The Ferguson thread / additional race discussion

[LosBlancos]

Relevance?

Al Sharpton was one of the people constantly in the media pushing the Ferguson story and framing it for the American people. I find it relevant that he has has been blackmailing corporations with allegations of racism, perhaps you do not?

 

[ebola?]

Well, usually, the most healthily adaptive response to Sharpton is to ignore him. I say we do that in approaching discussion of how the Ferguson events should be framed.

ebola

 

[LosBlancos]

Well, usually, the most healthily adaptive response to Sharpton is to ignore him. I say we do that in approaching discussion of how the Ferguson events should be framed.

ebola

As much as I would like to ignore him, there's no denying the man is hugely influential in American politics (if he wasn't he wouldn't be able to milk companies for millions with the threat of allegations of racism). Most shootings whether by police or by a civilian appear on the local news and are covered briefly in the newspaper, but when Sharpton gets behind a story rest assured it will be covered for months in great depth. He mobilizes massive support and portrays the stories in the frame of the United States being a bleak dystopia for minorities which many people (particularly many on this board) seem eager to embrace.

 

[What 23]

oh i see, you refuse to answer. kudos.

you also ignore the following inconvenient main points:
- genetically, "races" aren't actually different
- nurture and environmental factors affect behaviour substantially more than genes

do you know how DNA evidence is used to match a sample with a criminal? it is not through their active genetic traits, but through the unique mix of inert junk dna. so, how does this match with your presumptions?

You want me to answer if I'm helping or hurting by "pointing the finger", correct? I refuse to stand by while a disproportionate amount of violence occurs against my people, without saying I'm aware of it. As much as I name this, I try to have understanding. I even go beyond the typical "socioeconomic status" argument to bring in that its only been 60 years or so since they gained equal rights, and that I don't believe that that is enough time for it to balance out, and that more than current status effects things. Still, the disparity exists, and I think the pc white community likes to whitewash everything. Other countries with blacks as minorities have similar stats (like London, England), and disproportionate representation in violent crime, and they haven't had the same history as American Blacks. Do you really expect me to just accept the whitewashing? Seriously?

This is about the only question I remember: are you helping or hurting? I answered in the most honest way I can. I don't want to help them become part of our society... So how can I otherwise answer you? Maybe this isn't helping them do that. If they want to rule themselves, I'm fine with that. Good!

Oh- are you a geneticist? "Races" have different frequencies of types genes. I dont know much about genes but this makes enough sense. Their differences are not just chance. And not just immediate "environment". A person from Chad won't suddenly exhibit characteristics common to people to Ireland if he is born from his parents there. His skull and teeth will still be like what it is. No matter if DNA is something I can use to justify difference or not difference is there and will extend beyond skeleton.

On the chimp and human DNA (whoever mentioned this), I've read it is 90%. I read is was 98% for years, but seem to remember reading that it was 90% And 96%, if duplicate genes were adjusted for or something. I don't know.

Here are some other numbers:

Cat: 90%
Cow: 80%
Mouse: 75%
Fruit Fly: 60%
Banana: 50%

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

The stories that survive such as Noah's (who was described as being White with eyes like the sun- probably an albino) sons who were according to some lore White, Black (cursed son Ham), and Brown, was it? Or yellow. Not that I buy the Black or white color explanations, quite. That would almost seem like a joke. Then again, I can't say I don't entertain it sometimes, sometimes against my wishes. I wonder what the flood is? I'm just wondering.

Where in the bible does it describe Noah or his sons' physical appearances?

 

[L2R]

You want me to answer if I'm helping or hurting by "pointing the finger", correct? I refuse to stand by while a disproportionate amount of violence occurs against my people, without saying I'm aware of it. As much as I name this, I try to have understanding. I even go beyond the typical "socioeconomic status" argument to bring in that its only been 60 years or so since they gained equal rights, and that I don't believe that that is enough time for it to balance out, and that more than current status effects things. Still, the disparity exists, and I think the pc white community likes to whitewash everything. Other countries with blacks as minorities have similar stats (like London, England), and disproportionate representation in violent crime, and they haven't had the same history as American Blacks. Do you really expect me to just accept the whitewashing? Seriously?

This is about the only question I remember: are you helping or hurting? I answered in the most honest way I can. I don't want to help them become part of our society... So how can I otherwise answer you? Maybe this isn't helping them do that. If they want to rule themselves, I'm fine with that. Good!

