The Fall of Christianity

[Maya]

For years I have been pondering about how my beliefs have changed. As I grow up, I have been exposed to a variety of information regarding Religions and life in general.

As I have mentioned in my earlier post which pertains to my religious belief, I have noticed the difference of how many people were still going to church when I was younger. When I was in high school, we used to have "Mass Cards" where the priest will sign on the date when you went to church. It was part of our final marks for our Religion class and if you keep missing the masses, you will be obliged to repeat the course. Starting from my first to my fourth year in high school, I never missed a Sunday mass. It is a shame that I have not given time to go to church, and the last time I attended a mass was seven years ago.

I have not read the bible for a while, but I remember that The Book of Revelations details the final events the will occur on Earth including Jesus Christ’s (The Messiah) return and that those who remained faithful and believed in God will be rewarded in heaven. I also remember an interpretation where Christianity will decline as evil rises into power. In your opinion, do you think that this event has already started? Do you think that Christianity is starting to fall?

 

[7ca5p]

For years I have been pondering about how my beliefs have changed. As I grow up, I have been exposed to a variety of information regarding Religions and life in general.

As I have mentioned in my earlier post which pertains to my religious belief, I have noticed the difference of how many people were still going to church when I was younger. When I was in high school, we used to have "Mass Cards" where the priest will sign on the date when you went to church. It was part of our final marks for our Religion class and if you keep missing the masses, you will be obliged to repeat the course. Starting from my first to my fourth year in high school, I never missed a Sunday mass. It is a shame that I have not given time to go to church, and the last time I attended a mass was seven years ago.

I have not read the bible for a while, but I remember that The Book of Revelations details the final events the will occur on Earth including Jesus Christ’s (The Messiah) return and that those who remained faithful and believed in God will be rewarded in heaven. I also remember an interpretation where Christianity will decline as evil rises into power. In your opinion, do you think that this event has already started? Do you think that Christianity is starting to fall?

I think that that's a very odd way of looking at it to be honest. As a species;

Humans once believed in witches, and your and my ancestors likely burned innocent women and children at the stakes because they believed they were witches. We have moved on.

Humans once believed that keeping slaves and servants on minimal money was okay. Many people endured absolutely dreadful suffering because of this. The bible advocates the keeping of slaves in many points. We have moved on.

Humans once believed that sacrificing of life would bring us good luck. Heck, the entire Christian doctrine revolves around a ghastly human sacrifice. People slaughtered and then buried children in the foundations of their homes to bring them good luck and protection from evil. We have moved on.

Christianity is falling, but it's not because of evil, it's because of a thing called progression. It happened before the Christian faith, and it will happen long after it. The Christian doctrine is just a tiny speck in time. Minuscule. Progression isn't evil, it's natural.

We will move on.

 

[alasdairm]

define fail?

there's no doubt that christianity is losing ground. "The proportion of the population that can be classified as Christian has declined from 86% in 1990 to 77% in 2001." ARIS Study

it seems more and more (american) citizens are moving away from christianity.

indeed, large numbers of adults are disaffiliating themselves from christianity (and from other organized religions). identification as 'christian' has suffered a loss of 9.7 percentage points in the 11 years covered by that study.

if that trend continues, by around 2042, non-christians will outnumber the christians in the U.S.

alasdair

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

I have not read the bible for a while, but I remember that The Book of Revelations details the final events the will occur on Earth including Jesus Christ’s (The Messiah) return and that those who remained faithful and believed in God will be rewarded in heaven. I also remember an interpretation where Christianity will decline as evil rises into power. In your opinion, do you think that this event has already started? Do you think that Christianity is starting to fall?

Literal interpretations of Revalations are a protestant heresy. You need some Eastern Orthodoxy/Catholocism.

 

[Maya]

I think that that's a very odd way of looking at it to be honest. As a species;

Humans once believed in witches, and your and my ancestors likely burned innocent women and children at the stakes because they believed they were witches. We have moved on.

Humans once believed that keeping slaves and servants on minimal money was okay. Many people endured absolutely dreadful suffering because of this. The bible advocates the keeping of slaves in many points. We have moved on.

