to "stand by."

One group, the Oath Keepers, has even provided "security" at Trump events, and earlier this year, when Trump tweeted that his impeachment meant America was on the brink of a civil war, the founder of the Oath Keepers, Stewart Rhodes, apparently agreed in a tweet that has been attributed to him: "We ARE on the verge of a HOT civil war. Like in 1859. That's where we are." Rhodes has said the group's goal is "to get patriots prepared and ready to defend their homes, towns, and counties from the ongoing Marxist insurrection we now see erupting and expanding nationwide."

Early Voting, Vote By Mail And Absentee Voting: Terms Explained As Election Day Draws Near
Just days before the Whitmer kidnapping plot was exposed, the Department of Homeland Security had released its first annual Homeland Threat Assessment, summarizing domestic terrorism threats and warning "ideologically motivated lone offenders and small groups" of "Domestic Violent Extremists" are now a likely terrorist threat. Last month, a report by the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence predicted that "significant numbers of people will bring guns to polling places under the guise of preventing election fraud."

Militias, freelancing "poll watchers" and guys with guns

Both voter intimidation and election dirty tricks in the U.S. are nothing new, and just earlier this month two men were charged with four felony counts for disseminating robocalls in majority-Black Detroit that claimed that if listeners voted by mail they could be subject to arrest, debt collection and forced vaccination.

Although California is not considered a swing state, the state GOP is engaging what could be considered a dirty trick—setting up unofficial ballot drop boxes in front of conservative churches, gun stores and other likely Republican gathering spots in several counties, in defiance of a cease and desist order by the secretary of state and attorney general. The motive is unclear, but observers have said it could be an attempt to muddy election results or claim voter fraud if votes deposited in the boxes aren't counted.

But these seem like Halloween pranks compared to the blockading of polling stations by men dressed in camo and armed for World War III. According to the American Civil Liberties Union, voter intimidation includes aggressive questioning, harassment or threats. Six states—Arizona, California, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana and Texas—prohibit guns in polling locations. However, even in states with open carry laws and no restrictions on guns at locations that host polling, such as churches and schools, prohibitions on guns prevail, according to Suzanne Almeida, interim executive director of Common Cause Pennsylvania.

"There are valid concerns now," Almeida added, "but we must let voters know about them without involuntarily discouraging them from coming to the polls."

A report on voter intimidation from the Brennan Center for Justice states that not only are freelance militia members not allowed at polls, armed federal law enforcement isn't allowed to intimidate voters either: "State and local laws and practices place limits on the role of law enforcement and poll watchers. And a host of federal and state laws, many of which also carry severe criminal penalties, prevent anyone—whether a law enforcement officer or a vigilante—from harassing or intimidating voters."

Elected officials, at least Democratic ones, are preempting any activity by armed poll disruptors. Attorneys general of Michigan, Nevada and Wisconsin, all swing states, have pledged to prosecute anyone who intimidates voters in any way. Larry Krasner, the district attorney for Philadelphia, a city where Trump has claimed unspecified "very bad things are happening" at the polls, vowed that anyone who tried to suppress the vote would be jailed.

California Secretary of State Alex Padilla said, in an email, that while he expected a safe voting experience for all Californians, "Elections officials are prepared for any attempts to disrupt or interfere with voting. California voters should be assured that we are in close contact with elections officials across the state, and will address any issues during in-person voting." He added that poll monitors would be dispatched throughout the state.

A spokesperson for the Nevada AG told Capital & Main its office was "actively working with the Secretary of State's Office and other members of her Election Integrity Task Force, including federal and local authorities, to address any crimes related to voting," and was "fully confident in the security of Nevada's election and the ability of Nevada voters to safely exercise their right to vote."

Not every state is so upfront about telling voters how to handle possible intimidation. Florida, for example—a key swing state—has a voter fraud hotline, but not one for voter intimidation.

Other Sources:

 
I wasn’t aware that Trump used the Oath Keepers for security at his rally

Neither was I. Wonder why the Secret Service isn't enough for his ego him?



