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The Ferguson thread / additional race discussion

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No i had a argument. I just felt like attacking your source too

Rather funny that you say they are scapegoating immigrants when your constantly scapegoat the wealthy.

Also interesting that my source is the most read online news source in the world, and I don't believe it has a much higher rate of inaccurate reporting than any other top news source. Not sure what your basis for questioning the validity of the Daily Mail is.

I digress, your assertion that far-right movement is racist is wrong. Anti-immigration isn't exclusive to any race. At the recent Germany anti-Salafist march which the liberal media tried to say was racist and full of football fooligans there were Sihks and Indians marching alongside the Native Germans.

Scapegoating is especially funny when it seems police officers and the "white power structure" have been scapegoats as you see earlier in this thread.
 
I don't care if you disagree and since when did i say only white people can be anti-immigrant? There are plenty of non white countries that treat immigrants like shit too. Maybe your like 15 and don't remember any other "terrorists" besides Muslim ones but i can. It's just history repeating itself and these Fascists are riding on the tide of a reactionary public.
 
I don't care if you disagree and since when did i say only white people can be anti-immigrant? There are plenty of non white countries that treat immigrants like shit too. Maybe your like 15 and don't remember any other "terrorists" besides Muslim ones but i can. It's just history repeating itself and these Fascists are riding on the tide of a reactionary public.

the vast majority of terrorism in recent times has come from radical Islam.
 
the vast majority of terrorism in recent times has come from radical Islam.

In this century yes. Up well into the 80's there where lot's of white terrorists and the 70's where the heyday of international "terrorism". You had the PIRA, ETA, Red Army Faction, African National Congress, the PLO and a few others that i am forgetting. All these groups worked with each other as they believed in National Liberation and where Socialists. And before you say that the PLO where Muslim Socialism and National Liberation where their driving force and they had many Christians in their ranks as well as having groups like the RAF helping them.
 
re: islamic terrorism, stop creating islamic terrorists.

The US and other western countries are almost directly involved with every major islamic terror organization currently wreaking havoc.


Stop blowing up entire villages. Stop massacring wedding parties. This is the most fundamental way to fight terrorism, drain their support. Stop giving them a calling to war.
 
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In this century yes. Up well into the 80's there where lot's of white terrorists and the 70's where the heyday of international "terrorism". You had the PIRA, ETA, Red Army Faction, African National Congress, the PLO and a few others that i am forgetting. All these groups worked with each other as they believed in National Liberation and where Socialists. And before you say that the PLO where Muslim Socialism and National Liberation where their driving force and they had many Christians in their ranks as well as having groups like the RAF helping them.

The IRA killed as many people in there history as Jihadists kill in a week. We are in 2014 mentioning white terror groups of the 70s that are no longer active has little to do with the issue of present day immigration.
 
The IRA killed as many people in there history as Jihadists kill in a week. We are in 2014 mentioning white terror groups of the 70s that are no longer active has little to do with the issue of present day immigration.

Well see that's because despite what some say the Provisional IRA didn't have anything against the Ulster Scots or British people. They didn't target civilians (except on a few occasions) and instead attacked the Police forces like the Royal Ulster Constabulary as well as the British army. Yes civilians got killed in collateral damage but they where not the targets and the PIRA learned quick that attacking civilians turned people off right quick or coming off as sectarian by only seeming to fight the Loyalist death squads was not a good way to get people sympathetic to their cause. Also the PLO are still around as not all of their groups specifically the PFLP have given up the struggle. Granted they haven't the weapons to take on Israel these days. They are a famous example of a Marxist-Leninist group who where predominately Arab though not all of them where as they where not nationalists or sectarian.

My point was that the likes of your crowd associate the far right (this includes Islamic militants as well) with violence and think the far left (and by this i mean Marxists or Anarchists) hate guns. The Red Army Faction had a picture of a MP5 on their flag ffs lol. You can't seem to grasp any history before 9/11 but then again public schools are shit.

As for immigration there is no argument. Comparing the peaceful integration of today's cultures to Colonialism is fucking retarded in my opinion. But then again you reactionaries need someone worse off then you to blame as it's much easier too pick on poor immigrants then to actually acknowledge that the real problem is caused by people with much more power then you.
 
Comparing the peaceful integration of today's cultures to Colonialism is fucking retarded in my opinion.

I was puzzling over a good way to put this, but you captured the essence of the point better than my writing could have. When people migrate with weapons in tote, attempting to set up their own polity on arrival and imposing this polity on the preexisting residents* (ie, under conditions of explicit colonialism), you have a situation wholly different from the migration characteristic of contemporary immigrants to the West.