No one here arguing aganist you wants to "whitewash" anything. We are not in denial that violence does happen. Each case is unique and should be treated as such. Every violent offender needs to be dealt with through the appropriate channels and their unique circumstances considered when determining the degree of their culpability and risk of further harm to society. The pursuit of justice, i think we can all actually agree on.

But where we differ is that we do not make this a colour thing. There is no "us and them" of any consequence here, where are you seem hung up on distinguishing races in terms of criminality, and this paints a skewed picture. It doesn't factor the prejudiced starting point which exists there as well as here. That starting point causes a disproportionately high degree of disenfranchisement felt in certain demographics more than others. That leads to a higher anti-social behaviour rate in those groups also. So, when one gets high and mighty about those groups being bad, one essentially exacerbates that sense of disenfranchisement which is a driving force of anti-social behaviour and crime.

therefore you are part of the problem.

all this "my people" and "them" bullshit is in futile denial of one other blunt fact: you all live in the same community. you all form a part of the same country. by fighting amongst yourselves, you are making your own life worse.

Oh- are you a geneticist? "Races" have different frequencies of types genes. I dont know much about genes but this makes enouh sense. Their differences are not just chance. And not just immediate "environment". A person from Chad won't suddenly exhibit characteristics common to people to Ireland if he is born from his parents there. His skull and teeth will still be like what it is. No matter if DNA is something I can use to justify difference or not difference is there and will extend beyond skeleton.

I have two brothers, one has black hair, the other is a ginger and i have brown hair. our faces don't look alike either. the differences in appearence between races are of as much consequence as the difference in the appearence of my immediate family. evolutionarily speaking, behaviour in our species have been developing over a greater period of time than our fickle physical traits have. to equate these physical differences to explain behaviour is erroneous and a misunderstanding of genes and evolution.

 

[What 23]

Your brother can marry a White girl and he might have a child that resembles you. The odds of this happening if you (he) marries especially a negroid is much less. I see what you are saying but it goes beyond that. Negroid features stick to such a degree that they dominate every other group... And no matter who they breed with, most of the time, the children take after them more.

Muhammad Ali on race mixing

[video=youtube_share;K_QoxMhHTIg]http://youtu.be/K_QoxMhHTIg[/video]

Not that I totally agree with how he puts it, but I appreciate his sentiments.

 

[Bardeaux]

Your brother can marry a White girl and he might have a child that resembles you. The odds of this happening if you (he) marries especially a negroid is much less. I see what you are saying but it goes beyond that. Negroid features stick to such a degree that they dominate every other group... And no matter who they breed with, most of the time, the children take after them more.

If this were the case blond hair and blue eyes would have never existed. Unless the original people of Africa were as ethnically diverse as the world today.

 

[L2R]

i'll interpret your lack of response about being the problem as you either ignoring it because it makes you uncomfortable, or that you are happy to be a part of the problem. so you're either ignorant or hypocritical, i'm not sure which.

Your brother can marry a White girl and he might have a child that resembles you. The odds of this happening if you (he) marries especially a negroid is much less. I see what you are saying but it goes beyond that. Negroid features stick to such a degree that they dominate every other group... And no matter who they breed with, most of the time, the children take after them more.

Muhammad Ali on race mixing

[video=youtube_share;K_QoxMhHTIg]http://youtu.be/K_QoxMhHTIg[/video]

Not that I totally agree with how he puts it, but I appreciate his sentiments.

you missed the main point: appearence is meaningless in terms of behaviour.

evolutionarily speaking, behaviour in our species have been developing over a greater period of time than our fickle physical traits have. to equate these physical differences to explain behaviour is erroneous and a misunderstanding of genes and evolution.

this contradicts your feelings on the subject entirely

 

[What 23]

If this were the case blond hair and blue eyes would have never existed. Unless the original people of Africa were as ethnically diverse as the world today.

Right. They were selected for. Over thousands of years.

 

[What 23]

i'll interpret your lack of response about being the problem as you either ignoring it because it makes you uncomfortable, or that you are happy to be a part of the problem. so you're either ignorant or hypocritical, i'm not sure which.



you missed the main point: appearence is meaningless in terms of behaviour.



this contradicts your feelings on the subject entirely

I've already told you I don't accept this whole multicultural or racial parade that's happening in white countries. I'm not sure how much clearer I can be.

And yea, I understand the emotions of my cat. We have very similar behaviors on many levels. There are subtle differences.