Humans once believed that sacrificing of life would bring us good luck. Heck, the entire Christian doctrine revolves around a ghastly human sacrifice. People slaughtered and then buried children in the foundations of their homes to bring them good luck and protection from evil. We have moved on.

Christianity is falling, but it's not because of evil, it's because of a thing called progression. It happened before the Christian faith, and it will happen long after it. The Christian doctrine is just a tiny speck in time. Minuscule. Progression it's evil, it's natural.

We will move on.

This is a really good answer 7Ca5p thank you!

You are definitely right. Humans are changing as time passes by. I believe we are in the era where humans are finding more practical ways to live life and technology enhances our way of living. Our beliefs have changed due to progression and I believe humans are wiser when it comes to decision-making and trials in cases unlike back in the days where people believed in witches and once accused, were burned at stake.

 

[starrystarrynight]

I've read and heard that the religion of Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. I heard a friend of a friend say it actually says ALLA (the name of the 1 God according to Islam) on everyones palms (Al on the left palm and lA on the right palm). He also mentioned the way the fingers are shaped also spell Allah in arabic (the language the holy Qur'an is written in). Jesus (peace be upon him) is regarded as one of the blessed prophets and messiahs in Islam, and whilst he is beloved to God, has no physical relation to the Almighty creator. The religion actually has surprising proof to back it up.

 

[MrGrunge]

I heard a friend of a friend say it actually says ALLA (the name of the 1 God according to Islam) on everyones palms (Al on the left palm and lA on the right palm)

Unless you have Down's Syndrome.

 

[thujone]

Who needs religion when the internet can answer the vast majority of people's questions? Maybe we are trending back towards New Age spirituality, in which the idea of God (the cosmos) is linked to consciousness rather than to some esoteric ubermensch, as portrayed by Christianity.

 

[Tromps]

I've read and heard that the religion of Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

You're right Islam is on the rise, especially in the west. Islam is picking up in the UK and other parts of Europe, even the USA and Australia. I went on Google and found censuses from credible news outlets on the rising amount of Muslim converts. There's no doubt about that. I'm not quiet sure why or what to think of this tbh.

I want to respond to topic, but I'm going to again go over Revelations and fully read it in depth, since you talked about the end times. And just because I want to That said, I do know certain churches of Christianity are growing, while others are declining, all though I'm not sure how Christianity is doing as a whole. From what I remember describing the end times, Christ will return will the spirit of anti-Christ has nearly taken over the world. It's hard to understand because on one hand Jesus calls his followers to spread the gospel and bring the good news to people on all the ends of the earth, while at the same time It's like Jesus is saying there will be little of Christianity left and the world will be so plagued by evil before his return.

Who needs religion when the internet can answer the vast majority of people's questions?

orly? and what does this divinely inspired internet say about spiritual questions regarding God and life after death? 8(

 

[MrGrunge]

orly? and what does this divinely inspired internet say about spiritual questions regarding God and life after death? 8(

It says the same things every religious text says - "we don't know, but here's a guess".

But, unlike these religious texts, the internet can be used to find scholarly articles and empirical evidence for life's great mysteries.

 

[-=SS=-]

It's all swings and roundabouts. Christianity is failing, but so are the other big two of Islam and Judaism. Younger people are rejecting it more frequently (and older people too) because they see the stupidity of it all.. it does nothing to really answer the big questions, which was once the whole point of the religions.. and also science is providing a lot more tangible stuff for people to play with in their heads and work with in their lives.

But the materialistic/atheistic perspective of modern science, championed by fruitloops such as Richard Dawkins, will fail in the end too. People will realize is still doesn't answer the big questions, and it is not capable of answering the biggest question of them all.. Who Am I? I just hope that when it does fail the mainstream opinion won't lean towards newage-ism.. I kind of prefer cynical and angry materialists to fluffy weak newagers.

 

[HypGnosis]

It's hard to understand because on one hand Jesus calls his followers to spread the gospel and bring the good news to people on all the ends of the earth, while at the same time It's like Jesus is saying there will be little of Christianity left and the world will be so plagued by evil before his return.

