Conspiracies The Covid Narrative

[ItzCritz]

I think you have more faith in the good intentions of your fellow citizens and government than I do. I suspect that first generation immigrants would be rounded up at the least, along with any with close family ties to the mainland. Which kind of highlights my point - these are similar situations, I think the general populace would be considerably more amenable to that kind of restriction than they are for the virus. Wars are associated with patriotic sacrifice. The US citizenry accepted, with little complaint, significant rationing and restriction of movement during WW2. COVID has killed more Americans than WW2, and people have chafed against relatively minor restrictions like masks since day 1.

Speaking of this, before vaccine's we had inoculations which seriously helped the American Revolutionary war towards the end of the conflict. They are similar to vaccine's but, they aren't injected as hypodermic needles were not around yet. Here is a quote from History.com with the relevant article linked.

“An inoculation doctor would cut an incision in the flesh of the person being inoculated and implant a thread laced with live pustular matter into the wound,” explains Fenn. “The hope and intent was for the person to come down with smallpox. When smallpox was conveyed in that fashion, it was usually a milder case than it was when it was contracted in the natural way.” How Crude Smallpox Inoculations Helped George Washington Win the War

They are extremely risky at around a 5 to 10% of people receiving it to have serious complications including a possibility of death. Small Pox was a major threat to taking us out of contention. Near the end of the war, Washington ordered all new recruits, and those who have never contracted Small Pox to receive the inoculation.

Can't stand the division and whiney entitlement In my country today. It disgusts me that a mask has to be a political issue, everyone sues everyone, and everyone can only think of them selves "OH IM YOUNG I DONT NEED NO STIRNKIN MASK" . Personally if the country was united. we'd stand firm to end this shit, yet freedom is turning into our Achilles heel. Countrie's that lack freedom united under a dictator or communism seem more untied then ever, and why we politicize vaccines and a pandemic and people dying instead of trying to actually solve it togther is beyond me.

This is turning political, I apologize, Just wanted to share the innoculations in the revolutionary war bit. I will probably make a thread about it in the correct forum still a new BL my bad heheh.

 

[Hannah Capps]

Actually it's turning into thoughtful discussion by all means please continue!
I had received a PM from alasdair and my response was simply to help clarify things for him. Forgive me, I am still very much in painful snot nosed grief at the passing of Limipt Chicken.

 

[ItzCritz]

Uneven vaccination rates across the US linked to Covid-19 case trends, worry experts​

In mid-December, before the first dose of Covid-19 vaccine was administered in the United States, the Covid-19 case rate in New Jersey was tracking very close to the national average. Now, New Jersey has become a leader in vaccinations. It's one of the seven states that has already vaccinated more than 70% of adults with at least dose -- and the latest 7-day average of new cases in the state is about a third of the national average.

While New Jersey illustrates the link between higher vaccination rates and lower case rates, there are exceptions. Like New Jersey, Maine has also vaccinated more than 70% of adults with at least one dose of vaccine, but has reported one of the five worst per capita rates of new Covid-19 cases over the past week. And on the other end of the spectrum, Arkansas has one of the 10 lowest vaccination rates but one of the 10 lowest per capita rates of Covid-19 cases over the past week.



Ya see how stupid that is? Thats from CNN...Ya read the headline, and the first paragraph, and it makes you believe one thing....but then you read that second paragraph, and realize, what you just read was absolute bullshit

Using Arkansas to push not needing vax's since they barely have received them, well the problem is my ex lived in Arkansas, and there is NOTHING THERE everyone lives spread out, the town may have 1 little street, or tiny neighborhoods. Or the bowling alley had 2 lanes, I kid you not, and her movie theatre in Searcy (she lived in BeBe) was previously a large house that was renovated with an addition of 3 large theatres (still maybe 15 to 20% the size of any normal theatres viewing room). SO, OF COURSE, THEY HAVE LOW PER CAPITA. Even without the vaccines, they should geo logistically speaking always have a low capita in the state's current layout.
I am pretty much an independent politically with FISCAL conservative views (money policy, taxes, economic) no not republican, and I will vote for whoever incentivizes corps to pay employee's more with tax credits, and lower corporate/ landowner taxes which equates to lower costs of living and more jobs. But yes CNN is the master of having a good title, or first paragraph, the journalism technique of false facade. They always shill is utter nonsense with next to no sources for most of their stories, unless it's about someone saving a cat from a tree I believe that. I hate Fox equally as much, I used to like the network, but they have changed as well. I respect 2 anchors on fox and 0 on CNN, typically I watch Bill Oreily nowadays, he just tells it as it is.

