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The Ferguson thread / additional race discussion

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folley said:
Is this a fucking joke? "Police state"? There was just a picture of people carrying high powered assault rifles through WalMart. Not like that ever actually fucking happens around here, there's probably 100 total people who are bold and idiotic enough to walk around with a fully loaded assault rifle in a peaceful city.
the pictures of the "gun exhibitionists" was after my comment about the police state thing.

As for the paramilitary troops (sorry - you call them "police" still, don't you?) being present when people protest police shooting dead an unarmed man in the street - yes, absolutely - a fucking joke.

You list some other places where state crowd control methods are dubious; but seriously, the United States is no beacon of democracy and justice.
Don't believe all that bullshit they tell you on TV. It's all smiles and god bless America until the CS gas and rubber bullets come out.

I personally believe that people welcome these situations that warrant ignorance fueled chaos it means free stuff at the end of the day

Like IS, in Iraq, yeah?
How fucking ironic.
 
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the source I have for this is American Renaissance, which is often considered a white supremacist publication.

Say no more 8)

As for the civil rights comparisons, just to bring this up again, MULTIPLE stores were looted and burnt down/attempted to be burnt down.

Clearly your historical comprehension of what actually went down during the CR era is right up there with your comprehension of, well, pretty much everything else you prattle on about.
 
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I personally believe that people welcome these situations that warrant ignorance fueled chaos it means free stuff at the end of the day

Oh. Classic. The resident libertarian, anti-government, gun-nut blithely dismisses exactly the sort of situation he thinks his guns are going to protect him from because it's happening to blacks. You'd be going to full defcon derp if this was happening in a white neighbourhood. Libertarianism: it literally only goes skin deep.
 
Is this a fucking joke? "Police state"?

No. It's deadly serious.

There was just a picture of people carrying high powered assault rifles through WalMart.

Yes. White people. Meanwhile black people live under a state of perpetual occupation with a fatality rate that is up there with Gaza on a good day. But, hey, your white so, like, give a shit. So long as they're not taking away your self-indulgent right to do drugs - it's like it's not happening

How is this different from Athens, London or the entirety of the Ukraine right now?

Well, it's *very* different to London or Athens but I find it interesting that the home of the free has been reduced to comparing itself with an *actual* warzone.
 
Interesting you make absolutely no mention of this, or the rioting, or stores looted, and burnt down in the following days. Yea... A kid dies so it gives you the go ahead to loot and commit arson. Black Panthers are calling for violence. The cops have a right.

"A riot is the language of the unheard"

Guess who said it.

People are demanding the cops name be released (who is either in the hospital or was sent to the hospital himself with wounds). How is this positive? How is this acceptable? He would himself probably get murdered.

He's a public officer.

The cop may have acted rashly, even if he was assaulted, as is the story. He probably shouldn't have shot someone if they were running, but the story is that he was just assaulted, and had a fight over his weapon. A shot went off. There was heat.

Not A shot, the police haven't released exactly how many times the kid was shot, but they have said it was multiple times. While his hands were in the air.

Witnesses have apparently dismissed the struggle for the weapon, and are saying he was shot at long distance. Whether or not the cop was assaulted bears little relevance in shooting an unarmed citizen with his hand in the air several times. This is murder. Had this happened in Afghanistan, the officer would (ideally) be court marshaled.
 
I haven't touched doritos in about 10 years at the very least.

I ate hemp seeds almost exclusively for about 2 years. I ate nothing but avocados and strawberries for a few months.

I haven't lived at home (at parents... I guess its still "home") in about 8 years.

Whites are still murdered by blacks at a much higher rate than blacks are by whites. White women are raped by black men at a much higher rate by black men than black women are by white men. Lynchings were about 4,000 in 70 or so years. Black Africans killed white settlers, about 75,000 of them, in 14. I'm outraged.
Small Buzz 23: How is that hemp seed diet working for you? You quote stats like that and act like you're the only person who has ever seen them. Then you take the most shallow interpretation of those stats and use them to justify your own racist beliefs. Others have already told you this. Have you ever wondered what could be the root cause for those stats other than falling back on discredited pseudoscience or other racist explanations?
 
It is not a racial thing bit pattern but lets face it all parties involved are benefiting from the event minus the dead kid and family. Before you all get super heated/emotional over this case let the facts come out first. I hate cops as much as anyone and their abuses of power are not solely against minorities IME. Who gives a shit if the kid was 18 if he was doing something he shouldnt of then cops will react the way they always do with too much force. I just hate how all the whiny libs are trying to compare this to the 60s when it isnt even close.