^Just one of the many contradictions inherent in Christianity

orly? and what does this divinely inspired internet say about spiritual questions regarding God and life after death? 8(

There's this thing called Google...
(hint, you can find pretty much all the works of the greatest philosophers and scientists to have ever walked this planet)

 

[Tromps]

I don't see it as a contradiction. I see it as the struggle his faithful will have to persevere through as the faith is constantly under attack and persecution, they need to stay strong. I forgot to mention Jesus could always return anytime, today, tomorrow, we never know.

I'm not good at communicating this, I'll let the inspired word of God speak, here is a good description of the end times and the persistence Christians will have to endure:

When you hear of wars and insurrections, do not be terrified; for such things must happen first, but it will not immediately be the end. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be powerful earthquakes; sights and mighty signs will come from the sky. . .You will be hated by all because of my name, but not a hair on your head will be destroyed. By your perseverance you will secure your lives. . . There will be signs in the sun, the moon, and the stars, and on earth nations will be in dismay, perplexed by the roaring of the sea and the waves. People will die of fright in anticipation of what is coming upon the world, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
And then they will see the Son of Man with power and great glory. When these signs begin to happen, stand tall and raise your heads because your redemption is at hand. . . Beware that your hearts do not become drowsy from carousing and drunkenness and the anxieties of daily life, and that day catch you by surprise like a trap. For that day will assault everyone who lives on the face of the earth. . . Be vigilant at all times and pray that you have the strength to escape the tribulations that are imminent and to stand before the Son of Man.

 

[Maya]

Thank you for sharing this Tromps and I would also like to share an article that was written in the website: www.tedmontgomery.com, about the Prophecy of Nostradamus, stating the death of the three popes/catholic church and Anti-Christ:


Prophecies of Nostradamus
Part 1: Key People in the Time of Troubles

Background/overview of the Antichrist

In the early 1990s, the Antichrist is beginning the realization of his ambitions. He will start his political career at a local level and continue to advance, becoming ever more greedy of power. The Antichrist will become a world leader, even though he misuses his power. The root meanings of his names will give a clue of his destiny and what he is capable of. The names may sound somewhat barbaric to European ears. He will be influenced by old customs known in the literature but generally forgotten.

The Antichrist will be worse than Hitler. He presently is living in the Middle East. He is at a very crucial time in his life, when impressions will influence his future lifepath. Currently in his realm there is a lot of violence, political maneuvering, and corruption. The atmosphere is having an effect an effect on him, and he's coming to realize what his destiny is.

He will succeed in conquests but only at the cost of terrible bloodshed by conventional weapons, but he will save his nuclear arsenal for later unspeakable deeds. So many people will be killed that the living will not be able to haul them away to be buried fast enough. The people of the world will be accustomed to the sight of corpses, and the sight of death will will not make people squeamish because they will be around it so much.

Neither Kadaffi nor the Ayatollah Khomeni are the Antichrist, but they will contribute to the destabilization of the region that will aid his rise to power.

He will be educated in Egypt because of its current stability and strategic position to the Middle East and North Africa.

The social upheavals of the times will contribute to laying the way for the Antichrist to take over. Various countries will have their social and political structures turned totally upside down. Religious fanatics (not spiritual people) will come into power and believe they are justified in their draconian campaigns. The religious fervor allows the Antichrist to come into power through persuasive guile. His followers will regard him as a religious figure.

Despite the massive propaganda campaigns of the Antichrist that paint a grand and wondrous picture of his worldwide achievements, other glimpses of his heinous atrocities "behind the scenes" will leak out. He will not be able to live up to the image his followers project of him.

The Antichrist will be in action near the Mediterranean Sea, the Red Sea, and the Arabian Sea. He will gain immense world-wide power. Thursday will be an important day for him; he will take it as his day of worship. He will be a threat to everyone, but particularly in the East because he will gain control of China, Russia, and the entire Asian continent, for the first time in world history.