Anyways the vaccine's well most brands work, and You should get them if you live with family, children, or older adults. If you are at risk or work with the public. *Not Medical Advice* I will always support the freedom of choice to say no to a vaccine or any decision! I won't down anyone for not wanting to get the vaccine, but I will definitely never let people who think the Measles Mumps Polio Rubella, etc, and other childhood vaccines are some conspiracies that go unchallenged. Has there been bad use of vaccines, yes absolutely. Was it the vaccine's fault, no. That's like saying guns kill people of their own accord. There are bad people, who create vaccines, but the standard childhood vaccines are not. The most recent bad vaccine I can give an example of is the Dengue Vaccine scandal in the Philippines.

Make your own informed decisions, actually educate yourself on the product. If you are allergic or have bad reactions then, by all means, do not get the vaccine, otherwise, I hope we don't get to the point where it's like1905 again and we have to worry about catching polio or Varicella/shingles, measles, small pox, and mumps as a daily concern.

 

[ItzCritz]

Actually it's turning into thoughtful discussion by all means please continue!
I had received a PM from alasdair and my response was simply to help clarify things for him. Forgive me, I am still very much in painful snot nosed grief at the passing of Limipt Chicken.

I am a new blue lighter, was this a member who passed away ?

 

[cduggles]

I am a new blue lighter, was this a member who passed away ?

Welcome to Bluelight and CEP&S!
Yes, it was.

 

[ItzCritz]

Welcome to Bluelight and CEP&S!
Yes, it was.

I am so sorry for everyone's loss, way too much of that going around 2020 and 21 continued.

 

[CFC]

Some more updates on worldwide vaccine progress:

Canada's rate of first-dose vaccination has shot up very quickly, but US progress seems to have slumped somewhat. The following graph probably helps explain why:

Looks like almost 30% in the US are planning to forego Gate's microchip implants. It's also striking how much more willing Brits seem to be to get vaccinated than people in other countries. Vast swathes of the country now have 100% vaccination rates in the eligible over 70 age group, and greater than 99% in the 55-69 bracket. I can't really account for it, maybe because of the NHS, but most other countries also have universal healthcare systems so....

If you look at attitudes over time, though, it does suggest public opinion in the US may be shifting slightly, and even moreso in France:

 

[Jabberwocky]

Looks like almost 30% in the US are planning to forego Gate's microchip implants. It's also striking how much more willing Brits seem to be to get vaccinated than people in other countries. Vast swathes of the country now have 100% vaccination rates in the eligible over 70 age group, and greater than 99% in the 55-69 bracket. I can't really account for it, maybe because of the NHS, but most other countries also have universal healthcare systems so....

this is really weird. i'm not surprised at the US- given all their sovereign citizen malarky. but i am surprised about the brits doing something sensible for the first time in a long time. the french are probably hesitant because the brits are doing it so long running rivalries mean they don't want to. (this is semi sarcastic please don't get offended any french ppl).

indian rates are low because they are not vaccinating for free. not sure about other countries with low rates.

i wonder if part of brits' enthusiasm to get vaccinated is the weather. i'm sure everywhere else has had long lockdowns too, but it has been raining continuously here forever, we had like 2 nice days in april. the whole country. if your country is locked down but you can at least get outside it must be much easier to cope with lockdowns. my city has been in tier 3 or above since september and i'm not exaggerating that in that time we've had less than 5 days where you can reliably get outside for more than a few minutes.

i have no idea what conditions for socialising have been like outside in other countries but i can't imagine they've been worse for a whole 9 months. so my guess is that when you're this fatigued with the whole thing you're more likely to do whatever the fuck you can to end it.

pure speculation but sometimes that is fun to indulge in. other thing that jumps to mind is the media- i know its pretty nutty in the states, over here even our nutty media has been pro vaccine, no idea about france or elsewhere.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

What do you guys think about the "booster" shot that Fauci says will be needed at some point. Maybe as early as the fall.