<The only news I have even heard of this was on NPR> I do not watch TV and have not read the articles.
 
lets face it all parties involved are benefiting from the event minus the dead kid and family.

Who is benefiting from this, exactly? I don't own a TV either, so couldn't tell you how Sean Hannity or Rachel Maddow are trying to spin this, but I can't really imagine a scenario where this is of benefit to anyone. Not the police, not the community, not the politicians.
 
Who is benefiting from this, exactly? I don't own a TV either, so couldn't tell you how Sean Hannity or Rachel Maddow are trying to spin this, but I can't really imagine a scenario where this is of benefit to anyone. Not the police, not the community, not the politicians.
The weapons makers who exploit the fear of race riots to sell military-grade weapons and other hardware to local police forces across the country. That goes for selling guns to civilians for the same reason.
 
^This has been going on for decades, though.

Every moderately sized city I've lived in already has a paramilitary force, complete with armored vehicles and infantry divisions.

Edit - Apparently Anonymous has identified the police officer as Bryan Willman, and have released his phone number, current address and email addresses. No solid verification though. It turns out normal citizens also have access to computers and information networks.....
 
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If the guy fought a cop, I can see how this might have happened. The cop may have been in the wrong, but when you get attacked sometimes you lose your cool. If there actually was a struggle for the cops weapon, and a shot going off, this is even more understandable.

The main reason we live in a country that jails as many as we do is our drug war, which I agree should end.

Releasing the cops name right now, wouldnt be appropriate. Public officer or not. He would likely get murdered. People on this forum would say it was deserved. It may even escalate the situation.

Socko- what is a "big" interpretation of those stats? I included that socioeconomic factors had probably something to do with them. At this level of inquiry, what more do you want? The fact still remains that they are disproportionate... Even if Blacks are arrested more out of racism.
 
If the guy fought a cop, I can see how this might have happened. The cop may have been in the wrong, but when you get attacked sometimes you lose your cool. If there actually was a struggle for the cops weapon, and a shot going off, this is even more understandable.

That would be understandable. Shooting him several more times, several feet away while his hands are in the air is not. This is called an execution.
 
The shot going off I keep referring to is when allegedly the kid had forced the guy back into his cruiser.

I do admit what happened after may have been wrong, but people here seem to be on some agenda to demonize.

If a person attacked me, hit me, and tried to go for my weapon, a shot going off as it allegedly did here, I would probably shoot them. I might fire multiple rounds.
 
Well, as it is there seems to be conflicting stories. I will say I find it difficult to believe that the kid just decided to risk his life suddenly. I have gotten out of charges because a cop made things up. I can see how this may have been a case of harassment, by a hot-headed cop, that got out of hand, sadly, for Brown.

But... As far as the reaction of the police afterward, to the protests, and the looting, vandalism, and arson that followed them, I can understand.
 
The assault, the struggling for the weapon, the shot from the cruiser, etc are the details that are still blurry. If they turn out to be true, then sure, I would expect a cop to shoot me for trying to take his gun. Common sense.

However, what seems to be more unified is the testimony that the guy surrendered after being shot the first time. I haven't seen anything to contradict this. At this point, the officer should have done his job, arrested and charged him with assault. If it turns out that he shot a wounded, unarmed man multiple times from several feet away who is holding his hands up, the officer needs to be facing murder charges.

And if this is the case and he walks, I would expect a 1992 style blowback.
 
Even by Johnsons account they disobeyed an authority telling them to get off the street. It would seem there was some amount of defiance going on from the start.

If, according to the account, he was shot once before being gunned to death, and that he did nothing, such as resisting the officer, or fighting him (the guy did have injuries/an injury... Self inflicted?)... Even if he did and was shot, and surrendering, I agree it seems the officer should have exercised restraint at that point.

But the detail about them telling the officer "we're almost home", when he told them to get off the street, showed defiance. Maybe Brown was trying to act big in front of his friend? Or they were, together? That's not smart. It's simple enough. When a cop asks you to get out of the road, even if he is a douche about it, you do it... Unless you want trouble.
 
^Even if all of this is true, it doesn't warrant a public execution on the street. Showing defiance isn't punishable by death and the police officer isn't a judge or jury. Granted, the first shot could feasibly have been warranted. The next several shots should really result in murder charges against the officer.