The social and political upheavals orchestrated by the Antichrist will be felt particularly in northern, developed countries with cooler climates. During his time, societies will be torn and cast into chaos and confusion. Many doomsayers will arise as false prophets, claiming to have divine revelations and knowing the path of salvation for the people.

For a short period, in the reign of the Antichrist over his realm, there will be no fighting because of his police state. But people will begin to rebel in the memory of lost freedoms. There will be very much death and destruction, with many people dying for their cause. Prophecies from Revelation in the Bible will apply. The times will be extremely violent and traumatic.

The Antichrist will take Thursday as his day of reverence. There will be enormous warfare and bloodshed from his weapons, one "a monster borne of a very hideous beast." Hard radiation will cause gross deformities, terrible mutations in nature, in plants and animals as well as in the earth. There will be great pain and despair.

Political & religious philosophies of the Antichrist

The Antichrist will develop a systematic philosophy based on Marx and Engels that takes advantage of the elements related to the complete control of a population. Russia and China will be vulnerable to the philosophy because of their past receptivity to Communism. The Antichrist will use his philosophy as a way of conquering the entire Asian continent before setting out to take over the rest of the world. His philosophies will be propagated through manipulations of the different institutions of political power.

The Antichrist will corrupt the religion of Christianity with the intent of destroying it, but he also will distort the beliefs of Islam. He will disguise his agenda of conquest as a way of life and a replacement for religion.

He will study and emulate Hitler and his techniques avidly to try to surpass him and avoid his mistakes. He will have access to books and material not available or known to the general public. It will be possible for him to obtain secret Nazi documents on Hitler, and he will study them very carefully.

This man will be doomed from the start of his campaign, because he is against central spiritual forces that make up the fabric of the universe. For people who choose this path, "It's just a matter of how far they go before they fail and what effects they have on the lives around them." Like the ultimate downfall of many tyrants, his empire and power will be inherently unstable. His own subcommanders will be power hungry in his image, and his authority will fragment around him. The political map of the world, the boundaries of countries, will change but the continents of the world will still be shaped the same.

Death of the three popes / Catholic Church & the Antichrist

The present Pope will be assassinated [may refer to assassinations attempts of Pope John Paul II in 1981 and 1982], and the Pope following him will not last long. The final pope will be a tool of the Antichrist. The Roman church is already a tool of the Antichrist, indirectly supporting his aims, even though they may not be aware of it.

The last three popes of the Catholic church will fall in short succession. The third to the last [John Paul II?] will die from an assassin's shooting. The second-to-last will be "swallowed up" by the schemings of the Antichrist. The last, the one born slightly misshapen, will go the greatest distance in destroying the church. The Antichrist will use him for awhile until he gets in the way, at which point he will be eliminated. His treachery will accelerate, and his death will signal, the end of the Catholic Church.

Second-to-last pope "swallowed" by Antichrist's schemings

The second-to-last pope will have a short reign. Due to political blunders and mistakes, he will pave the way for the final pope to be a tool of the Antichrist. His reign will be an omen of the final downfall of the church.

Before the Antichrist comes to full power, it will appear that other leaders are above him and in control of the power structure. In reality the Antichrist will be using them as stepping stones in his quest for world power. During this period, he will have a traitorous cardinal working for him, spying on the second-to-last Pope. One of the cardinals will steal information from him and alter the Pope's personal correspondence, so that it has different connotations. It will make the situation appear inordinately worse than it is in reality, causing the Pope to react inappropriately. This way, the populace will be more likely to see him as incompetent and his authority will be destablized, possibly by being assassinated. The cardinal will be troubled by his betrayal because of the obvious dissension it causes the Church; but being allied with the Antichrist, he will rationalize away his backstabbing.

The treachery of the final pope

The last Pope will be elected shortly after the discovery of the tomb of an ancient Roman whose philosophies greatly influence western thought, something like within a year's time. This is the "poisonous" Pope that is actually only a tool for the Antichrist, who will bring about the ultimate destruction of the Catholic Church.