And that you MAY not be protected against the variants coming out of India and progressing through Europe and has possibly made landfall in the US?

 

[jpgrdnr]

^^ I've heard an argument by experts against a booster as being unnecessary.

I would hazard a guess that the rate of mutation in India is extremely high. There is simply a high enough population density, like in Brazil where it has nowhere to go but to mutate.

SARS-CoV-2 lineage B.1.617 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I would simply guess that on a far enough time line that it will progress into something else. You would think that people in India would have a certain level of resistance and/or a strong immune system based on density alone. But that doesn't seem to be the case. India is also one of these countries where not everyone is going to afford to buy a mask, or have the intellectual capacity to understand what it is, or get vaccinated. And who is a long term carrier, etc. I suppose at some point its just simple math that cases will level off as people build antibodies or die. I'd be curious to see how adaptable the virus is to vaccinated persons, and I suppose in the next year we will see exactly that.

I would say its completely different with a transmission of ~10% (or more) and a higher lethality, and approaches what is traditionally a pandemic.

 

[Foreigner]

Some more updates on worldwide vaccine progress:

Canada's rate of first-dose vaccination has shot up very quickly, but US progress seems to have slumped somewhat. The following graph probably helps explain why:

Looks like almost 30% in the US are planning to forego Gate's microchip implants. It's also striking how much more willing Brits seem to be to get vaccinated than people in other countries. Vast swathes of the country now have 100% vaccination rates in the eligible over 70 age group, and greater than 99% in the 55-69 bracket. I can't really account for it, maybe because of the NHS, but most other countries also have universal healthcare systems so....

If you look at attitudes over time, though, it does suggest public opinion in the US may be shifting slightly, and even moreso in France:

This is great data, thank you. The news never talks about the stats for unwillingness to be vaccinated. It's like an info blackout. They just keep applying the pressure.

I'm not getting an experimental drug. No thank you. Not after everything I've read in the research. Not to mention over 100,000 adverse reactions reported in the USA alone, and it's estimated that only 10% get reported.

They can do the phase IV clinical trials and post for peer review before I'll ever consider their profit-making drugs.

 

[mal3volent]

What do you guys think about the "booster" shot that Fauci says will be needed at some point. Maybe as early as the fall.

And that you MAY not be protected against the variants coming out of India and progressing through Europe and has possibly made landfall in the US?

I'm going to do what the leading experts in the field recommend. It stuns me that anyone would do anything less. The progress we've made so far is due to their guidance so I see no reason to stop.

 

[aemetha]

not sure about other countries with low rates.

New Zealand rates are low because the vaccine was not granted emergency authorization here, instead needing the full authorization because it wasn't considered an emergency since out quarantine has kept covid out and our lockdown eliminated community transmission.

While New Zealand looks low compared to countries like the US, our vaccine rollout is in fact proceeding on schedule. with over 65's and people at higher risk currently receiving the vaccine, and the general population rollout to follow in the next couple of months.

 

[ItzCritz]

I can tell you from Florida, that a large group of my friends live rurally on a farm, and they are all anti-vaxxers and the sentiment, of Sovereign Independence, and the govt is microchipping or BIG PHARMA JUST WANTS TO GET RICH dominants their thoughts. One of my friend's wives their her firstborn had a bad reaction to her childhood series and almost died of encephalitis, and that pretty much turned the whole family into crystal healing people although I can understand not wanting to get them anymore for her and her children, don't drag the whole world into your fallacious conspiracy ways of thinking. People used to do in their 30s to 40s on average back in the day, and the statistics don't lie for the years following MAJOR vaccine and anti-biotic break-throughs. Except for the husband's younger brother my best friend, And the family's mother is pro-vaccine.

Anti-vax nonsense has spread like cancer in my area.... I just repeatedly cite every time the argument comes up the number of measles/polio cases year per year and then look at the year after the vaccine is widely available, and within a decade these diseases are nearly eradicated in fully vaccinated areas.

