Conspiracies The Covid Narrative

[Asante]

I had a disastrous AstraZeneca shot, and they expected me to bend over and take another, so I committed a little medical fraud and i just now had a shot of Pfizer, almost without adverse effects, and one more Pfizer to go, so i'm going experimental not just by combining vaccines but also by taking a booster dose. My immunity will prolly be 99%.

In fact, Pfizer believes that a third, booster dose, will increase immune response another 10-20fold

A third Pfizer dose? The Covid-19 vaccine maker is studying booster shots.

Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla spoke with NBC News' Lester Holt about the next steps for the company's Covid-19 vaccine.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Jabberwocky]

yea but you have to catch covid first and whats the odds of that and then whats the odds of clots from covid and then you'll have the correct answer

true- in the UK with all the restrictons, 7% of the population has at some point tested positive for covid, and in the US apparently that number is 10%. (literally googled <country name> total number of coronavirus cases to calculate these numbers). we are seeing what happens with basically no restrictions (i.e. Modi claiming the problem had gone away) in india right now and its fucking horrendous. official numbers are reported to be under by an order of magnitude.

there are a large number of other adverse side effects of covid19, death being a pretty bad one, with long covid (which must be a disaster in countries with poor workers rights and sickness benefits) impacting 10-20% of those infected according to the UK ONS.

at this point, there is strong evidence that vaccines reduce transmisability, so others who are vaccinated are protecting you from all the nasty side effects of covid19 but obviously best protection from these is getting vaccinated yourself.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

true- in the UK with all the restrictons, 7% of the population has at some point tested positive for covid, and in the US apparently that number is 10%. (literally googled <country name> total number of coronavirus cases to calculate these numbers). we are seeing what happens with basically no restrictions (i.e. Modi claiming the problem had gone away) in india right now and its fucking horrendous. official numbers are reported to be under by an order of magnitude.

there are a large number of other adverse side effects of covid19, death being a pretty bad one, with long covid (which must be a disaster in countries with poor workers rights and sickness benefits) impacting 10-20% of those infected according to the UK ONS.

at this point, there is strong evidence that vaccines reduce transmisability, so others who are vaccinated are protecting you from all the nasty side effects of covid19 but obviously best protection from these is getting vaccinated yourself.

Yea but India is only going through it's second wave now, and they have a lot more people there than both the US and UK combined...nevermind the poverty there

Now when you make the decision to get the shot, all of those risks from the shot apply to you - but when you decide not to, that doesn't mean all the risks from catching covid apply to you - so when somebody says, "well it's better than catching covid", you're saying there's a 100% chance of you catching it as is there's a 100% chance you're getting the shot....but if i get neither the shot or covid, then what? then what if i do catch it, and most likely, my symptoms are mild, or maybe straight up asymptomatic, as is the majority of the cases....i don't think i should be frowned upon nor should anybody need to enter their personal medical records into a Big Tech database that they claim is "private" for a shot that is still considered "experimental" and is also liability-free and also lacks long-term safety studies. I refuse to participate in the workings of the surveillance state and to give up my right to privacy and medical decisions.

These shots also have not been proven to stop person to person transmission. That's still a fact until proven otherwise.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

Fauci Admits — Roughly half of NIH employees have chosen not to get vaccine…

40-50% of our employees are Not vaccinated National Institute of Health, CDC, FDA employees were offered the vaccine very early this year. &n…

citizenfreepress.com

so you mean to tell me 40% to 50% that work at the CDC and FDA have NOT gotten the shot?


but im the outlier here, who's out of my mind, for not wanting to get the shot

think about that

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yea but India is only going through it's second wave now, and they have a lot more people there than both the US and UK combined...nevermind the poverty there

thats why you look at percentage of population not brute numbers.

and tbh as an outsider india and the US don't seem that different. granted the extremes of poverty in india are a little more extreme than the US, but under trump you both had very nutty characters in charge, both have insane levels of wealth inequality and environmental pollution. i've lived in the states and used to visit twice a year. not been to india but can't imagine going would change my perception. only difference is, as the wealthiest country in the world, the US has no excuses.