Appearance is not meaningless, either. You make such a claim. Prove it. For me, I'll mention the fact of neuromelanin. Blue eyes correlate with lower levels of this type of melanin, which is found in the brain... Especially around where the stem connects to the brain. There has been at least one study that found that people with brown eyes, which correlate with higher neuromelanin in the brain, have faster reaction times and processing speed. Blue eyes are a mutation and confer certain disadvantages, such as higher rates of cancer. But they are pretty. And in this same study, it was found that according to the sample, blue eyes may correlate with higher levels of strategic thinking. People will cry foul, but it makes sense. Neuromelanin is postulated to help with transmission of signals in nerves. If someone is slower, they are forced to function- to behave slightly differently.

I've even read correlative data that supports redheads being "firey"... But I can't name it right now. Or I'm busy and don't feel like searching. It may have something to do with their sensitivity to pain, or what that somehow correlates with. Outward appearance is not just some fucking piece of worthless art. It may have a lot more meaning, or correlate with more than you understand.

 

[L2R]

I've already told you I don't accept this whole multicultural or racial parade that's happening in white countries. I'm not sure how much clearer I can be.

so you just don't like anyone you classify as "non-white"? simple as that?

And yea, I understand the emotions of my cat. We have very similar behaviors on many levels. There are subtle differences.

therefore the behavioural argument based on race is utterly false.

if the differences between you and your cat are subtle, the difference between you and a black man are non existent.

 

[What 23]

I continued to edit my post- to include possible hints as to correlative factors with appearance and behavior.

But, let's say I wish I knew my other racial 'brethren' a little better- I wish they had more presence here (Native Americans), but they were wiped out. And no, I just hate mass immigration and rapidly changing racial demographics that is occurring, coupled with low white birthrates.

Fuck. Leave it up to the "intelligent" white man to defeat itself.

 

[L2R]

horse shit.

the body and brain changes more to nurture (environment) than nature (genes). if a man thinks of sex a lot, he produces more hormones which result in greater facial hair growth. it's not the other way around.

you can't justify your prejudice as anything other than arbitrary. but whatever, rip whitey, whatever the hell you were

Appearance is not meaningless, either. You make such a claim. Prove it.

genius

 

[LosBlancos]

No one here arguing aganist you wants to "whitewash" anything. We are not in denial that violence does happen. Each case is unique and should be treated as such.

So completely abandon any compiling of statistics on the racial composition of violent offenders? The FBI compiles these numbers. We should just ignore race altogether. Take slavery for instance, we could say most the slaves were African and slavery was indeed a racist institution or we could just say every case of slavery is unique, take it on a case by case basis and maybe nearly all the slaves just happened to be black.

See how illogical it sounds? It sounds like pulling for strings when someone says to ignore the bigger picture, to ignore statistics and evidence, and look at things on a case by case basis. If medical researchers reasoning there would be no research studies, because even if the a huge number 1,000 people in the test group eating spoonfulls of sugar every day all developed diabetes we couldn't possibly draw any conclusions from that, it must be a coincidence, we'd need to look at all of them on a case-by-case basis. Cigarettes and lung cancer? We should probably look at smoker's on a case-by-case basis.

That starting point causes a disproportionately high degree of disenfranchisement felt in certain demographics more than others. That leads to a higher anti-social behaviour rate in those groups also. So, when one gets high and mighty about those groups being bad, one essentially exacerbates that sense of disenfranchisement which is a driving force of anti-social behaviour and crime.

This is a very poor excuse. "Feelings of disenfranchisement" are completely intangible, there would be no way to quantify this.

This theory is giving a significant power of thinking to hate groups. It's like saying the KKK and their rhetoric that black people are bad actually causes massive amounts of crime, because saying "x (insert race here) people are "bad" causes them to be "bad".

I frankly feel disenfranchised at times when I hear Al Sharpton or Louis Farrakhan speak about whites being "bad" but logically my sense of disenfranchisement will not be abated by shooting someone or robbing a convenience store but rather by getting an education and having a meaningful career. That's just me though.

 

[What 23]

horse shit.

the body and brain changes more to nurture (environment) than nature (genes). if a man thinks of sex a lot, he produces more hormones which result in greater facial hair growth. it's not the other way around.

you can't justify your prejudice as anything other than arbitrary. but whatever, rip whitey, whatever the hell you were



genius

Your viewpoint just seems so willingly blind and totally one-sided.

Sigh. People are confused.