Sorry, but as they only ever say oh Evan does the FLU shot work. Well YES, it does actually but it only covers 4 strains, and the reason you need 1 a year is the strains mutate so fast. 2nd is that even if you catch a strain of FLU not covered, You likely will have much less severe symptoms and recover much faster.

They just repeat themselves, and say its microchips or big pharma scam, population control so you die younger.. and I again cite "I just repeatedly cite every time the argument comes up the number of measles/polio cases year per year and then look at the year after the vaccine is widely available, and within a decade these diseases are nearly eradicated in fully vaccinated areas." And around and around the merry go round of pointless arguing crystals and fairy magic vs statistics of the release of MMR, Polio, Small Pox vaccines, etc we go

 

[Jabberwocky]

I would hazard a guess that the rate of mutation in India is extremely high. There is simply a high enough population density, like in Brazil where it has nowhere to go but to mutate.

in the wikipedia article you linked to it states that there are 13 lineage defining mutations for B1.617 - these will probably be mutations with respect to the wuhan reference, which tbh probably no one has had since like january 2020 or something, so the number of mutations with respect to more recent sub strains will be lower. SARS-COV2 has such a long genome (for an RNA virus) because it encodes proofreadng apparatus, so its rate of mutation is far lower than that of other RNA viruses.

that said, you are correct that anywhere where any virus is allowed to run rampant- which Modi basically actively encouraged in India- we would naturally expect higher number of mutations. every single time a virus is replicated in a host cell there is a chance of a mutation, so the more people infected, the more mutations we'll see.

BIG PHARMA JUST WANTS TO GET RICH dominants their thoughts.

i don't understand this argument. big pharma makes a ton more money if you end up in hospital needing a host of drugs over a long period.

 

[ItzCritz]

in the wikipedia article you linked to it states that there are 13 lineage defining mutations for B1.617 - these will probably be mutations with respect to the wuhan reference, which tbh probably no one has had since like january 2020 or something, so the number of mutations with respect to more recent sub strains will be lower. SARS-COV2 has such a long genome (for an RNA virus) because it encodes proofreadng apparatus, so its rate of mutation is far lower than that of other RNA viruses.

that said, you are correct that anywhere where any virus is allowed to run rampant- which Modi basically actively encouraged in India- we would naturally expect higher number of mutations. every single time a virus is replicated in a host cell there is a chance of a mutation, so the more people infected, the more mutations we'll see.


i don't understand this argument. big pharma makes a ton more money if you end up in hospital needing a host of drugs over a long period.

Right this is why I don't even bother arguing with that group of friends, they believe in micro chips, flat earth, and think we have never been to the moon or have a space station.
SO I DONT EVEN BOTHER

 

[ItzCritz]

IF and IF ( actually I am sure some drug manufacturers are guilty of this) you want to make the most money, YOU TREAT a disease, you don't immunize to it. YOU DON'T cure it.

On that topic, the original HPVC Cure pills Harvoni was discovered by accident they were studying something else, IDR what they were trying to do, but a quick google search tomorrow, and I will cite that. ( However, if your liver has too much cirrhosis and HPVc lvls too high you might be too far gone to be cured, but still might decrease the risk of mortality for a few years)

While this is a vaccine thread, just wanna keep on the topic of my post, I actually was cured of HPVC in 2013 not remission. Diagnosed in 11, blue cross kept denying me the treatment, and I was going downhill faster than most, actually got temporary disability in 2 months time. Blue cross, however, was sued by Gilead, class action for denying people treatment because they didn't want to pay the 100k for the pills, and finally my claim went through. I'll actually start a thread one day about my VERY unusual and aggressive experience with hep C.