As to militia at polling places, yeah I could see it as intimidation. I could also see it as exercising your God given rights in states where it is allowed. You have no idea how many conceal carries take the weapon with them when voting. This at least keeps it visible, and as I mentioned earlier, accountable.
 
Neither was I. Wonder why the Secret Service isn't enough for his ego him?



As to militia at polling places, yeah I could see it as intimidation. I could also see it as exercising your God given rights in states where it is allowed. You have no idea how many conceal carries take the weapon with them when voting. This at least keeps it visible, and as I mentioned earlier, accountable.
Many states have amended laws to prevent things like this from happening.

MI was one of the latest I heard about.
 
I'm still putting fraud content in this thread because, well....something has to fill the time until the election, and there is a lot of concern over voting integrity.


New Data Analysis Finds 353 Counties With 1.8 Million More Registered Voters Than Eligible Citizens

A total of 353 counties in 29 U.S. states have 1.8 million more registered voters than eligible voting-age citizens, according to an analysis by Judicial Watch.

In addition, eight states, including Alaska, Colorado, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, New Jersey, Rhode Island, and Vermont, were found to have statewide registered voter totals that exceeded 100 percent of eligible voters, according to the nonprofit government watchdog.

Judicial Watch compared the registration data available for 37 states with the U.S. Census Bureau’s most recently available American Community Survey (ACS) numbers for the period 2014–2018 on a county-by-county basis.

“This new study shows 1.8 million excess, or ‘ghost’ voters, in 353 counties across 29 states,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton in a statement announcing the study Oct. 16. “This data highlights the recklessness of mailing blindly ballots and ballot applications to voter registration lists. Dirty voting rolls can mean dirty elections.”
...
States are required under a federal law approved in 1993 to make all reasonable efforts to maintain updated voter registration rolls, but enforcement of the statute was almost nonexistent until recent years when Judicial Watch began suing individual states.

Earlier this month, for example, Judicial Watch sued Colorado seeking to force it to clean up its registration rolls. At least 42 of Colorado’s 60 counties have more registered voters than eligible citizens, according to the latest Judicial Watch analysis. Denver County’s registered voter total equals 103 percent.

The nonprofit sued Illinois in federal court in September seeking to obtain registration data the state has refused to make available, a violation of the 1993 law.
...
President Donald Trump has repeatedly predicted that the widespread use of mail-in ballots will encourage voting fraud, potentially delaying by days or even weeks a clear determination of whether he or Democratic rival former Vice President Joe Biden, will occupy the Oval Office in 2021.

“There is fraud; they found them in creeks, they found them with the name Trump in a wastepaper basket,” Trump declared during his first nationally televised debate with Biden. “This will be a fraud like you have never seen.”

In one case, Stefan Neimann, a German journalist living in the District of Columbia, reported receiving three blank mail-in ballots, including one to an individual known to be deceased.

“The chaos that Trump lamented with the delivery of mail voting papers is here. I am not allowed to vote here,” Niemann wrote in a tweet, according to a translation.

“But three ballots came to my Washington address: for the previous tenant who moved five years ago, the landlady living in Puerto Rico, and her deceased husband,” he said.

Biden insisted during the debate, however, that there is “no evidence” of fraudulent mail-in voting.


In addition, eight states, including Alaska, Colorado, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, New Jersey, Rhode Island, and Vermont, were found to have statewide registered voter totals that exceeded 100 percent of eligible voters, according to the nonprofit government watchdog.

Why are so many Blue states having this issue? We hear all about systemic racism, but not systemic voter fraud.
 
So, we're supposed to have another debate this week? Agenda was set...but....