*no, Muslim immigrants are not actually trying to impose their interpretation of Sharia onto their host countries' native residents (at least in any significant number). Hell, a number of interpretations of Islam don't conceive of Sharia precepts as appropriate for administration by a nation-state. The written documentation of Islamic clerical interpretation is quite rich and diverse.

ebola
 
The IRA killed as many people in there history as Jihadists kill in a week. We are in 2014 mentioning white terror groups of the 70s that are no longer active has little to do with the issue of present day immigration.

Well, we all know that the Irish are poverty-stricken drunken papist scum that breed like rabbits, who will always choose to follow the Pope over the American president. Their beliefs are incompatible with democracy. Damned if I know why they were let into this country. Cromwell had the right idea about how to treat them.

(This is what the Nativist movement believed 100 years ago. See any similarities to your beliefs regarding immigrants?)
 
Ebola, I know I'm a bit late to reply to your response to my idea about ethnicity, but I just wanted to clarify my definition: An ethnicity forms when a group of people see each other as having a shared, salient experience of a particular historical event, or series of events. If your ancestors weren't there when X event went down, and weren't affected by it in Y way, then don't call yourself one of us.

Notice that genes don't enter into it at all at first. Simply historical experience. Genes only enter into the equation over successive generations, when the people who find solidarity in a common (real, imagined, or progressively a mixture of both) historical experience, tend to huddle together socially and therefore marry endogamously. The more endogamous and socially insular the group is (by their own choice and/or by ghettoization from without), the more well-defined the borders of the ethnic group becomes.

Eventually they reach a point where membership is determinable with reasonable accuracy with one quick look, and someone not an accepted member of the ethnic group, even if they were fortunate enough to have a phenotype common among that group, couldn't possibly fake the rich, subtle, and unique set of mannerisms of someone well socialized in that ethnic milieu. My facial features are decidedly northern European, but when I took a train across Russia, and then into northern China where Russians are the most common people with my phenotype are Russian, I was seldom mistaken for a Russian local, even when I kept my mouth shut and wore clothes that were locally bought. It had to do with how I sat, how I walked and carried myself, what expressions I wore on my face, and so on.

Ethnic identities are dynamic, though, and can dissolve away as easily as they form. When exogamy and friendship with out-group members becomes common, and/or successive generations stop caring about (or even frankly forget) being descended from people who lived through historical event(s) X, chances are they'll redefine themselves as something else, and disperse among other formed and vibrant ethnic identities.

Again, MDAO's lava lamp theory of ethnicity. %)
 
Escher said:
Damned if I know why

Sounds a bit like you've joined the "Know Nothings". ;)

MDAO said:
Notice that genes don't enter into it at all at first. Simply historical experience. Genes only enter into the equation over successive generations, when the people who find solidarity in a common (real, imagined, or progressively a mixture of both) historical experience, tend to huddle together socially and therefore marry endogamously. The more endogamous and socially insular the group is (by their own choice and/or by ghettoization from without), the more well-defined the borders of the ethnic group becomes.

This is a good point, though I think it's an important caveat that genes never really enter the picture in any thorough-going way (except that family lineages might prove important in some contexts). If you have endogamy spanning tens of thousands of years (actually pretty rare for any given ethnicity), you get minor points of genetic distinction, like change in melanin production and facial structure...or concentration of a few specific genetic disorders (as with Ashkenazi Jews).
...
I think that the key word in your description is "solidarity". That is, group formation has to take place in relation to other projects of identity formation, in particular in relation to other ascribed identities.

Eventually they reach a point where membership is determinable with reasonable accuracy with one quick look, and someone not an accepted member of the ethnic group, even if they were fortunate enough to have a phenotype common among that group, couldn't possibly fake the rich, subtle, and unique set of mannerisms of someone well socialized in that ethnic milieu.

We're actually pretty bad at identifying ethnicity from facial looks alone, at least according to a few studies that I've seen. Eg, most East Asians who purport to be able to readily discriminate Japanese from Korean from Han Chinese are pretty unreliable, having built an impression of competence out of confirmation bias.

I was seldom mistaken for a Russian local, even when I kept my mouth shut and wore clothes that were locally bought. It had to do with how I sat, how I walked and carried myself, what expressions I wore on my face, and so on.

Alternately, when I was teaching in Korea, my Vietnamese coworker (who doesn't look especially Korean except in terms of skin tone (ie, pale for a Southeast Asian)) was very commonly mistaken for a Korean. Hell, my boss even imposed higher expectations of confirmation to Korean mannerisms on him than she did on me.

Ethnic identities are dynamic, though, and can dissolve away as easily as they form. When exogamy and friendship with out-group members becomes common, and/or successive generations stop caring about (or even frankly forget) being descended from people who lived through historical event(s) X, chances are they'll redefine themselves as something else, and disperse among other formed and vibrant ethnic identities.

