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Conspiracies The Covid Narrative

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cduggles said:
I’m guessing you’re not close?
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Lol we talk multiple times a week. The amount of politics around this issue is insane. After the election when they finally adjusted the pcr cycle counts, to stop the insane level of false positives I had hoped the campaign was over. At the end of the day when you give anyone that amount of power, there is no way they are gonna give it up easily. But I digress, nothing we can do to stop this, and I sure as shit am not going to be in the trials for some concoction no matter how much midwit wokies screech at me.
 
No thankyou, I'll be keeping my DNA and RNA intact and zipped up. Just say no to experimental mutagenic unproven bullshit.
 
alasdairm said:
is there any evidence that the mrna covid vaccines affect dna in any way?

alasdair
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nope. and nobody who has made this claim has ever proposed a biological mechanism by which it could happen, when asked by me at least.

DNA is generally found in the nucleus, though you do get bits of circulating DNA, either message passing or left over after apoptosis- this cell free DNA is the basis for some proposals for blood tests for cancer. mRNA is translated into proteins by ribosomes, which are located in the cytoplasm. for the most naive mechanism by which mRNA could alter DNA in a meaningful sense it would need to enter the nucleus, be reverse transcribed, then insert itself into the genome. no one making these claims has offered a plausible mechanism by which even one of these steps could occur upon administration of an mRNA vaccine, nor have they offered any explanation based on a different approach.

interestingly, a recent paper has suggested that the reason for some patients testng positive for SARS-COV2 long after their initial diagnosis is that the virus may have actually incorporated it into the host genome. this is based on cell culture experiments so take with a pinch of salt, but what i took away from it is that, if you're scared of getting your DNA mutated by this virus, take the vaccine (as no one can elucidate how the vaccine would do this) so you minimise your chances of being infected with it in the first place.
 
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Because there is a strong political slant on said beliefs that are being pushed, that's why. I mean of course there is on both sides, I don't mean to say that there isn't, but the anti-vax propaganda is extremely political in nature. You can, in general, be assured that people suggesting that the vaccines mutate your DNA are also suggesting a number of other things in a rather predictable set of viewpoints.

alasdairm said:
is there any evidence that the mrna covid vaccines affect dna in any way?

alasdair
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No, there isn't. In fact mRNA vaccines appear quite a bit safer than previous vaccine technology, since they use the very mechanism by which your immune system produces antibodies when exposed to actual pathogens.
 
alasdairm said:
i'm curious to understand why somebody would believe that it does...
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i don't think that anyone with any scientific literacy believes it does- you can find MDs etc claiming it does but they are doing so in bad faith and usually have their own profit agenda (there's loads of examples in the conspirituality podcast, i didn't realise just how much money was to be made here).

of course, they claim that the vaccine companies have a profit agenda- which they clearly do. but they also have oversight, however faulty the mechanisms might be.

Xorkoth said:
You can, in general, be assured that people suggesting that the vaccines mutate your DNA are also suggesting a number of other things in a rather predictable set of viewpoints.
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completely agree. 9 times out of 10 you can correctly predict a whole host of viewpoints based on a single piece of data- this isn't exclusive to vaccine views, we're just predictable, like apparently you can tell how likely someone is to claim on home insurance by whether they buy fresh fennel (citation: hello world by hannah fry, proper reference will be in there).
 
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Xorkoth said:
No, there isn't. In fact mRNA vaccines appear quite a bit safer than previous vaccine technology, since they use the very mechanism by which your immune system produces antibodies when exposed to actual pathogens.
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I am not going to dispute the political perversion of discussion of this topic, by both sides.

However by current appearances mRNA vaccines are 'not quite a bit safer' than previous vaccine technology. The evidence is pointing towards them being 10 fold more dangerous than traditional vaccines possibly even higher.
To put it in perspective look at the number of serious adverse events and deaths reported for influenza vaccine in the USA (roughly 150mln doses) you can count them on one hand now look at the number of serious adverse events reported for the mRNA vaccines (moderna and pfizer in the USA). SAEs for the mRNA vaccines are occurring at least 50x the rate of the influenza vaccine in the same period with roughly the same numbers exposed. On the face of it the mRNA vaccines are highly reactive, rough and don't look great from a safety perspective, plus it looks like the efficacy claims are hugely overstated.

I am not going to weigh into whether vaccine mRNA payloads can integrate into host DNA via reverse transcription vs coronavirus being able to integrate. It may but equally it may not. Anybody who actually understands practical biology knows that surprising things happen more often than the claimed state of knowledge would suggest.

Currently the papers around this area are not convincing because they make some huge and the proof they offer usually involves a cheat to use HIV reverse transcriptase or over expressed LINE-1 derived reverse transcriptase to force the thing work reliably.
What goes for coronavirus +ve and -ve sense RNA in the cytosol would also apply if true to the vaccines -ve sense RNA.
Personally I think all this DNA modification nonsense, is just complete nonsense and a convenient strawman put up to get knocked down. The idea that either corona itself or the vaccines integrate and modify host DNA in the real world is all vanishingly rare and unlikely.

