The Ferguson thread / additional race discussion

[Corazon]

Fuck it must suck to be an American. To live in a state of fear and violence where people actually think it's normal that a person risk death just for objecting to the instructions of a police officer. Or to think that it's normal for the police to react to social disruptions with military-style weapons and tactics.

We are only human.

When you and everyone else has been programmed from birth to accept certain things, you are going to at the very least be more passive.

Then, all you need is an emotional "good vs. evil" division with two options.

You have to join and align with one of two emotional extremes. You are blinded to the systemic details.

Then, uncomfortable things can be blamed on the "evil" rather than the systemic cause.

 

[socko]

Fuck it must suck to be an American. To live in a state of fear and violence where people actually think it's normal that a person risk death just for objecting to the instructions of a police officer. Or to think that it's normal for the police to react to social disruptions with military-style weapons and tactics. What sort of a sad existence must you people live? I actually feel sorry for the apologists here. Laughingly they are the same numpties that think freedom = gun ownership. You will never know what it's like to live in REAL freedom - i.e. the freedom to go about your business without the fear of being murdered, either by your fellow civilian or a paramilitary "police" force that actually act like an occupying army. The one thing I get out of frequenting this forum is the sense that as fucked up as shit gets in my society, it's nothing on the dysfunction and horror that you flogs celebrate and think is reflective of the "best" or the "freest" country on earth. It just reminds me of how lucky I am to live in a country that is ACTUALLY free (at least in comparison). Ironically enough, it's the patriotism of the numpties that hold in such contempt actually increases my own sense of patriotism. Thank fuck I don't live the pathetic existence of the apologists. THANKS AMERICA! GOD BLESS! :D

It's only going to get worse.

 

[Corazon]

mandatory Police worn cams, and wide-angle "dash cams" ???
= "no wayyy , c'mon man! that's expensive..., we don't have the technology.... "




...




this shit --> ?

= "well... we need this stuff, to protect the store owners from looting ... you see..."

 

[legalizeall]

Fuck it must suck to be an American. To live in a state of fear and violence where people actually think it's normal that a person risk death just for objecting to the instructions of a police officer. Or to think that it's normal for the police to react to social disruptions with military-style weapons and tactics. What sort of a sad existence must you people live? I actually feel sorry for the apologists here. Laughingly they are the same numpties that think freedom = gun ownership. You will never know what it's like to live in REAL freedom - i.e. the freedom to go about your business without the fear of being murdered, either by your fellow civilian or a paramilitary "police" force that actually act like an occupying army. The one thing I get out of frequenting this forum is the sense that as fucked up as shit gets in my society, it's nothing on the dysfunction and horror that you flogs celebrate and think is reflective of the "best" or the "freest" country on earth. It just reminds me of how lucky I am to live in a country that is ACTUALLY free (at least in comparison). Ironically enough, it's the patriotism of the numpties that hold in such contempt actually increases my own sense of patriotism. Thank fuck I don't live the pathetic existence of the apologists. THANKS AMERICA! GOD BLESS! :D

Say you live in the "freest" country in the world, your not free from those heartless emotions and hate you live with everyday. Your bound by those and that is the irony. Devoting countless hours to belittling other people and developing racial views and spreading those tenions and hate throughout. It must suck to be you.

A bit nit picky, but on several established indexes, Australia does have a higher standard of freedom than the US. Certainly in terms of press freedom, economic freedom, and democratic participation.

And everything bit pattern said isnt out of line at all? Right. And im being a bit nit picky?

 

[Bardeaux]

Your country is by no means more free then America.

A bit nit picky, but on several established indexes, Australia does have a higher standard of freedom than the US. Certainly in terms of press freedom, economic freedom, and democratic participation.

 

[phenethylo J]

This is because it's not part of the equation. The officer had no idea Brown had stolen cigars. The assault, if true, sure I can understand a weapon being drawn. It doesn't however, justify shooting a suspect six times at long distance with his hands in the air.

The fact that Brown had just robbed the store most likely made him jump to the conclusion that was why the cop was stopping him which was probably why he acted to aggressively causing the police officer to fear for his life enough to shoot Brown. I still don't think that it was something he deserved to die for and agree it is wrong that here in America they teach cops to shoot to kill rather than shoot to disarm/disable. I'm just pointing it out that sometimes in these situations people flip it around into something it isn't. Although I wasn't there and don't know exactly what happened, I'm just going by the media's summarization of wittiness accounts which of coarse isn't always accurate.

 

[alasdairm]

i know that, if i was a police officer and i pointed a gun at somebody and they put their hands in the air, i would fear for my life enough to shoot him five or six times.

alasdair

 

[Shrooms00087]

mandatory Police worn cams, and wide-angle "dash cams" ???
this shit
"well... we need this stuff, to protect the store owners from looting ... you see..."