Another good point that's rather easy to forget.
...
One thing I'm wondering about is what specific conditions lead to ethnic formation rather than other processes of group-formation. Eg, why is it that the divide between the nobility and commoners in feudal Western Europe never took on an ethnic dimension? These groups were highly ascriptive, and certainly involved a rich set of status-performances, accompanying artifacts, role-specialization, and endogamy. Was it just a matter of time, in that these social structures failed to persist long enough for ethnic formation? Was it that these status-groups were too closely tied to economic class (relatedly, should we call Indian castes "ethnic")? Was it that these groups were not tied to wider patterns of human migration? Or did it matter that the two groups weren't distinct in physical features (I don't consider the latter likely...for example, most Ashkenazi Jews can pass as non-Jewish white in the vast majority of social settings)?

ebola
 
Well see that's because despite what some say the Provisional IRA didn't have anything against the Ulster Scots or British people. They didn't target civilians (except on a few occasions) and instead attacked the Police forces like the Royal Ulster Constabulary as well as the British army.

So why are you comparing them to Islamic terrorists? They kill indiscriminately and that distinguishes them from these other groups. In just this past week 150 kids slaughtered at a school.
 
I'm actually pretty good at distinguishing Korean from Chinese, in my limited experience. In line with what MDAO and ebola are talking about. And without ever meeting someone from there, years ago I knew a guy was from Syria, and he became excited/happy that I got it right, because so many thought he was other things.

But I did really miss a Bangladeshi... Saying he was Arab mainly based on his name.
 
the original "hostages" were voluntary and were treated well. they were often married with someone in the host country and take root there. the migration between states with these "hostages" were as a guarantee than neither side would attack the other. thereby making such relations are strong stabilizing force, preventative of hostility.

wiki said:
The English word "hostage" derives from French ostage, modern otage, from Late Latin obsidaticum (Medieval Latin ostaticum, ostagium), the state of being an obses (plural obsides), "hostage", from Latin obsideō ("I haunt / frequent / blockade / besiege"), but an etymological connection was later supposed with Latin hostis ("stranger," later "enemy"). This long history of political and military use indicates that political authorities or generals would legally agree to hand over one or usually several hostages in the custody of the other side, as guarantee of good faith in the observance of obligations. These obligations would be in the form of signing of a peace treaty, in the hands of the victor, or even exchange hostages as mutual assurance in cases such as an armistice. Major powers, such as Ancient Rome[1] and the British who had colonial vassals, would especially receive many such political hostages, often offspring of the elite, even princes or princesses who were generally treated according to their rank and put to a subtle long-term use where they would be given an elitist education or possibly even a religious conversion. This would eventually influence them culturally and open the way for an amicable political line if they ascended to power after release.
 
So you're sayin we should all breed, huh?

For equality.

Yee-haw.

And the Muslim man can take any wife he chooses. But a Christian or Atheist man will run into issues when he finds an Islamic woman, as this is harem.

There is just one issue.
 
So you're sayin we should all breed, huh?

For equality.

Yee-haw.

And the Muslim man can take any wife he chooses. But a Christian or Atheist man will run into issues when he finds an Islamic woman, as this is harem.

There is just one issue.

some will find love elsewhere (as in my marriage), others will not. that "issue" is not an issue.


but my actual point is the sky is not falling. you, your people and your culture are not under any threat.
 
I actually have a crush on my sister's korean-european mixed friend. She was a neighbor for my time growing up. We used to sled down their hill. My sister is about 6 years older than me, so as a child that was a distance aways.

I've been thinking about her lately because I've gotten back onto Facebook and I have seen her picture come up as a friend suggestion, and I remember seeing her for some other reason, maybe my sister's most recent baby shower, a few years back.

The other day, she added me, right after I posted a video of a peacock spider trying to get a mate, and I enjoyed the coincidence/synchroncity. I wonder.

Anyways, I'm just saying it is not as if I am not attracted or that I'm closed, or condemn. Searching for the words. I consider this girl beautiful, and I could never reject her. Not speaking romantically as that has to work naturally, but as a person, as a friend... I've known her most of my life. She matters.

As for the Islam example, I dont find it acceptable. There are a lot of Muslim females that I've found attractive. I guess I could fake being Muslim, but I'd rather not.

Even if I 'mix', I hope that some- enough don't. And I'm still not sure how some peoples will benefit, how the population will be... In white countries that are becoming less and less 'white'.

And I also think some cultures and maybe peoples might be better with some than others. Might be more stable. And work better. But, I'm not sure.

Its complicated.
 
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