I agree it seems the officer should have exercised restraint at that point.

I would say so 8(

It was just a few weeks ago when the NYPD was caught on film choking a man to death. It's not unreasonable to suspect that the officer in this scenario could have unjustly used deadly force.
 
This is America :|

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Ferguson protests lay bare the militarisation of US police

August 15, 2014 - 11:45AM

Jamelle Bouie

Washington: The most striking photographs from Ferguson, Missouri, aren't of Saturday's demonstrations or Sunday night's riots; they're of the police. Image after image shows officers clad in Kevlar vests, helmets, and camouflage, armed with pistols, shotguns, automatic rifles, and tear gas. In one photo, protesters stand toe-to-toe with baton-wielding riot police, in another, an unarmed man faces several cops, each with rifles at the ready.

What's more, Ferguson police have used armoured vehicles to show force and control crowds. In one photo, riot gear-clad officers are standing in front of a mine-resistant ambush protected vehicle, barking commands and launching tear gas into groups of demonstrators and journalists.

This would be one thing if Ferguson were in a war zone, or if protesters were violent – although, it's hard to imagine a situation in which American police would need a mine-resistant vehicle. But an episode of looting aside, Ferguson police aren't dealing with any particular danger. Nonetheless, they're treating demonstrators – and Ferguson residents writ large – as a population to occupy, not citizens to protect.
Police force protesters from the business district in Ferguson.

This is part of a broader problem.

In his book The Rise of the Warrior Cop, journalist Radley Balko notes that since the 1960s, "law-enforcement agencies across the US, at every level of government, have been blurring the line between police officer and soldier. Driven by martial rhetoric and the availability of military-style equipment – from bayonets and M-16 rifles to armoured personnel carriers – American police forces have often adopted a mind-set previously reserved for the battlefield."

This process ramped up with the "war on drugs" in the 1980s and 1990s, as the federal government supplied local and state police forces with military-grade weaponry to clamp down on drug trafficking and other crime. And it accelerated again after the September 11 attacks and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, when the federal government had – and sent – billions in surplus military equipment to state and local governments.

Since 2006, according to an analysis by The New York Times, police departments have acquired 435 armoured vehicles, 533 planes, 93,763 machine guns and 432 mine-resistant armoured trucks.

Overall, since Congress established its program to transfer military hardware, local and state police departments have received $US4.3 billion worth of equipment. Accordingly, the value of military equipment used by these police agencies has increased from $US1 million in 1990 to $US324 million in 1995 (shortly after the program was established), to nearly $US450 million in 2013.

At the same time as crime has fallen to its lowest levels in decades, police departments are acquiring more hardware and finding more reasons to use SWAT teams and other heavy-handed tactics, regardless of the situation.

According to an American Civil Liberties Union report released this summer, 79 per cent of SWAT deployments from 2011 to 2012 were for search warrants, a massive overreaction that can have disastrous consequences, including injury and death.

That was the case for Aiyana Stanley-Jones, who was killed during a SWAT raid by the Detroit police department. Serving a search warrant for an occupant of the house, Detroit police rushed in with flash bangs and ballistic shields. When one resident tried to grab an officer's gun, it fired, striking Aiyana. She was seven.

If you know anything about the racial disparities in the US criminal justice system, then it also shouldn't shock you to learn that SWAT deployments are used disproportionately in black and Latino neighbourhoods. The ACLU found that 50 per cent of those affected by SWAT deployments were black and Latino. Of these deployments, 68 per cent were for drug searches.

That police are eager to use their new weapons and vehicles isn't a surprise. As The New York Times notes, "The ubiquity of SWAT teams has changed not only the way officers look, but also the way departments view themselves. Recruiting videos feature clips of officers storming into homes with smoke grenades and firing automatic weapons."

That is how we get images like the ones in Ferguson, where police officers brandish heavy weapons and act as an occupying force. We should expect as much when we give police departments military weapons. Already – when it comes to predominantly black and brown communities – there's a long-standing culture of aggressive, punitive policing. Add assault weapons and armoured vehicles, and you have a recipe for the repressive, violent reactions that we see in Ferguson, and that are likely inevitable in countless other poor American neighbourhoods.

Slate

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/ferguso...-us-police-20140815-104das.html#ixzz3AQZE3Vii
 
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