Presidential Debate Commission Ditches Foreign Policy Focus Following Hunter Biden Laptop Leaks

THE THIRD PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE – SET TO TAKE PLACE ON THURSDAY – WAS ORIGINALLY SUPPOSED TO CENTER ON FOREIGN POLICY. BUT FOLLOWING THE RELEASE OF THE HUNTER BIDEN E-MAILS/LAPTOP DETAILS IN THE NEW YORK POST, THE WILDLY PARTISAN PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES COMMISSION ANNOUNCED THAT WOULD NO LONGER BE THE CASE, THE EFFECT BEING THE PROTECTION OF JOE AND HUNTER BIDEN.


and, because debates are fair and moderators are neutral 8(

Thursday night’s moderator, Kristen Welker, has already been called into question given her family has donated thousands to Democrats including Joe Biden. Welker even took her father to Obama and Biden’s Christmas Party in 2012.
 
I can’t help but think that there was always a small portion of fraud in elections, the difference being this year it’s going to be looked at with intense scrutiny and completely overamplified to help Trump build his case to challenge the election results.

So, what’s more worrisome this year? The potential small amount of fraud that has taken place every election, or Trump encouraging people to stand outside polling places and intimidate people and openly and actively suppress votes?

Conservatives seem to only worry about there being even the tiniest bit of fraud contaminating the integrity of the electoral system when it happens to also have the side effect of improving their election prospects.

A coincidence to be sure.
 
@TheLoveBandit wild theory you have.

Alaska, Colorado, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, New Jersey, Rhode Island, and Vermont

None of which are swing states.

What causes this is people sign up to vote, move, die, etc. and the locale doesn't purge the list quickly enough, or are stopped from doing so by the ACLU. Are you going to blame the Dems for that?

Look at the states listed. None of those are swing states.

This is not phenomena that indicates fraud whatsoever.

and, because debates are fair and moderators are neutral 8(
President Donald Trump donated to Kamala Harris before.

So really I don't even see why you would think that's a problem.
 
seriously though this is the longest "final countdown" in my life it seems

one person = one vote = no EC,

Lol, that was actually my first reaction too. I didn't bother saying it though cause I suspected I'd just get all the usual electoral college rationale in reply.
 
Oh wait is Michigan a swing state this time?

That might be the only one that's a "maybe".

He still won Michigan in 2016 though, right?

696px-ElectoralCollege2016.svg.png


So much fraud. 8(
 
Oh wait is Michigan a swing state this time?

That might be the only one that's a "maybe".

He still won Michigan in 2016 though, right?

696px-ElectoralCollege2016.svg.png


So much fraud. 8(

Wow, I either didn't realize or forgot how many faithless electors there were in 2016. Probably the former. I was doing a lot of heroin in 2016. Certainly took the edge off trumps victory though. :D

Although too be fair, I didn't hate trump yet in 2016, or if I did it was nothing compared to today. Back then I just thought of him as a misogynist asshole joke candidate. Not yet quite the threat to the world and America's future I think of him as now.
 
Wow, I either didn't realize or forgot how many faithless electors there were in 2016. Probably the former. I was doing a lot of heroin in 2016. Certainly took the edge off trumps victory though. :D

Although too be fair, I didn't hate trump yet in 2016, or if I did it was nothing compared to today. Back then I just thought of him as a misogynist asshole joke candidate. Not yet quite the threat to the world and America's future I think of him as now.
It's all good. It was a crazy election that's for sure.
 
They are muting the microphones during two minute replies during the second (actual) debate. Will Trump participate? I think he has to if he wants to try to turn things his way.
Former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden and U.S. President Donald Trump will have their microphones muted during portions of the second and final presidential debate on Thursday night, the Commission on Presidential Debates announced on Monday in a decision that will likely anger Trump.

The decision came after the commission met Monday afternoon to discuss potential rule changes to the debate format. They decided that the changes were needed because of how the first debate between Biden and Trump devolved into chaos, with the President frequently interrupting the former vice president.

The change is sure to anger the Trump and his campaign, who have signalled that any changes to the procedures will be unacceptable to them, which the commission acknowledged in its statement.