The last Pope probably will be French, with a swarthy complexion and blue eyes. There will be an air of mystery to him. He will have a physical deformity of some sort, like a slightly hunched shoulder or clubfoot, a congenital defect in the bone. (It won't be caused by injury, since he will have been born with it.) His mind will be scarred by the deformity and the cruelty and callousness of people toward others who are different.

He will enter the church at a young age out of bitterness and desperation, knowing he would never get a girl to love and marry him. His parents will be involved with the Nazi movement in France, and his schoolmates will taunt him with names like "Nazi lover." This Pope could have been kindly if it weren't for his childhood environment and experiences, but instead will be warped into cruelty from pain. He will want to "get back" at the world for his suffering while young. This is a weakness that the Antichrist exploits.

This Pope will want to show his enemies, "Look at me; I'm powerful; I can do it; I'm better than you." After he attains the power he desires, he will be indirectly responsible for the murders of innocent people because of his alignment with the Antichrist. He will not murder anyone himself but will open up avenues for the Antichrist to do so, particularly those who hurt him when he was young. This future Pope will appear to be kindly on the surface because it is advantageous for him to be perceived that way, but the sinister side of his personality will be deeply rooted.

The final pope will betray his Church by revealing extremely crucial and sensitive information directly to the Antichrist, information that the Antichrist could never have obtained even through his spies in the Church.

Demise of the Catholic Church

Ruin will befall the Catholic Church because of its leaders' ambitions for illegitimate power. The leaders will become vainglorious and think that they can handle whatever they desire to grasp, and it will be their downfall. Their ambitions will be chilled when they fail and the Church will be subject to great upheaval, with the Pope ultimately being dethroned. Catholics, alienated and disillusioned with the powermongering, will no longer support the church, and the sphere of influence of the Church will diminish greatly.

The base of the Catholic Church in Rome will be destroyed in an accident, as if the city sank into the sea. This will coincide somewhat with events in the Middle east and some people will connect the two, but in reality it will be a coincidence. However the Arabs quickly will take advantage of the situation, even though they didn't cause it. The restrictions of the Vatican will cause the church to crumble. They may rally, but it will be a blow from which they will never recover.

The downfall will reveal why the church finally collapsed after surviving so many centuries. The accident will be a combination of natural and human-triggered disasters. The force will involve the sea and a great energy force from the sky descending and dissolving the landscape. It will be termed a natural disaster because it will be beyond the capability of anyone on the earth to produce the force. No one be able to find any cause, so it will be labelled an "Act of Nature." However, the more important event of the time, which people will be distracted from noticing, will be the Antichrist's invasion of Turkey.

I am not too sure if you consider Nostradamus as a prophet or not but since most of his predictions IMO happened, I wouldn't dismiss entirely his prophecies about the fall of Roman Catholic church. Whether many will believe this or not is entirely up to them.

 

[thujone]

Nostradamus also published a metric buttload of predictions that totally never happened. I guess if you write enough vague prophecies some are bound to line up with actual historic events here and there. Have you ever read the Farmer's Almanac? I think it's fascinating how accurately it can predict the weather a whole year in advance. But here's the catch: it's based on a long history of astronomical data and only makes vague predictions, which is why we still need to depend on the meteorologist if we want to know whether the sun will shine at three o'clock tomorrow. By the same token, it's likely Nostradamus studied an obscene amount of history throughout his life and started making predictions based on his analysis of mass social behaviour. His penchant for region-specific predictions focusing on Eurasia seems to support that idea, as European and Asian history at that time was well-documented. The printing press was already ubiquitous by the time Nostradamus lived, so it's reasonable to assume that he could have had access to an enormous amount of historical texts in convenient book format, especially since he spent a great deal of his life in academia and his final years living in proximity to a trade hub on the Mediterranean, where the majority of the historical knowledge of the world was being disseminated at that time.

Footnote: this idea that sufficient knowledge of history could serve as a basis for predictions on the future was popular with Karl Marx, who refined the concept under the label of historical materialism.

 

[pk.]

The Prophecy of St. Nilus [1639]


After the year 1900, toward the middle of the 20th century, the people of that time will become unrecognizable. When the time for the Advent of the Antichrist approaches, people's minds will grow cloudy from carnal passions, and dishonor and lawlessness will grow stronger. Then the world will become unrecognizable.