Good I've been wanting them to be wearing the exact same amount of intelligence gathering tools they use on the citizens, to as well be used on cops. Fairness. That or get rid of it all, and say fuck it...I'm going to wait for a verdict and start a social gathering to figure out how to make cops more accountable.....

 

[What 23]

The officer had no idea Brown had stolen cigars.

He didn't know when he first tried to approach Brown, but then when he saw the cigars he did had an idea, according to what's been reported now. A lot can be confused when reporting. Whether this is a fabrication or not I don't know, but being in the area he may have heard it over his scanner or something.

Always go with the least biased testimony.

It is really hard to know for sure that the interview you posted isn't biased. St. Louis is a very racist town, and it goes both directions. Cops have a history of being aggressive there. There is animosity among people there, against police. The witness might have seen the a slanted image- they may have shown bias. I really don't know.

The video I posted with the voices in the background, considering they didn't know they were being recorded quite, might be less biased. In it the guy says Brown kept approaching Wilson, even as he was being shot at. That the cop was missing at first. Now... Think: Does this sound like Brown had his hands up here? And to me it says the cop may have been either panicked/shakey after possibly being assaulted, or maybe even firing warning shots to try to deter Brown's approach.

i know that, if i was a police officer and i pointed a gun at somebody and they put their hands in the air, i would fear for my life enough to shoot him five or six times.

alasdair

Some have said this. But there is some possible support for the officer's account as well in the form of a video where in the background you can hear two men talking about what happened. They mention that Brown kept approaching Wilson even as he was being shot at. This doesn't sound like a surrendering person to me.

People don't want to take the robbery/assault video into account, but it only happened 10 minutes prior. It shows him being confrontational. It is at least a possibility that this is what happened also with the cop.

As said, cops need cameras. This is too much responsibility to put on one person. And so much of this would be avoided. If the cop acted out of line he'd have the book thrown at him. I won't have an issue if he did. But right now everyone has chosen the side of the anti-authority, and they chant it like it's the truth. Also, if he did act out of line, maybe knowing he was being watched/recorded would have prevented this.

 

[legalizeall]

If you think its going to get worse, could you relate how much has been taken from you already? What cant you do now that you used to be able to do or what freedoms dont you have now that you used to?

 

[Bardeaux]

He didn't know when he first tried to approach Brown, but then when he saw the cigars he did had an idea, according to what's been reported now. A lot can be confused when reporting. Whether this is a fabrication or not I don't know, but being in the area he may have heard it over his scanner or something.

How are the cigars even relevant to the shooting? Even if the officer was apprehending him solely for the purpose of investigating the robbery, it still doesn't justify what then occurred.

The witnessed might have seen the a slanted image- they may have shown bias. I really don't know.

Sure. But the cop himself, or friends of the officer are much more likely to let their personal connection to the officer alter their account of the story than a random black woman on the street.

The video I posted with the voices in the background, considering they didn't know they were being recorded quite, might be less biased. In it the guy says Brown kept approaching Wilson, even as he was being shot at. That the cop was missing at first. Now... Think: Does this sound like Brown had his hands up here? And to me it says the cop may have been either panicked/shakey after possibly being assaulted, or maybe even firing warning shots to try to deter Brown's approach.

No, he didn't. He used pronouns. "He kept coming towards him". This is congruent with the other witness accounts that the officer was approaching Brown as he continued shooting.

They mention that Brown kept approaching Wilson even as he was being shot at. This doesn't sound like a surrendering person to me.

Eyewitness:' The police kept dumpin on him, and I’m thinking the police kept missing – he like – be like – but he kept coming toward him(crosstalk)'

Where does he say Brown kept approaching the officer?

 

[What 23]

"Then the next thing I know he doubled back toward him cus - the police had his gun drawn already on him –"

Above was prior to

"The police kept dumpin on him, and I’m thinking the police kept missing – he like – be like – but he kept coming toward him(crosstalk)"

This was after the witness said Brown was in the truck and then ran. Who would "double back", and then keep coming? I don't think the cop ran away...

 

[Bardeaux]

"Then the next thing I know he doubled back toward him cus - the police had his gun drawn already on him –"

IE- Turned to face the officer.

"The police kept dumpin on him, and I’m thinking the police kept missing – he like – be like – but he kept coming toward him(crosstalk)"

IE- the officer kept walking toward brown (the officer was pursuing brown, remember?) while firing. This matches other eyewitness testimony. Who runs towards
a wall of gunfire?