Now when you make the decision to get the shot, all of those risks from the shot apply to you

yes i understand that. those incredibly minimal risks. i don't understand why they are unacceptable, but the much higher risks of getting severely ill upon contracting covid are acceptable.

i have never claimed there is a 100% chance of getting covid. i pointed to figures between 7-10% of people who have caught it so far in the UK and the US in the post you just quoted, so why do you think i'm claiming your chance of getting covid is 100%?

but if i get neither the shot or covid, then what?

you can't guarantee you won't get covid unless you literally never interact with another human being. its not a choice.

even if you get it and are asymptomatic, you still pose a threat to those around you that the shot would decrease. its about responsibility to society as well as personal risk.

re your point about anything about these vaccines being proven: technically nothing in science is ever proven. it is logically impossible to deduce exactly which model, out of the infinite number of possibilities, instantiates the axioms (data, or reltionships between data points) we have. all we get is data and new data. the data on the vaccines so far shows that they reduce transmission and biologically plausible mechanisms have been proposed for why this isn't the case. so yes, these shots have not been proven to reduce transmission, it doesn't mean that its not true (also, logically, truth is undefineable, tarski's undefineability of truth is one of my favourite theorems, i digress). you can say the same about gravity, semiconductors, antibiotics.

this is the case even where we have a formalism that admits proof, which theoretical physics just about has but that life sciences absolutely do not.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

i have never claimed there is a 100% chance of getting covid. i pointed to figures between 7-10% of people who have caught it so far in the UK and the US in the post you just quoted, so why do you think i'm claiming your chance of getting covid is 100%?

I don't think that you think that....im just saying, in an absolute sense, they're comparing purely on the 100% chance of catching covid, which isn't really a fair comparison - maybe in the absolute sense that you're getting the shot, you're taking a chance, i'd say, for sure


nothing is guaranteed, but why would i possibly make myself sick intentionally, possibly have a reaction to the shot, when there's a good chance i wont catch covid to begin with? makes no sense to me but if it makes sense to the rest of ya, have at it : )

 

[Jabberwocky]

I don't think that you think that....im just saying, in an absolute sense, they're comparing purely on the 100% chance of catching covid, which isn't really a fair comparison - maybe in the absolute sense that you're getting the shot, you're taking a chance, i'd say, for sure

do you honestly think that exactly these options weren't weighed up and probabilities balanced by experts before they made the recommendation to go ahead with the programme? do you think they were wrong or just that their stats don't apply to you? how have you assessed that there's a good chance you won't get covid? they wouldn't have had data on the exact reactions or rates but they would have expected some adverse reactions due to vaccines and incorporated that into their predictions.

every time you interact with another person indoors you are at risk of contracting covid, even if every interaction carries a minimal risk. so if you only ever interact with people out of doors and never go in any shops etc and never allow anyone else in your house then fine.

i live in the inner city of a major urban centre and the rates have been consistently high throughout- there have been multiple rounds of surge testing just roads away from me. my track record with viral infections is losing years of my life and my mental health to post viral fatigue so taking my chances with a 10-20% chance of another round of that is just dumb.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I wonder just how many people electing not to get vaccinated don’t personally accept any responsibility for what happens to more vulnerable people in the community who contract Covid and have a far higher risk of complications or mortality.

The emerging evidence from several countries is that there is a strong correlation between number of people vaccinated and the rate of transmission. Herd immunity extinguishes the vectors across which isolated cases of Covid might spread and turn into clusters (which might ultimately become waves).

Given the unchecked disease seems to have led to the deaths of 500k people above the statistically expected death rate you’d think most socially minded people would want to do all they can to stop being a vector for further transmission.

Is there anyone here who genuinely thinks that is simply not their concern?

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

do you honestly think that exactly these options weren't weighed up and probabilities balanced by experts before they made the recommendation to go ahead with the programme? do you think they were wrong or just that their stats don't apply to you? how have you assessed that there's a good chance you won't get covid? they wouldn't have had data on the exact reactions or rates but they would have expected some adverse reactions due to vaccines and incorporated that into their predictions.

every time you interact with another person indoors you are at risk of contracting covid, even if every interaction carries a minimal risk. so if you only ever interact with people out of doors and never go in any shops etc and never allow anyone else in your house then fine.

i live in the inner city of a major urban centre and the rates have been consistently high throughout- there have been multiple rounds of surge testing just roads away from me. my track record with viral infections is losing years of my life and my mental health to post viral fatigue so taking my chances with a 10-20% chance of another round of that is just dumb.

That's cool...yea I hear ya, I live pretty urban too, so I get what you're saying...I just see it differently in my case

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

I wonder just how many people electing not to get vaccinated don’t personally accept any responsibility for what happens to more vulnerable people in the community who contract Covid and have a far higher risk of complications or mortality.