Wish they could make a HEPC vaccine like they have A and B, but it really was quite amazing that Covids vax went as fast as it did. Albeit it's not perfect, but better than nothing. Don't trust china's and not a fan of Astra Zeneca, but it's not in my bottom 2 of the vaccines which are chinas and johnsons. I am just basing off 3 things. Efficacy, Reported Severe Adverse Reactions, and hmm lost my train of thought

 

[Xorkoth]

Wish they could make a HEPC vaccine like they have A and B, but it really was quite amazing that Covids vax went as fast as it did. Albeit it's not perfect, but better than nothing. Don't trust china's and not a fan of Astra Zeneca, but it's not in my bottom 2 of the vaccines which are chinas and johnsons. I am just basing off 3 things. Efficacy, Reported Severe Adverse Reactions, and hmm lost my train of thought

The reason this speed was possible is because Researchers had been working on a vaccine for SARS (closely related virus), for which they did years of work. Funding was cut off after SARS proved to basically just peter out, due to far lower rates of transmission. But those years of work were built on in order to develop these vaccines. So the sentiment that these are totally experimental drugs rushed through from nothing in a year is false, but unfortunately that idea is widely spread because it feeds into the right and anti-vax narratives.

 

[cduggles]

I'll actually start a thread one day about my VERY unusual and aggressive experience with hep C.

Please do. This is a topic of interest to me. Thanks!
Back to COVID!

 

[ItzCritz]

The reason this speed was possible is because Researchers had been working on a vaccine for SARS (closely related virus), for which they did years of work. Funding was cut off after SARS proved to basically just peter out, due to far lower rates of transmission. But those years of work were built on in order to develop these vaccines. So the sentiment that these are totally experimental drugs rushed through from nothing in a year is false, but unfortunately that idea is widely spread because it feeds into the right and anti-vax narratives.

Wrote the bottom part first actually, but I had no idea tbh, I just always read the publicly released medical data and adverse reaction reports, and efficacy reports and make my own judgments.


(Semi off-topic but talks about my wife leading into the last paragraph ) I do not support any side in the U.S have not liked anyone president and congress is a broken mess. I have views that go hard into both rights and left. Right are my Fiscal\economy views and 2nd amendment views are hard hard right. And TOUGH border control, AND TOUGH FOREIGN POLICY on CHINA (However I do want immigration reform to make it possible to come here....It's a grey area being on both sides of a similar yet different issue on opposite aisles ANYWAYS I am a reasonable easygoing guy haha hate politics, follow it, but won't argue with anyone MY opinions my own, and ill never down yours.. My views on the left are for reforming the judicial system, and immigration system reform (My wife lives in the Philippines and with pandemic haven't seen her in a year, moving there when borders open, because it'll take 2 years to get her here through our bullshit) Programs to help those who otherwise couldn't go to college go. More affordable healthcare (not MEDICARE FOR ALL that's too socialist for a center guy like me) decriminalizing drugs (not legalizing) and sending to rehab, not prison save tax dollars.

So in the end I am thankful for the vaccine because I think my long wait to see her is finally coming to an end... maybe another 6 months to go which is nothing!!! PH is slowly trying to greenlight VaCCINATED tourists. "Whoa, BUT CRITZ you are married why can't you see her!?!??! WHAT ARE YOU HIDING" Great question, but sadly the Philippines don't give a fuck unless we have a child together there Only other way in, is for us to enter the Country together through Custom's and we've tried logistically figuring it out, we just can't financially do it. fly her to Ma Cao or Tai wan, and meet her there. Just to expensivefor us SO I am desperately THANKFUL FOR THE VACCINE speeding up when I can see her again.. she saved me man, I would of never escaped the void of my addiction, without her unconditional genuine self. AA told me I was being dumb, but it was the right move in our case.

*** TOPIC RELATED
ALL of you WHO got vaccinated or those who aren't anti-vaxxers, but chose not to get one for one reason or another I support that choice, yet don't spread let's go back to the dark age disinformation about childhood vaccines being poison and Using crystals or whatever...., THEY ARE SPREADING SERIOUS MISINFORMATION, vaccines dramatically raised the average lifespan for the entire planet. Yes, there is some bad history with them but isn't that the way with ANY TOPIC.

We really I mean REALLY don't want to go back to how it was before them... I am a zealot when it comes to what vaccines have done for the world. I hope the next time a pandemic hits we are more prepared than we were with covid 19. WE GOT OFF SO EASY, and the vaccine rates while lower than I hoped, are still A good percentage. DONT ever EVER give into or just stay quiet to the anti vaxxers fear mongering. I sincerely hope the vaccine knocks out the pandemic for good!