People's appearances will change, and it will be impossible to distinguish men from women due to their shamelessness in dress and style of hair. These people will be cruel and will be like wild animals because of the temptations of the Antichrist. There will be no respect for parents and elders, love will disappear, and Christian pastors, bishops, and priests will become vain men, completely failing to distinguish the right-hand way from the left.

At that time the morals and traditions of Christians and of the Church will change. People will abandon modesty, and dissipation will reign. Falsehood and greed will attain great proportions, and woe to those who pile up treasures. Lust, adultery, homosexuality, secret deeds and murder will rule in society.

At that future time, due to the power of such great crimes and licentiousness, people will be deprived of the grace of the Holy Spirit, which they received in Holy Baptism and equally of remorse. The Churches of God will be deprived of God-fearing and pious pastors, and woe to the Christians remaining in the world at that time; they will completely lose their faith because they will lack the opportunity of seeing the light of knowledge from anyone at all. Then they will separate themselves out of the world in holy refuges in search of lightening their spiritual sufferings, but everywhere they will meet obstacles and constraints.

And all this will result from the fact that the Antichrist wants to be Lord over everything and become the ruler of the whole universe, and he will produce miracles and fantastic signs. He will also give depraved wisdom to an unhappy man so that he will discover a way by which one man can carry on a conversation with another from one end of the earth to the other.

At that time men will also fly through the air like birds and descend to the bottom of the sea like fish. And when they have achieved all this, these unhappy people will spend their lives in comfort without knowing, poor souls, that it is deceit of the Antichrist.

And, the impious one!—he will so complete science with vanity that it will go off the right path and lead people to lose faith in the existence of God in three hypostases. Then the All-good God will see the downfall of the human race and will shorten the days for the sake of those few who are being saved, because the enemy wants to lead even the chosen into temptation, if that is possible... then the sword of chastisement will suddenly appear and kill the perverter and his servants.

 

[rickolasnice]

I think that that's a very odd way of looking at it to be honest. As a species;

Humans once believed in witches, and your and my ancestors likely burned innocent women and children at the stakes because they believed they were witches. We have moved on.

Humans once believed that keeping slaves and servants on minimal money was okay. Many people endured absolutely dreadful suffering because of this. The bible advocates the keeping of slaves in many points. We have moved on.

Humans once believed that sacrificing of life would bring us good luck. Heck, the entire Christian doctrine revolves around a ghastly human sacrifice. People slaughtered and then buried children in the foundations of their homes to bring them good luck and protection from evil. We have moved on.

Christianity is falling, but it's not because of evil, it's because of a thing called progression. It happened before the Christian faith, and it will happen long after it. The Christian doctrine is just a tiny speck in time. Minuscule. Progression it's evil, it's natural.

We will move on.

This.

Also..

http://www.mamamia.com.au/news/atheism-is-the-new-religion/

Don't fear the change, Maya, embrace it.

 

[scraphead]

My dilemma is the Christian church (as in going to) & Christian faith. Church is run & attended by people while faith comes from within. I would say keep faith with Christianity but be more sceptical about the people.

 

[Ninae]

The Christian Faith started to fall with each new translation of The Bible, where, for political and financial reasons, each translaton was further removed from Jesus original teachings.

i.e. "I am not the only way" was changed to "I am the only way and no one can reach God but through me". When he had travelled the world extensively and seen people of all faiths achieve illumination with his own eyes.

But in those times it was the only way to control the masses. Now we have the media/entertainment, which is indefinitely mored powerful than any thousand-year-old religion could be.

 

[Maya]

My dilemma is the Christian church (as in going to) & Christian faith. Church is run & attended by people while faith comes from within. I would say keep faith with Christianity but be more sceptical about the people.

You have a good point, not attending a mass does not mean that faith has been shattered or changed. I think that people (including me), who continuously educate themselves and become more open to other information and other religion have a better understanding of what to believe. In any religion, the people is what is causing the problem, not the religion itself.