The emerging evidence from several countries is that there is a strong correlation between number of people vaccinated and the rate of transmission. Herd immunity extinguishes the vectors across which isolated cases of Covid might spread and turn into clusters (which might ultimately become waves).

Given the unchecked disease seems to have led to the deaths of 500k people above the statistically expected death rate you’d think most socially minded people would want to do all they can to stop being a vector for further transmission.

Is there anyone here who genuinely thinks that is simply not their concern?

well they don't even know how long these shots protect you for anyway


ya know this is also about the time they said cases would most likely be going down anyway.....that's like saying your closer won the baseball game for you, even though you were already leading 3-1 going into the 9th inning

 

[Jabberwocky]

ya know this is also about the time they said cases would most likely be going down anyway.....that's like saying your closer won the baseball game for you, even though you were already leading 3-1 going into the 9th inning

who is they? by any chance the same people now saying you should take the vaccine? either way, what assumptions were those predictions based on?

i never heard such a prediction and i've been working with people involved deeply in research in this area right from the start. we still predict that eventually it will go the way of the common cold, but that's clearly not happened yet.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

who is they? by any chance the same people now saying you should take the vaccine? either way, what assumptions were those predictions based on?

i never heard such a prediction and i've been working with people involved deeply in research in this area right from the start. we still predict that eventually it will go the way of the common cold, but that's clearly not happened yet.

idk...yea probably some of those guys...you'll have to ask them

it was probably the same guys who said you should leave your packages out on your doorstep for 3 days before you pick them up because it might have the covid on it

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

Yea I've heard that a few times... Don't forget too, even last summer was pretty mild overall and then it took off again once the holidays came and the indoor gatherings started up... But yea I've heard that a few times that it would run until spring and summer 2021 where it would start to quiet down...but yea you'll all say it was the shots that saved the world

And ya know what, I got a question for all you IV drug users? Are you guys all caught up on your hep A and B shots? You'll have to show your hep A and B passport before you come to my store if I hear you're an IV drug user...just letting you know

 

[JackARoe]

I think vaccines are good science. They got rid of some nasty diseases. I mean even anitbiotics, if we knew about them 52 million people would not have died from the Black Plague.

But speaking of science one of the issues that irks me is keeping some science out. I believe I had COVID in Nov 2019. I had just come back from Canada was all over even took my FIL to te casino's. So Thanksgiving week I had a chest cold fever a little breathing issues. I remember thinking I have not had a chest cold in years, since high school so it will go away. I remember my thoughts. I slept all week. 2 weeks later COVID was all over the news. I have to deal with logic for my job working as a database developer. I deal with money and there is no room for double speak. So I got annoyed at the lack of antibody tests and steering clear of that talk. People were getting tested for COVID a miillion times. We should know WHO has had it already based off of science. And based off of that same science the notion that a person that had COVID still needs a vaccine makes no sense Not even in the mutation science. I believe a person who has had COVID is as protected as a person that had shingles in relation to their virus. Very rarely do people get the same virus twice. My own doctor told me since I had shingles she does not think I need a vaccine for it.

So the notion of just do it because we tell you too never sits well with me. I believe I had COVID, have antibodies and do not need a vaccine.

I also view this hot box issue like abortion. It took me time to figure out what was eating me. Like abortion I believe it is the person's choice. Anti abortion people put the guilt trip that they are killing a person. People that judge others because they did not get a vaccine and guilt tripping that we don't care seems similar. Guilt tripping is a bigger sin.

My one friend's mother 93, got the first shot, ended up in the hospital and died 3 days later. She cooked dinner 4 nights earlier. And my friend said that neither his sister brother or doctor would even consider that the vaccine killed her with the side effect. She got the shot and got sick and died. Now I know she was 93 and people die of things. But this seems to be a direct correlation. My parents 88 got both shots and felt nothing.

So judge not!!! Let people be. Don't guilt trip them and I need still need a logical reason of why someone who has had COVID should get a vaccine. Again the mutation thing does not work in this case. To stomp on my friends grief is not the way to approach people that do not want a vaccine. He is in a band too and caught shit from the other players bragging about their vaccine. Not compassionate at all.