They are trying to explain a problem with PCR without looking at the real elephant in the room, the PCR test is not a diagnostic test for infection. A much simpler explanation for rare enduring positivity to PCR testing is that coronavirus RNA fragments can lurk unseen long after competent virus has all gone, meaning the PCR test is too sensitive. You can see this in every infected person good luck with culturing any live virus (the real easy to culture SARS-2-CoV) out of samples from anyone with a PCR Ct above 25.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.12.422516v1.full.pdf

Science should be spending more time looking at the toxicology of spike and look at plausible mechanisms by which the all the coronavirus vaccines including the mRNA vaccines are leading to disproportionately frequent adverse events, some of which are serious and fatal.

The risk benefit trade off where the vaccine is safer than the disease goes completely the wrong when the vaccine recipient has an individual low risk of severe outcome from coronavirus and the vaccine is 50 times more dangerous than any licensed vaccine. The vast majority of the people posting here about having taken the vaccine....those here that have gone for it obviously worked their numbers out in consultation with their physician rather than out sourcing doing any thinking to someone else....Er right


Astrazeneca and J&J adenovirus vector vaccine are obviously pretty much dogs, low efficacy, compounded lethal side effects which make them unsuitable for anyone who doesn't have an extreme risk from covid, so it seems is the russian vector vaccine Sputnik.
leaves no good vaccine choices, mRNA vaccines which are rough and untested long term, Vector vaccines like Astra Zeneca which are quasi-ineffective with dubious trial data, Novavax heavily adjuvanted subpart vaccine which is badly underperfoming in India and is also throwing concerning safety signals (in general subpart vaccines like the pneumonia vaccine are weak and limited duration). Whole inactivated vaccine like Valneva and one of the Chinese vaccines, great in theory but look at what happened with ADE and SARS 1 whole vaccines.
Antiviral vaccines that work against respiratory transmission and are pretty safe are all live attenuated.

Logically it is still wait and see, My personal calculated risk of death or serious bad outcome due to covid is now roughly one in 10 million and falling fast.

If you can't do math I say go for it. Most immunologists are in the same camp.
 
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so please help those of us who can't do maths- your personal chance of severe complications is 1 out of 10 million chance of serious complications (and i consider exhibiting symptoms for more than 12 weeks to be included in this) is a massive underestimate. how well do you think your figure generalises to the rest of the population?

simple calculation- probability of being infected with SARS-COV2*probability of symptoms severe enough to get tested*probability of long covid
numbers, all but the last (based on prevalence of long covid according to ONS, so not even including chance of death/weeks on a ventilator etc) pulled out my arse: (1/1000)*(1/10)*(1/10) = 1 out of 100k

using that, expected number of severe complications for UK population would be 670. we know that more people have died than that, and more people have got long covid than that. so my probabilities are vast underestimates (this is actually by design to make my point)- so the chance of major complications is significantly larger than 1/100k, not smaller than 1/10 million.

this is a back of the envelope with no accounting for individual differences or precautions taken, and i make no claims to know anything about epidemiology, but at least i've showed my working.

also, really odd to post a reference that claims the complete opposite of what's stated in a post. whether or not the PCR test results are due to old viral RNA, it is well known that viral genomes make up to 10% of our DNA so not beyond the realm of possibility that SARS-COV2 does the same. though probably more complicated for an RNA virus, even seeing it in cell culture confirms it is possible.
 
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Not me. I've considered it, and I might. Instead I avoid non vaccinated vulnerable family members. The way this has become a part of the culture war here in the USA, associated with political parties, rushed thru, just doesn't sit right.
 
Am I unreasonable? I trust scientists especially millions worldwide. But this is sketchy
 
novaveritas said:
roll the dice. this is probably rather important. you take your choice but make your choice with your eyes wide open.

In the new study, the researchers created a “pseudovirus” that was surrounded by SARS-CoV-2 classic crown of spike proteins, but did not contain any actual virus. Exposure to this pseudovirus resulted in damage to the lungs and arteries of an animal model—proving that the spike protein alone was enough to cause disease. Tissue samples showed inflammation in endothelial cells lining the pulmonary artery walls.

The team then replicated this process in the lab, exposing healthy endothelial cells (which line arteries) to the spike protein. They showed that the spike protein damaged the cells by binding ACE2. This binding disrupted ACE2’s molecular signaling to mitochondria (organelles that generate energy for cells), causing the mitochondria to become damaged and fragmented.

www.salk.edu

The novel coronavirus’ spike protein plays additional key role in illness - Salk Institute for Biological Studies

LA JOLLA—Scientists have known for a while that SARS-CoV-2’s distinctive “spike” proteins help the virus infect its host by latching on to healthy cells. Now, a major new study shows that the virus spike proteins (which behave very differently than those safely encoded by vaccines) also play a...
www.salk.edu
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Christ on a bike...

Don’t start with animal studies and this shit... seriously... come on. 😂😂😂😂

Honestly, I am laughing so hard I can’t even reply properly.
 
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