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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

The EADD Spirituality Thread

I've always had problems with the simplistic idea that 'after' i die 'i' go somewhere else and have another type of life in 'heaven' (or a bardo or whatever). I can't imagine there would be an 'i' involved; surely death would include at least ego-death (with the death of the required brain furniture) - and if there's no ego surviving death, heaven certainly won't be as some christians/muslims imagine it (like here but nicer).

Agreed.

The stuff i was waffling before is bits of hindu cosmology mashed up with Einstein's views of time/god, Many Worlds theory and Paul Dirac's quantum view of time (wedged together with lashings of scifi, acid and magical thinking). Much of Hindu cosomology is imo so much more interesting/sophisticated than the abrahamic stuff - it can easily be squeezed into a modern scientific cosmology context (some of it doesn't even need squeezing).

Seems a good place for me to start. Perhaps I'll look at Einstein's views & then over Hindu cosmology... any guidance as to where to look?

I think I'm similar (apart from the agnostic part) in that I don't necessarily believe that any one religion or belief (or science currently) offers all the answers, rather than there are insights that many of these have to offer that I can use to explore my own spirituality.

For me, exploring the origins of the universe & spirituality are inexorably linked.
 
And you think you're realistic to consider us as "insignificant as fuck"?

If an asteroid smashed into earth tomorrow and destroyed the planet or at the very least wiped out the human population, the universe wouldn't give 2 fucks. Everything outside our little bubble would keep on turning the same as it has for billions of years. We are nothing.
 
If an asteroid smashed into earth tomorrow and destroyed the planet or at the very least wiped out the human population, the universe wouldn't give 2 fucks. Everything outside our little bubble would keep on turning the same as it has for billions of years. We are nothing.

Well put. You've explained that better than my few clumsy attempts.
 
We are nothing.

I understand where you guys are coming from but you are just taking this concept to extremes just to prove a point.

Starting to get a little philosophical here, but if our existence in the Universe is an exception, largely speaking, then despite the fact we have next to no impact on the universe itself, that does not mean we are insignificant. All life in the universe is significant whether or not it can be wiped out in an instant. (leaving no lasting traces behind). Let's not also forget that in our own eyes we are significant... I suppose it is a biological imperative to consider ones self as significant.

We are nothing but are also everything.
 
Let's not also forget that in our own eyes we are significant...

And that's the sum total of this 'significant' argument. That's the ONLY way we are significant. Our egos fool us into thinking we are the centre of the universe. We're not.
 
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...Seems a good place for me to start. Perhaps I'll look at Einstein's views & then over Hindu cosmology... any guidance as to where to look?...

Well i'm just (badly) paraphrasing einstein: He was pretty much against organised religion and the usual ideas of 'god', though he considered himself agnostic not atheist (he liked Spinoza's pantheism i think) - though there are plenty of quotes around (many probabaly misquotes) which show he was a bit more 'mystical' than the average physicist.

His view of time was pretty determinist though (like destiny and that); i don't like that so i chukced in Many Worlds theory on top: Many Worlds/Everett/Wheeler hypothesis is also basically deterministic - it solves the quantum problem by saying there's a new universe for every choice that can be made (like in one universe the particle goes through left slit, and in another through the right) - at the particle level, the freshly split universes overlap slightly, hence the wave interference even from one photon - so no need for a collapsing wavefunction; the downside is it requires there to be 10^100 universes different from ours by only one particle (and god knows how many others) - it does remove the 'weirdness' of quantum mechanics (waves of probability and such), but most physicists can't stomach it (they're mostly pretty concrete types - they've got equations that work, so they'd rather not think about how kooky it all is).

David Deutsch's The Fabric of Reality is a good in-depth look at the many worlds hypothesis; though it's quite heavy (if you haven't read much physics, John Gribbin books might be better - he does popular science books on quantum physics/cosmology that are really easy to read and 'get' (though still cover it properly)).

I skimmed a book by Paul Dirac about his work on quantum time (can't remember the book, i read about it elsewhere too). This basically says at a quantum level there's no real arrow of time - time can go forward or backward and the equations work out the same. He also gives this idea of stacked 'moments' existing in themselves without need of an arrow of time - the 'causality' is just a traceable line through a sequence of adjacent moments, but as far as the equations are concerned this has no fundamental direction

(here's a link i googled about similar stuff - http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-09/book-excerpt-there-no-such-thing-time)

...