I also am almost never around people lately. Never go out to eat or in crowds. So for now no vaccine for me for now and I will wear my mask to not spread germs (also good science)

 

[Jabberwocky]

April 19, 2021

"I think you're going to start to see cases come down quite dramatically as we get into May," Dr. Scott Gottlieb, the former FDA chief, cited warming weather in the U.S. and further progress on Covid vaccinations as reasons for his prediction.

ya know this is also about the time they said cases would most likely be going down anyway.....that's like saying your closer won the baseball game for you, even though you were already leading 3-1 going into the 9th inning

if you were referring to the prediction cited by @The Wizard of the Creek then it explicitly mentioned vaccines as contributing to the decrease in cases so your analogy doesn't work.

 

[Xorkoth]

I wonder just how many people electing not to get vaccinated don’t personally accept any responsibility for what happens to more vulnerable people in the community who contract Covid and have a far higher risk of complications or mortality.

The emerging evidence from several countries is that there is a strong correlation between number of people vaccinated and the rate of transmission. Herd immunity extinguishes the vectors across which isolated cases of Covid might spread and turn into clusters (which might ultimately become waves).

Given the unchecked disease seems to have led to the deaths of 500k people above the statistically expected death rate you’d think most socially minded people would want to do all they can to stop being a vector for further transmission.

Is there anyone here who genuinely thinks that is simply not their concern?

I was working on my friend's farm last weekend with a health care worker hippie chick who expressed the belief to me that vaccine should be a personal choice, and that the responsibility lies on each individual to ensure they take care of themselves enough to not be immunocompromised. I thought this was a strange and rather self-centered view. it relies on the assumption that everyone, if they take care of themselves, can eliminate the risk of serious disease from COVID... essentially it is saying, if you get really sick from it, it's your fault for not taking care of yourself. Yet this is demonstrably not the case. Many otherwise healthy people have genetic conditions, or cancers, or so on, that do not allow them to not be immunocompromised. Not to mention the elderly.

And ya know what, I got a question for all you IV drug users? Are you guys all caught up on your hep A and B shots? You'll have to show your hep A and B passport before you come to my store if I hear you're an IV drug user...just letting you know

This isn't really a fair comparison. Hepatitis isn't transmissible by breathing, so unless said person is walking into your store randomly stabbing people with used needles, it's not the same.

 

[aemetha]

I was working on my friend's farm last weekend with a health care worker hippie chick who expressed the belief to me that vaccine should be a personal choice, and that the responsibility lies on each individual to ensure they take care of themselves enough to not be immunocompromised. I thought this was a strange and rather self-centered view. it relies on the assumption that everyone, if they take care of themselves, can eliminate the risk of serious disease from COVID... essentially it is saying, if you get really sick from it, it's your fault for not taking care of yourself. Yet this is demonstrably not the case. Many otherwise healthy people have genetic conditions, or cancers, or so on, that do not allow them to not be immunocompromised. Not to mention the elderly.

This. I can't help but draw parallels with Typhoid Mary. Public opinion was overwhelmingly in support of her being quarantined indefinitely (for the remaining 23 years of her life) after she returned to cooking for a living after her first quarantine. Have American values changed that much since then? Or is this a case of it being different if it's happening to someone else?

 

[Xorkoth]

Also reminds me of American Nurses Union coming out against the CDC's lifting mask restrictions for fully vaccinated people. Because they want vaccination to be a choice and some nurses have decided not to get it, so the union is mad because it "puts frontline healthcare workers at risk". I'm sorry, but if you're a frontline medical worker, and you refuse to get the vaccine, that's on you. They should be spending their energy trying to get these nurses to vaccinate, not trying to force everyone who has done their part and is now immune to still have to act like they haven't because some people who are constantly exposed to risk, and constantly expose those they care for to risk, decided not to vaccinate themselves (which also puts the elderly and other vulnerable people they care for at risk because of their choice). I guess that's their fault for choosing to be so old and sick, though.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Apparently by June 1st everyone will be pulling off their masks. ( The vaccinated ). The Doctors in my neck of the woods are saying that the vaccinated need only wear their masks on two occasions. One being in a medical building and the other being in an area where fresh air is not circulated ( such as an airliner.)

Since we aren't wearing placards on our back to identify whether we have had the vaccine or not no one will know whether one has had it or not.

The un-vaccinated will also be walking around without masks as they don't care now and they might not have cared ever.

How safe does everyone feel knowing you will be coming face to face with the un-vaxxed? Asking everyone you meet obviously won't work. Are you still going to social distance?

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

if you were referring to the prediction cited by @The Wizard of the Creek then it explicitly mentioned vaccines as contributing to the decrease in cases so your analogy doesn't work.

i was not