"We realize, after discussions with both campaigns, that neither campaign may be totally satisfied with the measures announced today," the statement read. "One may think they go too far, and one may think they do not go far enough. We are comfortable that these actions strike the right balance and that they are in the interest of the American people, for whom these debates are held."

The muting will work like this: At the start of each of the six segments of the debate, each candidate will be given two minutes to answer an initial question. During that portion, the opposing candidate's microphone will be muted.

"Under the agreed upon debate rules, each candidate is to have two minutes of uninterrupted time to make remarks at the beginning of each 15 minute segment of the debate. These remarks are to be followed by a period of open discussion," the commission said in a statement. "Both campaigns this week again reaffirmed their agreement to the two-minute, uninterrupted rule."

The statement continued: "The Commission is announcing today that in order to enforce this agreed upon rule, the only candidate whose microphone will be open during these two-minute periods is the candidate who has the floor under the rules. For the balance of each segment, which by design is intended to be dedicated to open discussion, both candidates' microphones will be open."

Both microphones will be unmuted after each candidate delivers their two-minute answer.

"During the times dedicated for open discussion, it is the hope of the Commission that the candidates will be respectful of each other's time, which will advance civil discourse for the benefit of the viewing public," the statement reads. "As in the past, the moderator will apportion roughly equal amounts of time between the two speakers over the course of the 90 minutes. Time taken up during any interruptions will be returned to the other candidate."

The commission's second presidential debate was canceled after Trump declined to participate in a virtual contest, a change that was made because of his positive coronavirus diagnosis.

Following the first debate, the commission did not specify what changes they would be making, but their statement at the time said they intended "to ensure that additional tools to maintain order are in place for the remaining debates."

The commission was also set to certify that both Trump and Biden have met the 15% polling threshold needed to qualify for the debate at the Monday meeting.

Biden had made clear that he wanted the debate commission to change the rules, and said the way Trump conducted himself at the first debate was a "national embarrassment."

"I just hope there's a way in which the debate commission can control the ability of us to answer the questions without interruptions," Biden said the day after the first debate.

The Trump campaign had earlier come out against any changes to the rules. Campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh told CNN in a statement after the first debate that the commission "shouldn't be moving the goalposts and changing the rules in the middle of the game."

In a letter to the commission on Monday, Trump campaign manager Bill Stepien had previously called muting the candidates' microphones "unacceptable."

"It is completely unacceptable for anyone to wield such power, and a decision to proceed with that change amounts to turning further editorial control of the debate over to the Commission which has already demonstrated its partiality to Biden," Stepien wrote in a statement issued before the campaign agreed to the change.

He had also taken issue with the topics announced for Thursday's debate for not being focused more on foreign policy. The commission announced last week that the topics would be "Fighting COVID-19," "American Families," "Race in America," "Climate Change," "National Security" and "Leadership."

"We urge you to recalibrate the topics," Stepien wrote in the letter. At no point did Stepien indicate that Trump will pull out of the third debate if the change is not made.

Biden spokesman TJ Ducklo responded to the Trump campaign's complaint, saying in a statement, "The campaigns and the Commission agreed months ago that the debate moderator would choose the topics. The Trump campaign is lying about that now because Donald Trump is afraid to face more questions about his disastrous COVID response. As usual, the president is more concerned with the rules of a debate than he is getting a nation in crisis the help it needs."

This story and its headline have been updated with the commission's change to the debate's rules and comments from the Trump and Biden campaigns.
 
I just read that. There's no way Trump won't participate.

I can't believe he's finally blatantly trashing and throwing Fauci under the bus.

He really is a desperate and awful human being.

I for some naive reason at least assumed Fauci was off limits....
 
I just read that. There's no way Trump won't participate.

I can't believe he's finally blatantly trashing and throwing Fauci under the bus.

He really is a desperate and awful human being.

I for some naive reason at least assumed Fauci was off limits....

Silly, silly, Deru. Nothing is off limits...other than Jesus, Reagan, and Big Oil.

Science and thus scientists are the devil because they have college degrees and think they're better than us.
 
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