Fwiw, I don't think the cop is a cold blooded murderer. I think he was in a scary situation and lost his head. Still, three shots to the face is excessive no matter what the circumstances might be.

 

[Droppersneck]

From the video of the robbery Brown appears to be a crazed blood thirsty animal imho. I do not care what color he was I am only wondering now what set the crazed individual off. Pcp has been known to be laced in the brick weed blunts are rolled with. Though I still feel bad for his parents and dislike the polices over reaction to most things I dislike the profiting all the race baiters are making off this story even more.

 

[What 23]

IE- Turned to face the officer.

Unless the man didn't know what doubling back means, it usually means retracing steps/going back the direction from which one came.

From the video of the robbery Brown appears to be a crazed blood thirsty animal imho. I do not care what color he was I am only wondering now what set the crazed individual off. Pcp has been known to be laced in the brick weed blunts are rolled with. Though I still feel bad for his parents and dislike the polices over reaction to most things I dislike the profiting all the race baiters are making off this story even more.

I agree on the race baiting. I don't know about PCP. I was under the impression its a rarity anymore. I see an 18 year old with an ego, trying to be hard around his 22 year old older friend. At least that seems to (maybe) be part of it.

 

[bit_pattern]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-time-as-national-guard-deployed-9675149.html

Amnesty International sends team within US for first time as National Guard deployed

As anger erupted again on the streets of Ferguson, Missouri, a human rights team from Amnesty International worked on the ground in the US for the first time ever.

Confrontation flared up after an autopsy found that Michael Brown, an unarmed teenager who was fatally shot by an officer on 9 August, had suffered at six bullet wounds including one in the top of his head.

Eye-witnesses report seeing police, with no visible ID badges, hurling tear gas and rubber bullets at protesters and threatening members of the press in another night of demonstrations.

Amnesty International, said it would be observing police and protester activity and gathering testimonies as well as training local activists “on methods of non-violent protest” in an “unprecedented” move by the campaigners.

Amnesty International USA's Executive Director, Steven W Hawkins said that the “people of Ferguson have the right to protest peacefully the lack of accountability for Michael Brown’s shooting”.

Jasmine Heiss, one of the 13-strong team sent by Amnesty, told Buzzfeed that the limits placed on the organisation’s access to post-curfew areas was indicative of “the overall lack of transparency in this investigation”.

“Law enforcement, from the FBI to state and local police, are obligated to respect and uphold the human rights of our communities,” Mr Hawkins said in a statement on 14 August.

“The US cannot continue to allow those obligated and duty-bound to protect to become those who their community fears most," said Amnesty International USA's executive director, Steven W. Hawkins.”

The fresh dissidence has led to Jay Nixon, the Governor of the state of Missouri, ordering the deployment of National Guard troops to “protect life and property”, he said in a statement this morning.

The military will, he says, will “maintain peace and order” by closing streets and thoroughfares, if it must, after the events that have unfolded have “continued to create conditions of distress and hazard to the safety, welfare and property of the citizens of the community beyond the capacities of local jurisdiction”.

Relations between protesters and police quickly deteriorated yesterday as a second night under curfew began, following the State of Emergency that was declared on Saturday.

Officers say they were responding to gunfire, looting, vandalism and the hurling of Molotov cocktails at them, with at least two people wounded.

"Based on the conditions, I had no alternative but to elevate the level of response," said Captain Ron Johnson, from the Missouri Highway Patrol.

A number of journalists present at the clash in the early hours of this morning reported being threatened with tear gas if they didn’t move, as they were shepherded away from the media enclosure.

 

[spacejunk]

"Race baiting"?
What the fuck is that?
There are some creepy, soulless individuals speaking up on this issue.
Utterly sickening - if I didnt know better I'd think you were cops or nazis.
Actually, I wouldn't rule either of those things out.

 

[legalizeall]

This is just the latest story in the tragedies the media brings us. In a few days, a week at the most, their will be another one and this story will get buried with all the other unresolved news blips they show us. Names and places will be forgotten. People get worked up over it but does anybody ever really do anything about it or make an effort to make change cause of it? No, when its gone, so are the emotions. Those emotions just go onto the next story the media chooses to show us through their filter. Ask people in 2 months what this kids name was and they wont be able to tell you. People act like they know whats going on in the world but your just informed on certain types of filters the media chooses to show you. Your not really there and dont really know. But keep telling yourself that if it makes yourself and ego feel good

 

[What 23]

I don't think your assessment that this will blow over is accurate.

 

[Bardeaux]

Unless the man didn't know what doubling back means, it usually means retracing steps/going back the direction from which one came.

Right. Not Charging fiercely in an aggressive manner.