Though maybe more cosmic-hippy-hindu-influenced physics would be more up your street: Try The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra - slightly old physics, but loads of comparisons with hindu/buddhist/taoist writings - really good. His later book The Web of Life is good too, focussing more on interesting biology/self-organising systems/fractals.

...

I'm not really sure what to recommend for hindu cosmology: it's a really varied faith with loads of different sects with different emphases and mythologies. I wouldn't want to recommend actually joining it (except maybe in some mellow less mainstream denomination) - it's got loads of ancient 'wisdom' worked out from heavy yoga, but it's also got a fair dollop of nastiness, like the caste system - (to emphasise again hinduism's not a single faith (though the new indian government would like it thought that way)).

I suppose the Bhagavad Gita is a fair place to start (nice and short) if you want to read actual hindu texts (some cosmology, but loads of other stuff too). I just pick and choose what i fancy as a rule: google it and see what comes up (there are some cool Krishna-based cosmologies on the internet somewhere;....here we are - that's well sci-fi).

I also got alot out of Karen Armstrong's books on religion - fascinating to me on all religions, but she goes through hindu and buddhist history in a few books (i find this slightly objective though sympathetic look at the history of religions valuable, as you usually only get the religion's dodgy version (or another religion/culture's hate-version)
 
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^I like what i've heard of alan watts, but i need to get round to reading/listening to him properly (i have sampled him for music quite a bit ;)) - any vids/books you recommend?

I prefer more westernised zen/buddhism - often it seems people get off on the exotica of eg tibetan buddhism more than the actual message (wearing funny clothes and dropping sanskrit into the conversation)
 
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I see what you're saying about our pipsqueak place in the scheme of things, and i would certainly advocate humility when confronted by the vastness of gaia/sol/milky way etc. I'd just say that everything (or nothing) is significant, looked at from a certain angle. Everywhere is where the big bang happened, so that's pretty significant (or at least mooches some significance off of BB).

it seems to be a property of this reality that the interesting and significant stuff happens on the borders and edges of stuff (like fractals). Significance is a totally subjective thing anyway (like everything we experience i spose).
 
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But it was all created for us, aye?
 
it's hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy btw (source of much of my favourite spirituality ;))

I'm also a pope of the discordian society as it happens. Here's some dogma (or is it a catma?):

All statements are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense.
The Free Mantra of Sri Syadasti Syadavaktavya Syadasti Syannasti Syadasti Cavaktavyasca Syadasti Syannasti Syadavatavyasca Syadasti Syannasti Syadavaktavyasca (for some strange reason, commonly called Sri Syadasti)

Also heretically expressed as: "All affirmations are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense." and "The teachings of the Sri Syadasti School of Spiritual School of Spiritual Wisdom are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense." — will heresies never cease?

The Law of Fives states simply that: ALL THINGS HAPPEN IN FIVES, OR ARE DIVISIBLE BY OR ARE MULTIPLES OF FIVE, OR ARE SOMEHOW DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY APPROPRIATE TO 5.

The Law of Fives is never wrong.

Principia Discordia
 
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ooooo here it is *does a dance like an hyperactive, excited child*. The Spiritual Thread.

Am back on the spiritual path with the fight against toxic, negative energy. Have got myself back into crystals (have myself an already collection of them) but am buying new necklaces as been to spiritual forums for advice n stuff!

I feel it colliding around n within me all the time---negative vvs positive energy. But I shut the door on spirituality over 5 years ago when was hurt over ex.... But can no longer let him win by being anger person n always expecting the worst from people. Must return to the positive, energy which is how one gets to the higher, faster vibrations n leave misery behind.

Misery loves company y'know n I found myself having comfort in the negative vibrations, which is kinda disturbing.

Re-reading a good spiritual book that I bought n read back in 2005 on how to re-connect with spirit n to let go of ego.

But will leave this for the bookiez thread, eh.

oooo 'tis ace to back!!!!

Evey
 
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