 

[L2R]

So completely abandon any compiling of statistics on the racial composition of violent offenders? The FBI compiles these numbers. We should just ignore race altogether. Take slavery for instance, we could say most the slaves were African and slavery was indeed a racist institution or we could just say every case of slavery is unique, take it on a case by case basis and maybe nearly all the slaves just happened to be black.


See how illogical it sounds? It sounds like pulling for strings when someone says to ignore the bigger picture, to ignore statistics and evidence, and look at things on a case by case basis. If medical researchers reasoning there would be no research studies, because even if the a huge number 1,000 people in the test group eating spoonfulls of sugar every day all developed diabetes we couldn't possibly draw any conclusions from that, it must be a coincidence, we'd need to look at all of them on a case-by-case basis. Cigarettes and lung cancer? We should probably look at smoker's on a case-by-case basis.

Stopping at race and crime stats only serve prejudiced purposes and fails to account for the majority of the root causes of crime. Every case IS judged in courts on a case by case basis. It is the only way justice can be served.

Your smokers analogy makes no sense nor point in contrary to this.

This is a very poor excuse.

What am i excusing?

"Feelings of disenfranchisement" are completely intangible, there would be no way to quantify this.

Nonsense, because there is no need to quantify the degrees here. The endeavour towards full inclusion and support works towards a state of fulfilment ansd opportunity and away from disenfranchisement, and therefore lower crime.

This theory is giving a significant power of thinking to hate groups. It's like saying the KKK and their rhetoric that black people are bad actually causes massive amounts of crime, because saying "x (insert race here) people are "bad" causes them to be "bad".

I frankly feel disenfranchised at times when I hear Al Sharpton or Louis Farrakhan speak about whites being "bad" but logically my sense of disenfranchisement will not be abated by shooting someone or robbing a convenience store but rather by getting an education and having a meaningful career. That's just me though.

Luckily you were not raised feeling that way 24/7 by parents who felt it even more accutely and constantly over decades. The pain of being white does not come close to the pain of being non-white.

as noted to you explicitly over a dozen or so posts, affirmative action is not any kind of "reverse racism". It is there to counterbalance the overwhelming power against non-whites.

Your viewpoint just seems so willingly blind and totally one-sided.

Sigh. People are confused.

Oh my you poor thing. it must be tough to suffer as while only you and your sources of venomous racism are the exclusive holders of wisdom. where is your dedicated charity and national holiday?


edit:

Oh- are you a geneticist? "Races" have different frequencies of types genes. I dont know much about genes but this makes enouh sense.

you don't know how genes work, but this makes "enough sense". right... back to the lab, spin a monkey in a bloody centrifuge a bit harder next time.

 

[LosBlancos]

Stopping at race and crime stats only serve prejudiced purposes and fails to account for the majority of the root causes of crime. Every case IS judged in courts on a case by case basis. It is the only way justice can be served.

They should take crime and disenfranchisement stats instead, that would be useful.

What am i excusing?

Violent criminals by saying they have nefarious powers working within them that are beyond their control due to society "disenfranchisement" of their community.

as noted to you explicitly over a dozen or so posts, affirmative action is not any kind of "reverse racism". It is there to counterbalance the overwhelming power against non-whites.

There is an overwhelming power against non-white's? That's why in the sample set of around 300 million people in the United States that Asians have on average substantially higher income than the white populace? Interesting. If you don't want a focusing on race when it comes to crime then why focus on race when it comes to hiring? I'd rather focus on qualifications and experience when I'm hiring someone rather than the colour of their skin.

 

[What 23]

Thanks L2R for being my spell-checker.

You're brainwashed. Just like so many.

 

[L2R]

They should take crime and disenfranchisement stats instead, that would be useful.

That makes perfect sense and is an accurate representation of what I am saying.

And a pug should be the next president.

Violent criminals by saying they have nefarious powers working within them that are beyond their control due to society "disenfranchisement" of their community.

Hi there strawman number 2. To which specific criminals do you refer?

There is an overwhelming power against non-white's? That's why in the sample set of around 300 million people in the United States that Asians have on average substantially higher income than the white populace? Interesting. If you don't want a focusing on race when it comes to crime then why focus on race when it comes to hiring? I'd rather focus on qualifications and experience when I'm hiring someone rather than the colour of their skin.

The focus is on race whenever there is an unjust power imbalance which allows for prejudice to flourish.

Very predictable, lossy dude.

Thanks L2R for being my spell-checker.

You're brainwashed. Just like so many.

Bill orly called, wants his panties back, twisted, the way he likes.